Livingston v Ross County (Sat 8th Oct)

[ATLIS]

I'm yet to see it with Stephen Kelly as well. At DM Sean Kelly has at least been a relative success but my goodness did Martindale get it wrong today. We need Bruce on the park so badly.

The Musselburgh Xavi pish was embarrassing when we're sitting at 1-0 down. Stuff like that is fine if we're winning and can have a laugh but deary me it does nothing to calm you down in games like today's  

[Eder]

Fair play to the band of County fans that made the trip to TMA after getting hammered by Motherwell midweek.

They got a great reward.

[central staggie]

15 hours ago, ol1vercloff said:

Tough one to take, undeserved defeat, a point would have been fair. Plenty of possession during the game and did hee haw with it. An all too familiar sight - plenty of the ball but a counter attack/error from Livingston concedes the points. 

County were very lucky to finish the game with 11 men, but thems the breaks.

Guthrie will/should feel disappointed with his shift today. Seemed to be a hindrance to his team-mates at times, not as good as Nouble at holding the ball up and his first touch was pretty bad. Needs to cut out the dramatic dives and complaining to the ref act.

Plenty of possession but no end product - big opportunity for points lost today, same last week as well. Very frustrating.

The free tickets given to County didn't go down well at all eh.

Hows that? Genuine question.

 

It wasn't that niggly a game, but the ref seemed happy enough to let some things slide one minute, then ping someone else for the same thing 2 minutes later.

[hoobahabba]

First of all, full credit to Ross County for managing to win that game. In the first half, I thought we were going to steamroll them. But the longer they kept us out, the more the game swung in their favour. They fully deserved the 3 points for the way they defended and for taking their chance when it presented itself. 

As others have said, we need Anderson starting as soon as possible. Nouble, Bahamboula and Guthrie are all too similar to be playing up front together. I like all three of them and think Guthrie has come in for some harsh criticism on here; he didn't have a bad game in my opinion. However, there is a clear lack of goal scoring threat in our team at the moment. We also need Omeonga and Fitzwater back pronto. Shinnie's impact on the game was minute in comparison to the work that Omeonga puts in regularly. Sean Kelly needs a shake. I like him as a player but that's two major f**k ups in two weeks. Either move him back into midfield (if Omeonga isn't back) or bench him for the St Johnstone game. I can see us conceding more goals like the one we did yesterday if he remains at CB. 

It's hard to be too angry at the team because it wasn't a bad performance. It's just incredibly frustrating to see us take 0 points from two games we should have won. 

[hoobahabba]

1 hour ago, central staggie said:

Hows that? Genuine question.

 

It wasn't that niggly a game, but the ref seemed happy enough to let some things slide one minute, then ping someone else for the same thing 2 minutes later.

I thought the referee was very lenient and County took advantage of that. They could and should have received more bookings for persistent fouling. Also, the tackle on Nouble in the first half when he was through could have seen a red card but it was borderline. You always see it differently when it's your side but it did feel like County's disruptive tactics wouldn't have worked with a more stringent referee. Anyway, we often receive criticism for a similar approach against certain teams so can't really complain. Ultimately, the ref wasn't the deciding factor. 

[central staggie]

44 minutes ago, hoobahabba said:

I thought the referee was very lenient and County took advantage of that. They could and should have received more bookings for persistent fouling. Also, the tackle on Nouble in the first half when he was through could have seen a red card but it was borderline. You always see it differently when it's your side but it did feel like County's disruptive tactics wouldn't have worked with a more stringent referee. Anyway, we often receive criticism for a similar approach against certain teams so can't really complain. Ultimately, the ref wasn't the deciding factor. 

Funny, I thought that the ref was quick to penalise County for minor things that he was happy to let Livi away with, but you're spot on re seeing things differently. For what it's worth Iacovitti was covering, but it was a shit attempt to win the ball from Watson.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, central staggie said:

Funny, I thought that the ref was quick to penalise County for minor things that he was happy to let Livi away with, but you're spot on re seeing things differently. For what it's worth Iacovitti was covering, but it was a shit attempt to win the ball from Watson.

