The Queen of the South thread

[Doonhamer doon south]

Are you saying that we need to win every remaining game to be 4th.

Also that if we draw on Tuesday and thus are 4 points behind Raith with a game in hand 4th place is gone.

Really?

yes only because of the way fixtures are landing. We now have to better Raith and morton results. We can't afford to drop points now. We are still to play rangers again and we have hibs last day of the season i believe. Games against likes of alloa and Dumbarton must be convincing wins to keep the pressure on Raith.

My concern is that dropped points now will not be clawed back and I still for Fowler staying as manager but not being involved in the play off race will affect a lot of fans opinion of fowler. There are some on here who already had enough.

[Skyline Drifter]

In saying "we" SD, I was really just doing that thing fans do, of feeling a part of the club and speaking collectively. I suppose it's daft, but I hadn't realised a club tie was necessary for such indulgence. Do forgive me. As I recall, the away performance at Raith was a decent one and the defeat a tad unfortunate. The other two owed much though to our lack of enterprise and threat.

Really? You think we lacked "enterprise and threat" at St Mirren? Did you actually see the game?

I don't think there's any evidence at all that "we" treated those three away games as mountains which is why I questioned your conclusion. Your bizarre attempt to imply a them and us angle to my post is odd.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Skyline Drifter

[Monkey Tennis]

Really? You think we lacked "enterprise and threat" at St Mirren? Did you actually see the game?

I don't think there's any evidence at all that "we" treated those three away games as mountains which is why I questioned your conclusion. Your bizarre attempt to imply a them and us angle to my post is odd.

I wasn't at the game, but followed the coverage it subsequently received here and elsewhere.

I think I'm right in saying that Queens created few chances.

[Distant Doonhamer]

yes only because of the way fixtures are landing. We now have to better Raith and morton results. We can't afford to drop points now. We are still to play rangers again and we have hibs last day of the season i believe. Games against likes of alloa and Dumbarton must be convincing wins to keep the pressure on Raith.

My concern is that dropped points now will not be clawed back and I still for Fowler staying as manager but not being involved in the play off race will affect a lot of fans opinion of fowler. There are some on here who already had enough.

So we have to win every game to be 4th. Might as well chuck it in that case.

We clearly have to better Raith results. We only need to match morton`s results to stay 2 points ahead ahead of them.

None of that means we have to win every game.

[Skyline Drifter]

I wasn't at the game, but followed the coverage it subsequently received here and elsewhere. I think I'm right in saying that Queens created few chances.

I think you're wrong. As I did see it I think we can agree I'm better placed to judge that. St Mirren away was a pretty decent performance undone by poor finishing and a slightly harsh free kick well finished by Mallan. It would be fair to say we didn't offer a massive amount after falling behind and most of our good chances came when it was 0-0. Same is true at Raith actually. Our lack of threat to equalise in both games was disappointing but neither game was remotely approached as if there was any sort of mountain in front of us. Neither was Morton actually, we were just rotten that day.

The only games this year where I'd say it's fair to say we adopted a negative approach would be the trip to Ibrox and possibly the one to Easter Road. Even at Easter Road we lined up fairly positively for the first half although neither side created much. We certainly dropped back to protect a point later on in the game though (I didn't see the recent Falkirk one so can't comment on how we looked in that one).

EDITED to add the link to the St Mirren away match report on the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34952081

Whilst the BBC reports are not difficult to find errors in, the fact it lists us as having 8 efforts on goal, 4 of which were on target (compared to St Mirren's 6 and 2 respectively) and we had marginally more possession than them is pretty indicative that we didn't approach it as any sort of fixture to fear. We hit the woodwork twice in the game too. I presume those aren't included in the "on target" total.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Skyline Drifter

[RUSTY1111]

I wasn't at the game, but followed the coverage it subsequently received here and elsewhere.I think I'm right in saying that Queens created few chances.

Queens had decent chances up at Paisley but just couldn't take advantage of any of them. Pickard had two decent chances, as had Hutton with a close range header and Lyle had decent chances also. Russell had a good effort too.

