The Queen of the South thread

[Sloop John B]

I didn't pipe up particularly in support of fan representation. I like the principle, but in practice, I'd share some of the reservations that others do.

Given that the trust is so far short of the required number of shares, I can't really see that there would be much of a mandate as things stand.

What got my goat however, was reading post after post about how wonderful this board is. Someone even said that they wouldn't ride roughshod over fan opinion, when the reality is that that's precisely what happened in the most stark way imaginable.

I know that people want to let things go, but it's hard not to view the board's actions in the context of that event. Even the much lauded profits of the last year would have probably been slimmer, had other Scottish boards acted as spinelessly as ours in 2012.

I'm not churlish enough to deny the good things that have happened - the Arena is terrific.

I like to think however that there's a more detached and critical attitude to those in charge of our club, than is evident in the sycophantic toadying evident on this thread.

So apart from the Arena, King George V, Reopening a long disused terrace, various other ground improvements, hosting a concert, a Ramsdens Cup, a promotion, getting a return on youth players, 2 4th place finishes in a row and consecutive profits what have this board actually done?

I am happy to call them out when It's due but looking at just about every aspect compared to what It was like it can't be denied that they have done a good job. BRALT pish aside.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Sloop John B

[qos_75]

So apart from the Arena, King George V, Reopening a long disused terrace, various other ground improvements, hosting a concert, a Ramsdens Cup, a promotion, getting a return on youth players, 2 4th place finishes in a row and consecutive profits what have this board actually done?

.

Are you the Judean People' Front?

[Sloop John B]

Are you the Judean People' Front?

Splitters!

[Monkey Tennis]

So apart from the Arena, King George V, Reopening a long disused terrace, various other ground improvements, hosting a concert, a Ramsdens Cup, a promotion, getting a return on youth players, 2 4th place finishes in a row and consecutive profits what have this board actually done?

I am happy to call them out when It's due but looking at just about every aspect compared to what It was like it can't be denied that they have done a good job. BRALT pish aside.

So every success, is down entirely to the brilliance of the board.

On the playing front we've been in much the same place for most of the last decade. I'm not moaning - it's fine. We're punching pretty much at our weight, rather than wildly above it though.

The jury is out about the concerts. I welcome them my self, but I don't know that the project is yet considered an unqualified success.

Re-opening Terregles Street was a no-Brainer, given what was required. Pity they kept it shut when St Johnstone visited last year.

The profits were aided by the presence of Rangers, something that would probably not have been the case had others seen the issue as our board did.

The interests of fans were utterly neglected again this season when our Boxing Day fixture got moved.

I'm not for storming the main stand and staging a coup here. The board have got plenty right.

Let's try and provide some balance, rather than a eulogy though.

[qos_75]

That's right Reg.

[palmy_cammy]

A similar run without home games to the one this winter lead to the begging bowls having to come out to pay the wages under a previous regime. No mention of that this season.

Whether or not the projects were funded by Rangers (and Hearts, and Hibs) or not is fairly irrelevant. The board still had to have the foresight to invest it in said projects and not instead use it on a £1000 per week contract for Stewart Kean.

Of course they've made mistakes but none that I feel would be rectified or avoided by a fan joining the Board.

[Monkey Tennis]

A similar run without home games to the one this winter lead to the begging bowls having to come out to pay the wages under a previous regime. No mention of that this season.

Whether or not the projects were funded by Rangers (and Hearts, and Hibs) or not is fairly irrelevant. The board still had to have the foresight to invest it in said projects and not instead use it on a £1000 per week contract for Stewart Kean.

Of course they've made mistakes but none that I feel would be rectified or avoided by a fan joining the Board.

I'm not arguing with much of that.

Neither however, am I ignoring the irony of the board receiving praise for profits that had a lot to do with Rangers being detained for a while in the lower leagues.

[palmy_cammy]

I'm not arguing with much of that.Neither however, am I ignoring the irony of the board receiving praise for profits that had a lot to do with Rangers being detained for a while in the lower leagues.