Don't know if Lacovitti was covering or not, but the tackle itself was a scissors type and deserved a straight red for endangering the player alone.  Wanted to see the arm across Anderson's face on Sportscene to see if it was a red too, the ref gave a foul for it and at the time it looked either an elbow or forearm, so would've liked to have seen a closer look on that one.

 

Anyway, as has been said on the game, we lacked a goal scorer and got punished for not sticking our chances away. The introduction of Anderson the last 2 games has been far too late, expecting him to get us something when we either go behind (last week), or have lost some energy in the game (this week) and aren't making as many chances as we were first half, where Anderson would've been far more likely to have scored. He's a natural finisher and so quick getting shots off, and on target, which we are crying out for just now.

 

We're playing well enough to be getting points, just no end product, so extremely frustrating having last season's top goal scorer sitting on the bench for 70 mins, banging on about it but it's doing my head in as i just find myself constantly looking over to the bench for signs of him coming on. Oh and our set pieces are terrible, the amount of fouls we're getting around the box and hardly any get anywhere near threatening their goal.

 

Was pissed off last week at losing the game when we dominated it, but was more resigned to it happening again this week when we weren't scoring, just knew County would score. As Martindale said post match, you get what you deserve, and that's 2 weeks running we've lost because we can't defend properly, and are not taking chances, but a lot of that is down to him, i wont bother saying why, kinda made my feelings known on that already.

[ol1vercloff]

3 hours ago, central staggie said:

Hows that? Genuine question.

 

It wasn't that niggly a game, but the ref seemed happy enough to let some things slide one minute, then ping someone else for the same thing 2 minutes later.

You committed 18 fouls, compared to our 10. A lot of your fouls were bringing players down on purpose instead of challenging for the ball. You're not a dirty side, it was just a a professional and experienced game plan executed effectively.

[LIVIFOREVER]

18 hours ago, LiviLion said:

That was a bit pathetic really. Knew as soon as the half time whistle went that County were winning that 1-0, chance after chance yet I don't think the County keeper needed to make a save in the first half, we've only got one player I'd be confident of finishing a chance and he was (understandably due to injury) on the bench for most of the game. 

Other than the goalmouth scramble there was no point we looked like scoring, a lot of "getting the ball in the right place" immediately followed by passing it some more until its finally lost. Stephen Kelly was almost a breath of fresh air as he actually looked like trying to get a shot off.

Off the pitch I hope that cringeworthy patter over the tannoy is packed in, I'm all for the enthusiasm which was good to hear but the "Musselburgh Xavi" etc shite was toe-curling. 

Yeah only shot that was heading towards goal first half was blocked by Guthrie getting in the way. Guthrie & Ayo really should've scored with gilt edged chances inside the 6 yard box, Pitts and Ayo had decent efforts saved, apart from that we just put a lot of balls into their box with not much chance of any Livi player getting on them. Lots of bad decision making with our final balls. Agree though, balls aimlessly fired into the box with Anderson playing have far more likely a chance of ending up in the net, he's got a knack of getting into the right place to finish those off.

 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

18 hours ago, Pete the Jakey said:

Also, what was the Pie of the Day?

Sean Kelly for that header for your goal.

22 hours ago, Matty-RCFC said:

Our insanity doing the same thing trumped yours.

[Guest]

10 hours ago, hoobahabba said:

As others have said, we need Anderson starting as soon as possible. Nouble, Bahamboula and Guthrie are all too similar to be playing up front together. I like all three of them and think Guthrie has come in for some harsh criticism on here; he didn't have a bad game in my opinion.

I mentioned Guthrie in my earlier comment and I just want to clarify my thoughts on him. I agree he didn't have a bad game yesterday and that he carried out his role well. I just felt yesterday was a game where having that role in our attack was the wrong choice, and that was on Martindale not Guthrie. As you've put, Nouble, Bahamboula and Guthrie are all "support" attackers first before they're goal scorers. Perhaps if we'd had Pittman playing as a "10" really high and just off Guthrie he could've offered the penetration we lacked. Pittman was instead stuck deeper, though, with him and Shinnie used as dual "8s" ahead of Holt, who was holding. 

 

10 hours ago, hoobahabba said:

Shinnie's impact on the game was minute in comparison to the work that Omeonga puts in regularly.