[Monkey Tennis]

I think you're wrong. As I did see it I think we can agree I'm better placed to judge that. St Mirren away was a pretty decent performance undone by poor finishing and a slightly harsh free kick well finished by Mallan. It would be fair to say we didn't offer a massive amount after falling behind and most of our good chances came when it was 0-0. Same is true at Raith actually. Our lack of threat to equalise in both games was disappointing but neither game was remotely approached as if there was any sort of mountain in front of us. Neither was Morton actually, we were just rotten that day.

The only games this year where I'd say it's fair to say we adopted a negative approach would be the trip to Ibrox and possibly the one to Easter Road. Even at Easter Road we lined up fairly positively for the first half although neither side created much. We certainly dropped back to protect a point later on in the game though (I didn't see the recent Falkirk one so can't comment on how we looked in that one).

EDITED to add the link to the St Mirren away match report on the BBC. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/34952081

Whilst the BBC reports are not difficult to find errors in, the fact it lists us as having 8 efforts on goal, 4 of which were on target (compared to St Mirren's 6 and 2 respectively) and we had marginally more possession than them is pretty indicative that we didn't approach it as any sort of fixture to fear.

The same report speaks of "few chances" and by your own admission, we offered nothing in the last 70% of the game's duration.

Doesn't sound too swashbuckling to me.

[Skyline Drifter]

Queens had decent chances up at Paisley but just couldn't take advantage of any of them. Pickard had two decent chances, as had Hutton with a close range header and Lyle had decent chances also. Russell had a good effort too.

I forgot about Hutton missing the ball completely five yards out middle of goal. That won't even be in the goal attempts stats! You didn't mention Conroy hitting the bar with a late free kick or Russell looping an early effort onto the bar too.

[Skyline Drifter]

The same report speaks of "few chances" and by your own admission, we offered nothing in the last 70% of the game's duration. Doesn't sound too swashbuckling to me.

I didn't claim it to be swashbuckling. Don't be silly. We did however have a fair number of decent chances and should certainly have had at least a point. You said we approached the game negatively and created little. That was nonsense. I actually had forgotten how early their goal was in that game, I retract the comment about not threatening to equalise much in that game. We started both halves well and both Pickard and Lyle had good headed opportunities to equalise before Conroy's late free kick off the bar. Most of our other good chances were before they scored. Having good chances in the first 20 minutes though is not an indication of a negative approach. Quite the contrary.

[Monkey Tennis]

Having good chances in the first 20 minutes though is not an indication of a negative approach. Quite the contrary.

Our retreat into a cagey shell when suffering an early setback however, is evidence of just such an approach.

[Skyline Drifter]

Our retreat into a cagey shell when suffering an early setback however, is evidence of just such an approach.

Is that the best you can come up with? A suggestion that in your opinion, in a game you didn't see, we attempted to hold on to a point we didn't have once we fell behind despite a positive start? Are you reading this back before you post it?

[Broony88]

We have been nothing but negative on the whole in most of our games we are capable of winning this season. Games against Rovers, St Mirren, Morton and Falkirk we have usually had our better spells in the games once we have fallen behind desperately trying to savage a point. We are tactically set up not to lose and it is suicide at times in this league. A similar set up on Tuesday will more than likely lose us a good chance at fourth this season and come the summer Fowler will be under pressure with the board.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Broony88

[Monkey Tennis]

Is that the best you can come up with? A suggestion that in your opinion, in a game you didn't see, we attempted to hold on to a point we didn't have once we fell behind despite a positive start? Are you reading this back before you post it?

Of course I read it back.

I'm not suggesting that we dig in to protect non existent points. I'm suggesting that we lack belief and regard narrow defeats as acceptable, almost expected.

[Guest Flash]

We have been nothing but negative on the whole in most of our games we are capable of winning this season. Games against Rovers, St Mirren, Morton and Falkirk we have usually had our better spells in the games once we have fallen behind desperately trying to savage a point. We are tactically set up not to lose and it is suicide at times in this league. A similar set up on Tuesday will more than likely lose us a good chance at fourth this season and come the summer Fowler will be under pressure with the board.

The counter argument is that we have to set up not to lose in a lot of games because we lost Carmichael and Reilly in the summer. Don't think any of the other players we lost have affected our capability to attack.

