cowdenbeath Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, Pompey Blue said: Post of the thread for me. If dropping into non league wasn’t such a terrifying prospect we might get some real progress. The English model has to be followed. The conference there is a thriving league and I include conferences north and south too. That’s because there is a proper promotion and relegation model. Getting into the football league is attainable unlike Scotland where a club has to virtually complete the 12 tasks of Hercules before gaining promotion. Fluidity of movement between divisions is the lifeblood of any domestic league. Take that away and it becomes uncompetitive and stale. How can it be right that probably between 5-8 clubs who are stronger than most of league 2’s clubs are marooned in the LL and HL simply because it’s impossible to get promoted. Needs sorting. The top end of the National League would complete in our Premiership with decent full time squads and crowds. Got to remember it has taken 34 years for their Pyramid to this level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 hours ago, Pompey Blue said: Fluidity of movement between divisions is the lifeblood of any domestic league. Take that away and it becomes uncompetitive and stale. How can it be right that probably between 5-8 clubs who are stronger than most of league 2’s clubs are marooned in the LL and HL simply because it’s impossible to get promoted. Needs sorting. That was what the Pyramid Review was meant to deal with, instead all they came up with was this farce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 hours ago, Brazilianlex said: Do you think all SPFL Clubs inc your own will reveal how they voted at the AGM for the Conference ? What vote for the Conference was held? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivo den Bieman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 This is another excruciating waste of time, this exercise. It will not garner the required votes at an AGM and will fall. Maxwell and the people behind this should be sacked as they clearly do not have a fucking clue how their own organisation works. If the bigoted arsecheeks and assorted others want to form a B team league why does it need to be in the pyramid at all? Just go ahead and form it. If it will have the obvious benefits then let them demonstrate it in practice. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 hours ago, Pompey Blue said: Post of the thread for me. If dropping into non league wasn’t such a terrifying prospect we might get some real progress. The English model has to be followed. The conference there is a thriving league and I include conferences north and south too. That’s because there is a proper promotion and relegation model. Getting into the football league is attainable unlike Scotland where a club has to virtually complete the 12 tasks of Hercules before gaining promotion. Fluidity of movement between divisions is the lifeblood of any domestic league. Take that away and it becomes uncompetitive and stale. How can it be right that probably between 5-8 clubs who are stronger than most of league 2’s clubs are marooned in the LL and HL simply because it’s impossible to get promoted. Needs sorting. While I agree with the point you are making about promotion and relegation given the way that Bonnyrigg have struggled this season I'm not so sure about that claim 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderbrokeyourhearts Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 5 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: While I agree with the point you are making about promotion and relegation given the way that Bonnyrigg have struggled this season I'm not so sure about that claim I wouldn’t say that. It’s a really competitive league. Only 13 points between 3rd and 10th! Bonnyrigg have an aging team after a huge bumped cup run a few years ago paid for it. So they are settling down, a really good performance in their first season up. The real reflection is where East Stirling and Cowdenbeath finished. 15th and 16th in the Lowland league, even Berwick could only manage 7th. That’s without mentioning the 6 or 7 clubs in the EOS and WOS that would raise the standard of the LL as well (and ok current form replace East Stirling and Cowdenbeath). This shows there’s plenty room for opening it up IMO! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 26 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: While I agree with the point you are making about promotion and relegation given the way that Bonnyrigg have struggled this season I'm not so sure about that claim Are you a politician per chance? Completely ignoring Cove, Edinburgh and Kelty. Also how many club 42's have returned. Closed shop anyone! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realmadrid Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said: Are you a politician per chance? Completely ignoring Cove, Edinburgh and Kelty. Also how many club 42's have returned. Closed shop anyone! Hopefully one in the next few weeks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbob1875 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 23 minutes ago, Nowhereman said: While I agree with the point you are making about promotion and relegation given the way that Bonnyrigg have struggled this season I'm not so sure about that claim It's true that Bonnyrigg were poor at times this season but that was really down to them being too loyal to the squad that got them there, which was a bit naive but also admirable in its own way. Despite those struggles Bonnyrigg, are actually only 9 points from the promotion playoffs, normally being that close to 4th is nowhere near relegation. Also, prior to this season, the highest-ever points total for a 10th placed side in that league was 35, everyone in the league has already passed that mark with two games left. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pompey Blue Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 2 hours ago, cowdenbeath said: The top end of the National League would complete in our Premiership with decent full time squads and crowds. Got to remember it has taken 34 years for their Pyramid to this level. True it’s a well established set up and even clubs way down the ladder, say level 9 or 10 on the pyramid can dream of league football simply because there’s a clear path through promotions. The Scottish pyramid seems more like a bunch of sealed boxes piled on top of each other where getting promoted is more of a maybe than a reality. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 hour ago, grinderbrokeyourhearts said: I wouldn’t say that. It’s a really competitive league. Only 13 points between 3rd and 10th! Bonnyrigg have an aging team after a huge bumped cup run a few years ago paid for it. So they are settling down, a really good performance in their first season up. The real reflection is where East Stirling and Cowdenbeath finished. 15th and 16th in the Lowland league, even Berwick could only manage 7th. That’s without mentioning the 6 or 7 clubs in the EOS and WOS that would raise the standard of the LL as well (and ok current form replace East Stirling and Cowdenbeath). This shows there’s plenty room for opening it up IMO! Absolutley agree that it should be opened up, there should be proper promotion and relegation. I was only commenting on your assertion that there were up to eight clubs who were stronger than the current clubs in league two. There will be plenty who would be competitive. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowhereman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 52 minutes ago, HorseyGhirl said: Are you a politician per chance? Completely ignoring Cove, Edinburgh and Kelty. Also how many club 42's have returned. Closed shop anyone! His comment was about clubs who are outwith the spfl, not about clubs who are already in it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunning1874 Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Behind a paywall so can't see the full article, but Press & Journal are reporting that Aberdeen haven't made their minds up on entering a B team and will consult their fans. Don't be scabs, Aberdeen fans. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) EXCLUSIVE: Aberdeen colts team entry into SFA’s new Conference League not a done deal yet – as Dons weigh up fifth-tier pros and cons EXCLUSIVE: Aberdeen colts team entry into SFA’s new Conference League not a done deal yet – as Dons weigh up fifth-tier pros and cons The Reds are mulling over substantial extra costs from the Conference League and whether involvement will significantly improve their youth development pathway. Will Aberdeen enter a colts team into the new fifth-tier Conference League? by Ryan CryleApril 28 2023, 12.55pm Share0Comment Aberdeen FC newsletter - Reports, views, analysis & transfer chat from Pittodrie. Email addressSign up Aberdeen have not yet committed to entering a colts side in the new fifth-tier Conference League – with Pittodrie chiefs still determining the positives and negatives of the SFA’s planned shake-up. On Tuesday, the Dons were reported to be one of four Premiership clubs set to enter a “B” side of young players into the 10-team league which is expected to be in place for the start of the 2024/25 season. However, The Press and Journal understands Aberdeen’s involvement in the proposals is by no means certain at this stage. We can reveal Dons chiefs were only filled in about the full details of the SFA’s plans in recent days and are carefully weighing up the pros and cons internally, including the costs involved in taking part and whether it will boost the club’s youth development. Dundee United and Hibernian have also been invited to join Celtic, Rangers and Hearts as the fourth Premiership club to enter their colts in the new division, with the remaining six slots in the Conference League to be filled by four teams from the Lowland League and two from the Highland League. Premiership clubs will be committed to the playing in the new fifth-tier for at least five seasons, and will fund it by each paying £100,000 per season to take part. The SFA’s headquarters at Hampden Park. Image: SNS The Reds have been given a deadline of a few weeks to decide whether they want to be involved in the Conference League, with SFA member clubs expected to vote to give the new league plans the green light at the SFA’s AGM in June. What will factor into Aberdeen’s Conference League decision? The Dons – who do not have a colts/B team at present – have kicked off internal discussions on whether they will enter a side into the Conference League. It is understood Aberdeen chiefs see clear positives in the plans, which the SFA have drawn up due to their belief Scotland’s 16-to-21-year-old footballers are lagging behind players in European countries where B teams are part of the league structure. However, Reds bosses also have some concerns – and are determined to do their due diligence in order to assess whether they can throw their weight behind the project. Significant additional costs One key element in Aberdeen’s review of the SFA proposals will be the significant costs of committing to participate in the Conference League. In addition to the six-figure yearly entry fee, the Dons would face further costs from having to effectively create a new team, ranging from coach and player recruitment, to kit, coach travel to games and hiring stadiums for the B team to play their matches in. Pittodrie is not an option for fixtures. Aberdeen are weighing up the Conference League proposals. The B team wouldn’t be able to play at Pittodrie. Image: Shutterstock Would Conference League involvement improve Dons’ youth pathway? The club’s top-brass are also sounding out staff in their football department and youth academy – including first-team boss, and