I hate when we have our midfield trio set up as a single holder with two 8s. I much prefer to have two holders with a single, advanced attacking midfielder ahead of them. So I prefer a 2-1 shape for the midfield trio rather than a 1-2 shape. The advantages to having two holders is it allows the attacking midfielder to push higher up into the 10 space and also to stay more central than if he's played as an 8. Two holders also offers more protection to the full backs which allows them to go forward with greater abandon, something we really benefit from given how well Montano attacks and Devlin can be great down the right also. 

Shinnie was played as an 8 yesterday and it's really, really not his position. He's not got the running power, the dribbling or the long passing to play centre midfield. He's an attacking midfielder. He needs to be played in the line behind the striker, either centrally or wide, or even as a false 9. His strengths are a great first touch which makes his back to goal play excellent when receiving the ball to feet. His short passing is good and inventive. His movement is clever allowing him to find space in the attacking third and he can finish well as his shooting is good.

[The Wrong Car]

11 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

I mentioned Guthrie in my earlier comment and I just want to clarify my thoughts on him. I agree he didn't have a bad game yesterday and that he carried out his role well. I just felt yesterday was a game where having that role in our attack was the wrong choice, and that was on Martindale not Guthrie. As you've put, Nouble, Bahamboula and Guthrie are all "support" attackers first before they're goal scorers. Perhaps if we'd had Pittman playing as a "10" really high and just off Guthrie he could've offered the penetration we lacked. Pittman was instead stuck deeper, though, with him and Shinnie used as dual "8s" ahead of Holt, who was holding. 

 

I hate when we have our midfield trio set up as a single holder with two 8s. I much prefer to have two holders with a single, advanced attacking midfielder ahead of them. So I prefer a 2-1 shape for the midfield trio rather than a 1-2 shape. The advantages to having two holders is it allows the attacking midfielder to push higher up into the 10 space and also to stay more central than if he's played as an 8. Two holders also offers more protection to the full backs which allows them to go forward with greater abandon, something we really benefit from given how well Montano attacks and Devlin can be great down the right also. 

Shinnie was played as an 8 yesterday and it's really, really not his position. He's not got the running power, the dribbling or the long passing to play centre midfield. He's an attacking midfielder. He needs to be played in the line behind the striker, either centrally or wide, or even as a false 9. His strengths are a great first touch which makes his back to goal play excellent when receiving the ball to feet. His short passing is good and inventive. His movement is clever allowing him to find space in the attacking third and he can finish well as his shooting is good.

This basically sums up my feelings, only much more articulately

The front three seemed very much a "OF at home" line up where the focus is holdup, and as you said the midfield 3 didn't have the legs to get forward or cover the WBs as well. I'd push Kelly into CM next week if Omeonga isn't back, and bring in Cancar or Fitzwater to CB, as well as Anderson up front. 

[Durnford]

Firstly let me say congratulations to our County friends and well done to the 100 hardy souls who made the long trek down despite the travel uncertainties.

On to the game; our defensive frailty cost us one point but remember that failing to convert our chances cost us three. Sure we missed Fitzwater and Montano started to struggle against the new County winger when he came on but that's not what cost us the points.

Whatever the formation we ended last season with Nouble playing on the right wing e most people seemed to think he played the best, but, at the beginning of this season, he was moved into a more central role where he caused absolute chaos plus chalked up a couple of goals.

Some of his play on the left wing has been very good, particularly when he seems to be able to ghost past two defenders, and put the ball into the box but that was only any good if there was someone there to capitalise and take the shot. Time and again the County CD (and defensive midfield) were there to mop it up or close down any attacking option.

Bahamboula wasn't his normal impressive self and got robbed too easily but then, in my opinion, the left wing has generally been his better position.

Guthrie tried hard but; well how can I put it, when he took his shirt off after the game I'd imagine it was three sizes too big - the number of times it was tugged or held on to. I notice that some players in the English premiership now wear shirts a size or two too big so that someone holding on to it is far more evident to the officials.

Personally I don't really see why Shinnie is deserving of a starting berth these days; he's undoubtedly a skilful player with a good knowledge of the game but I'm not sure our current makeup allows for someone wandering around the pitch doing his own thing.