I was wondering what was different from last season other than this and the only thing I can think of is that Skelton wasn't here. I wonder if Fowler is maybe a bit cautious and Skelton is even worse, meaning there is nothing to balance it up, in fact it goes further the other way. Might not be that, but it might be no coincidence that it seems to have got worse since Skelton arrived.

[palmy_cammy]

Despite Marshall being a capable deputy Holt had a far better final ball and had latterly added goals something Marshall is yet to offer.

Durnan was a threat at set pieces and without having the stats to hand I'm fairly sure scored more goals last season than his replacement Brownlie has this season (he's played far less games granted).

McShane and Kerr are both far better than any of our current midfield, in both a creative and goal scoring sense.

It's absolute nonsense to suggest we are only missing Reilly and Carmichael.

[NM_1919]

You'd think we were battling relegation the way half the folk are going on.

[Monkey Tennis]

Despite Marshall being a capable deputy Holt had a far better final ball and had latterly added goals something Marshall is yet to offer.

Durnan was a threat at set pieces and without having the stats to hand I'm fairly sure scored more goals last season than his replacement Brownlie has this season (he's played far less games granted).

McShane and Kerr are both far better than any of our current midfield, in both a creative and goal scoring sense.

It's absolute nonsense to suggest we are only missing Reilly and Carmichael.

We've missed the others plenty - McShane more than I'd appreciated would be the case.

For me though, the loss of Reilly has been absolutely huge. He wasn't necessarily the best finisher, but he was a brilliant front player at this level. His presence and industry enabled the whole team to play in a way we can't manage this season.

[Northfield 53]

We certainly cant afford to lose all three if we want 4th and Raith is necessarily the most important of the three. Its far from over if we happen to lose there though. We would be 7 behind with a game in hand against Dumbarton and a head to head at Palmerston to come.

Some big games ahead though. Once through these next three we will have 8 games left including trips to Ibrox and Easter Road where anything got would be a bonus. I have said previously with Raith finishing at Livi while we are at Easter Road and looking like they will have the better goal difference we probably need to get ourselves 4 points ahead going into the final week. Its going to be difficult. Could have done with St Mirren getting something today.

It is going to be difficult says to me that you are not confident we will make the top 4

[Guest Flash]

Despite Marshall being a capable deputy Holt had a far better final ball and had latterly added goals something Marshall is yet to offer.

Durnan was a threat at set pieces and without having the stats to hand I'm fairly sure scored more goals last season than his replacement Brownlie has this season (he's played far less games granted).

McShane and Kerr are both far better than any of our current midfield, in both a creative and goal scoring sense.

It's absolute nonsense to suggest we are only missing Reilly and Carmichael.

Yes it is nonsense to suggest we are only missing Reilly and Carmichael. Which is why I didn't say that. I said I didn't think losing any of the other players has affected our capability to attack.

Not having a player who scored the odd goal from set pieces makes no difference whatsoever to any team's ability to attack. To suggest otherwise really is absolute nonsense. It might slightly affect their goal scoring record, but not the way they play.

And having a left back whose final ball sometimes lets him down and who hasn't yet added the odd goal again doesn't affect the capability. He can still get forward just the same.

The argument being put forward previously was that the players we lost in the summer have affected our ability to attack. Kerr didn't leave in the summer. He left halfway through last season. Nobody has previously suggested that we only played attacking football for half of last season. Is that the new argument?

McShane is a loss but, again, shouldn't have a huge effect on the capability to attack. Unless the midfield players we have are incapable of playing a forward pass. I thought that is what Millar, at least, was for.

We have shown in games that we are more than capable of attacking teams with the players we have. It is just that when we score first, we stop. Or we only start after we go behind.

[Broony88]

You'd think we were battling relegation the way half the folk are going on.

I am disappointed we are being set up not to lose most games instead of going out to win them. We aren't as good a side as last year but we have the potential to be better than we have been. With some believe and a more attacking set up we will finish fourth imo. If we continue to sit deep and invite trouble like Fowler usually sets us up to do we will lose more than we will win and might finish 7th. That in my book would be an extremely disappointing season.

Edited March 6, 2016 by Broony88