You are however choosing to ignore the fact Hearts and Hibs have played as much of a part as Rangers in boosting our finances, not to mention reaching the playoffs twice and hosting St Johnstone in the cup.

You have a chip on your shoulder regarding Rangers which is fine, I despise them as well. It's a pretty good example of why an individual with their own specific agendas shouldn't be trusted to make decisions on behalf of the club though!

[Homer Thompson]

I didn't pipe up particularly in support of fan representation. I like the principle, but in practice, I'd share some of the reservations that others do.

Given that the trust is so far short of the required number of shares, I can't really see that there would be much of a mandate as things stand.

What got my goat however, was reading post after post about how wonderful this board is. Someone even said that they wouldn't ride roughshod over fan opinion, when the reality is that that's precisely what happened in the most stark way imaginable.

I know that people want to let things go, but it's hard not to view the board's actions in the context of that event. Even the much lauded profits of the last year would have probably been slimmer, had other Scottish boards acted as spinelessly as ours in 2012.

I'm not churlish enough to deny the good things that have happened - the Arena is terrific.

I like to think however that there's a more detached and critical attitude to those in charge of our club, than is evident in the sycophantic toadying evident on this thread.

Yet, your underlying opinion seems based on one decision that was 4 years ago and anyone who disagrees is guilty of "sycophantic toadying"?

[Monkey Tennis]

You are however choosing to ignore the fact Hearts and Hibs have played as much of a part as Rangers in boosting our finances, not to mention reaching the playoffs twice and hosting St Johnstone in the cup.

You have a chip on your shoulder regarding Rangers which is fine, I despise them as well. It's a pretty good example of why an individual with their own specific agendas shouldn't be trusted to make decisions on behalf of the club though!

I think that my loathing of the OF is entirely rational, but if you wish to characterise it as a "chip on the shoulder", fine.

I'm just less willing than some to forget that supporters' views on something were actively sought, then completely ignored, followed by the flimsiest and most contradictory justification.

As I've said, I'm not pressing for greater fan representation. I was just irked by the unanimous awe in which the current board appeared - on the basis of this thread - to be held.

I don't think that complete trust in them to do the right thing is sensible, or justified.

[Monkey Tennis]

Yet, your underlying opinion seems based on one decision that was 4 years ago and anyone who disagrees is guilty of "sycophantic toadying"?

I think the tone of several posts was indeed sycophantic.

I've had other gripes about the board, but yes, that's the major one. Over the piece though, they've done well.

The emergent idea that they're above question however, is not healthy.

[Sloop John B]

A similar run without home games to the one this winter lead to the begging bowls having to come out to pay the wages under a previous regime. No mention of that this season.

Whether or not the projects were funded by Rangers (and Hearts, and Hibs) or not is fairly irrelevant. The board still had to have the foresight to invest it in said projects and not instead use it on a £1000 per week contract for Stewart Kean.

Of course they've made mistakes but none that I feel would be rectified or avoided by a fan joining the Board.

Of course you look at the issue of the bams at the game and there could be a club official defending them for 'Creating an atmosphere' (Like some people still do)

I'm not arguing with much of that. Neither however, am I ignoring the irony of the board receiving praise for profits that had a lot to do with Rangers being detained for a while in the lower leagues.

On top of Cammy's point, you can also point to the better league prize money, other income that wasn't there 4 years ago. I'm sure there are other clubs who have hosted Rangers in recent memory that aren't exactly financially stable. It's a help for sure but I don't think 'The Blue Pound' has a big an impact as it is made out to be by Rangers fans. You still have to make the correct decisions in hiring personnel, setting budgets and trying to get less dependent on matchday tickets.