Another gripe I had was that all of our high balls into the area; I think we got to about two of them and they were stifled out. We have one of the tallest front lines in the league and yet couldn't win a header? As much as I'm moaning about that it was also evident that County had done their homework and were well drilled for our set pieces etc.

I know the general feeling was that we were robbed but I see it somewhat differently. We should have won but didn't do enough to win it; County came for a draw; set their strategy up as such and achieved their main aim. The goal due to our own mix up was pretty much of our own making.

Simply put, if we couldn't break down the defence then we didn't deserve to win; it should however be remembered the fact that we couldn't was due in no small part to County's discipline and well drilled defence. I cannot believe that this is the same defence that let in five against Motherwell at home a few days back?????

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Durnford said:

Firstly let me say congratulations to our County friends and well done to the 100 hardy souls who made the long trek down despite the travel uncertainties.

On to the game; our defensive frailty cost us one point but remember that failing to convert our chances cost us three. Sure we missed Fitzwater and Montano started to struggle against the new County winger when he came on but that's not what cost us the points.

Whatever the formation we ended last season with Nouble playing on the right wing e most people seemed to think he played the best, but, at the beginning of this season, he was moved into a more central role where he caused absolute chaos plus chalked up a couple of goals.

Some of his play on the left wing has been very good, particularly when he seems to be able to ghost past two defenders, and put the ball into the box but that was only any good if there was someone there to capitalise and take the shot. Time and again the County CD (and defensive midfield) were there to mop it up or close down any attacking option.

Bahamboula wasn't his normal impressive self and got robbed too easily but then, in my opinion, the left wing has generally been his better position.

Guthrie tried hard but; well how can I put it, when he took his shirt off after the game I'd imagine it was three sizes too big - the number of times it was tugged or held on to. I notice that some players in the English premiership now wear shirts a size or two too big so that someone holding on to it is far more evident to the officials.

Personally I don't really see why Shinnie is deserving of a starting berth these days; he's undoubtedly a skilful player with a good knowledge of the game but I'm not sure our current makeup allows for someone wandering around the pitch doing his own thing.

Another gripe I had was that all of our high balls into the area; I think we got to about two of them and they were stifled out. We have one of the tallest front lines in the league and yet couldn't win a header? As much as I'm moaning about that it was also evident that County had done their homework and were well drilled for our set pieces etc.

I know the general feeling was that we were robbed but I see it somewhat differently. We should have won but didn't do enough to win it; County came for a draw; set their strategy up as such and achieved their main aim. The goal due to our own mix up was pretty much of our own making.

Simply put, if we couldn't break down the defence then we didn't deserve to win; it should however be remembered the fact that we couldn't was due in no small part to County's discipline and well drilled defence. I cannot believe that this is the same defence that let in five against Motherwell at home a few days back?????

Motherwell have Van Veen, we have Anderson, but he was kept on the bench for 3/4 of the game. Reckon if we'd got a goal early on in the first half it would've opened up a few more for us, but not having an end product perfectly fitted in with County's game plan. Even if we had someone who could take a decent free kick it could've got us a goal, the amount we had around their box.

Basically Motherwell were far more clinical than us, 11 shots, 6 on target, 5 goals.

Us, 22 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

 

We had more possession than Motherwell, gave county less shots at our goal than Motherwell did against them, they had the same shots on target against us and Motherwell, one, but scored with it against us. 

Pretty much comes down to us needing to get Anderson on from the start or we're going to keep on struggling to score.

Edited October 10, 2022 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

42 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Motherwell have Van Veen, we have Anderson, but he was kept on the bench for 3/4 of the game. Reckon if we'd got a goal early on in the first half it would've opened up a few more for us, but not having an end product perfectly fitted in with County's game plan. Even if we had someone who could take a decent free kick it could've got us a goal, the amount we had around their box.

Basically Motherwell were far more clinical than us, 11 shots, 6 on target, 5 goals.

Us, 22 shots, 3 on target, 0 goals.

 

We had more possession than Motherwell, gave county less shots at our goal than Motherwell did against them, they had the same shots on target against us and Motherwell, one, but scored with it against us. 