[Monkey Tennis]

Of course you look at the issue of the bams at the game and there could be a club official defending them for 'Creating an atmosphere' (Like some people still do)

On top of Cammy's point, you can also point to the better league prize money, other income that wasn't there 4 years ago. I'm sure there are other clubs who have hosted Rangers in recent memory that aren't exactly financially stable. It's a help for sure but I don't think 'The Blue Pound' has a big an impact as it is made out to be by Rangers fans. You still have to make the correct decisions in hiring personnel, setting budgets and trying to get less dependent on matchday tickets.

And at no point have I suggested otherwise.

How many times do I need to concede that the board have done some things well, before people stop telling me it?

I just feel that the picture being provided, lacks balance.

In dismissing the idea of fan representation, there was more than an air of "Napoleon is always right" floating around the thread.

[Sloop John B]

And at no point have I suggested otherwise. How many times do I need to concede that the board have done some things well, before people stop telling me it? I just feel that the picture being provided, lacks balance. In dismissing the idea of fan representation, there was more than an air of "Napoleon is always right" floating around the thread.

Your seeing things that aren't there, you have pointed to certain examples where they have made mistakes, they could have been preventable but they would not have been changed by having one person on a committee. If the board do something terrible I'll call them out but outside of the Rangers fiasco there isn't very much that I can think of that particularly bothers me.

The idea of fan representation is flawed for reasons mentioned before if it's just one person on a board or owning an entire club. Unless they are putting up a serious amount of money to make it work which at a club of our size is unlikely then it is a pipe dream IMO. Getting money off the council to do it suggests that it is nothing other than a token gesture.

[Monkey Tennis]

The idea of fan representation is flawed for reasons mentioned before if it's just one person on a board or owning an entire club. Unless they are putting up a serious amount of money to make it work which at a club of our size is unlikely then it is a pipe dream IMO. Getting money off the council to do it suggests that it is nothing other than a token gesture.

Why are you saying that to me, as if I've been arguing that this must happen?

I've not.

I said early on that I'd have reservations and that the move lacked a mandate.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Monkey Tennis

[qos_75]

Clearly the board don't get everything right. However, they are not doing too badly.

I also think they have started to get more of the bigger commercial decisions right than wrong, particularly over the last couple of years. This for me is a game changer in terms of mid-to-long term sustainability.

Fan representation on the board is no guarantee the board will not f**k you over. Just ask Dundee and Livi fans about that. So in that respect I am not sure what it really adds. However, if they believe it to be a benefit then so be it.

Each board since the end of the Harkness era has taken the club forward. Maybe not always as quick as we would have liked, but forward nevertheless. I think we have had one season out of the Championship in the last 14 or 15.

Even then, the season in the Second division was stunning, breaking records left, right and centre. I take on board the season before under MacPherson was like a throw-back to Harkness, but that was a blip.

Any club worth their salt will have proper communication channels with the fans but if this enhances it, then fair enough. At the moment I think the board are an 8 out of 10.

I am more of a cup half full man than a half empty.

Cheers!

[Doonhamer doon south]

So apart from the Arena, King George V, Reopening a long disused terrace, various other ground improvements, hosting a concert, a Ramsdens Cup, a promotion, getting a return on youth players, 2 4th place finishes in a row and consecutive profits what have this board actually done?

I am happy to call them out when It's due but looking at just about every aspect compared to what It was like it can't be denied that they have done a good job. BRALT pish aside.

totally agree

[Homer Thompson]

I think the tone of several posts was indeed sycophantic. I've had other gripes about the board, but yes, that's the major one. Over the piece though, they've done well. The emergent idea that they're above question however, is not healthy.

I think you're reading things that arent there. I dont recall anyone saying they were above question.

[stuarto2052]

The fans make a joint investment of approximately £450000 per year is this not worthy of representation? On the whole the fans are ignored until desperate situations arise like Save our South.

[topcat(The most tip top)]

I also see absolutely no need for fan representation on the board.

The current BOD are doing a fine job behind the scenes - just let them get on with it.

Or alternatively

"I see no need for fire extinguishers

We're not currently on fire"