Pretty much comes down to us needing to get Anderson on from the start or we're going to keep on struggling to score.

Yes; the stats pretty much speak for themselves but even then there were umpteen occasions where we seemed to want to take the extra touch in hope of getting the perfect shot rather than simply having a go.

Previously we would have relied on Pittman to fill the shoot on sight role but even he seemed to have left his shooting boots in the dressing room - although he did have a good attempt later on.

Actually young Kelly when he came on seemed far more willing to have a go outside the area than pretty much anyone else the entire game.

 I used to love Malcolm McDonald's philosophy in the seventies of "shoot on sight; by the law of averages some are bound to go in" although I'm pretty sure a lot of managers would frown on that in the modern game. Rightly or wrongly people tend to view a shot saved as a missed opportunity.

 

However. the important question is.... did the beef and Satay sauce pie work? I enjoyed mine but don't think I'd pick it again ahead of our steak and gravy.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Durnford said:

Yes; the stats pretty much speak for themselves but even then there were umpteen occasions where we seemed to want to take the extra touch in hope of getting the perfect shot rather than simply having a go.

Previously we would have relied on Pittman to fill the shoot on sight role but even he seemed to have left his shooting boots in the dressing room - although he did have a good attempt later on.

Actually young Kelly when he came on seemed far more willing to have a go outside the area than pretty much anyone else the entire game.

 I used to love Malcolm McDonald's philosophy in the seventies of "shoot on sight; by the law of averages some are bound to go in" although I'm pretty sure a lot of managers would frown on that in the modern game. Rightly or wrongly people tend to view a shot saved as a missed opportunity.

 

However. the important question is.... did the beef and Satay sauce pie work? I enjoyed mine but don't think I'd pick it again ahead of our steak and gravy.

Did you buy a Steak and gravy pie too though, just as back up of course? 

 

Pretty fair assessment from a County perspective. Ross County fan view: Livingston tonic was much-needed (pressandjournal.co.uk)

 

 

[Durnford]

21 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Did you buy a Steak and gravy pie too though, just as back up of course? 

 

Pretty fair assessment from a County perspective. Ross County fan view: Livingston tonic was much-needed (pressandjournal.co.uk)

 

 

The thought did cross my mind 

[Cptn Hooch]

Actually young Kelly when he came on seemed far more willing to have a go outside the area than pretty much anyone else the entire game.
 

Shinnie had a shot from outside the box blocked early doors, Holt and Devlin also blazed long attempts over the bar. Ayo blasted a free kick into the wall and Kelly blew one over the bar too. Having a shot wasn't the issue with 22 shots in the game, it was the lack of quality. Our long shooting doesn't seem to be very good. I can't actually think of the last long range smasher that we've scored.

[LIVIFOREVER]

6 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

 

 

Shinnie had a shot from outside the box blocked early doors, Holt and Devlin also blazed long attempts over the bar. Ayo blasted a free kick into the wall and Kelly blew one over the bar too. Having a shot wasn't the issue with 22 shots in the game, it was the lack of quality. Our long shooting doesn't seem to be very good. I can't actually think of the last long range smasher that we've scored.

 

Yeah Keaghan and then Pittman were good at long range shots, Keaghan's left us and i really don't know what has happened to Pittman, he did hit one decent effort that was blocked by their keeper, but he's reluctant to take the shots he used to. Also playing in the wrong position a lot of times and isn't able to get into the 6 yard box like he used to. He is good at getting onto balls cut back from the byeline, and we've 2 good wide players that are excellent at getting balls in from there in Bahamboula & Nouble. When we're not starting Anderson we should at least be getting Pitts up into the box as often as possible to try and get onto some of those balls into our box.

 

We've a few good ball players but none of them have a decent shot on them, Nouble lacks power, Bahamboula is wild, so is Omeonga. Whenever i see Holt lining up for a shot i fear for whoever has parked their car outside the stadium. Ayo has a decent shot on him though and so does Fitzwater, and of course Anderson.  Devlin has also decent power but doesn't always hit them on target.

[The Wrong Car]

Montano against Dundee United? I get what you mean though, I can't remember the last time a player lined up a shot and hit it, we seem much more impulsive when it comes to shooting.