former under-18s coach, Barry Robson – on whether they think involvement in the new fifth-tier would enhance Aberdeen’s youth development pathway enough for it to be worthwhile. SFA bosses are convinced the Conference League – made up of young sides from the most well-resourced Premiership clubs, and top Highland League and Lowland League sides – will guarantee the top-flight clubs’ rising stars regular competitive matches. Celtic, Rangers and Hearts’ colts teams have been playing in the Lowland League this term, however, the SFA believe the Conference League will ensure every game the youngsters face will be of a high standard. Although the Dons are thought to see the merits of this, there is also a view inside Aberdeen the SFA’s proposals are in no way a youth development silver bullet, and must be judged against the club’s current youth development model, which has produced the likes of Calvin Ramsay, Ryan Duncan, Scott McKenna and Connor Barron. Aberdeen boss Barry Robson – formerly a key part of the club’s youth development operation. Image: Shutterstock Currently, the Pittodrie outfit have youth teams up to under-18s. They have made the call to send players who are between 18 and 21, and not ready for first-team action, out on loan to the Championship, League One, League Two or the Highland League to finish their development. Pathways manager Neil Simpson explained the benefits of this approach for their youth academy graduates to The Press and Journal in January last year – pointing to the need for the players to face matches with real stakes against different teams, styles and opposition players, in proper grounds with crowds and varying surfaces. The resource drain of creating a colts team to play in the Conference League – where the Premiership B teams will be ineligible for promotion or relegation – could spell the end of the Dons loaning players out like this. And even if they did keep those players around, it is understood they would still need to recruit more older youngsters to ensure they had a squad with a suitable age profile for the demands of playing in the division against experienced Highland and Lowland League sides. However, while reduced stakes in the Conference League and the need to build a squad to participate are potential issues, a B team would help the Reds coaches ensure their players do not pick up the kind of perceived bad habits and other problems which can come from sending them to clubs further down the pyramid for loan spells. Fans will be consulted on Conference League before Aberdeen make a decision It is also understood Aberdeen plan to consult stakeholders – including supporters – for their views on the Conference League plans. The Dons know some fans have misgivings – including those who are concerned about the impact the league restructuring plan will have on the much-loved Highland League in its current format. There are fears strong clubs leaving the Highland League to join Conference League will damage the former product. Meanwhile, the insertion of a new league into the existing pyramid has been criticised for condemning hundreds of clubs from the current fifth-tier down to what is effectively relegation. The Highland League. Image: Jason Hedges/DC Thomson If the Pittodrie hierarchy are thought to be keen to make responsible decisions which do not cause unnecessary damage to the wider Scottish game. However, they are balancing this against whether they could find themselves lagging behind other Premiership clubs in terms of youth development, if they are involved in the Conference League, but Aberdeen are not. Edited April 28, 2023 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellichtie Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 Beggar’s belief how the Lowland League was not set up initially as just top 3/4 teams from the EoSFL, SoSFL, East and West juniors with licensing not an issue unless you wanted promotion. Allowing all these weird shite teams with their no fans and podcasts who all seem to play at Broadwood was the beginning of their problems. Can’t say I’m surprised they’re pushing ahead with this but it does really stink. Would not be surprised to see a lot of EosFL and WoSFL teams just going f**k this and heading back to the juniors. -3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, ellichtie said: Beggar’s belief how the Lowland League was not set up initially as just top 3/4 teams from the EoSFL, SoSFL, East and West juniors with licensing not an issue unless you wanted promotion. Allowing all these weird shite teams with their no fans and podcasts who all seem to play at Broadwood was the beginning of their problems. Can’t say I’m surprised they’re pushing ahead with this but it does really stink. Would not be surprised to see a lot of EosFL and WoSFL teams just going f**k this and heading back to the juniors. You've not been paying attention! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellichtie Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Burnieman said: You've not been paying attention! I know a lot of them are still part of the SJFA, I just mean in terms of leagues. They've gone through all this hassle with their Conferences, rebranding and licensing (some teams) just to basically have the door shut on them. If they decided to go back to their old junior leagues set-up I would not be surprised because a lot of them must just be thinking f**k this. Edited April 28, 2023 by ellichtie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burnieman Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 3 minutes ago, ellichtie said: I know a lot of them are still part of the SJFA, I just mean in terms of leagues. They've gone through all this hassle with their Conferences, rebranding and licensing (some teams) just to basically have the door shut on them. If they decided to go back to their old junior leagues set-up I would not be surprised because a lot of them must just be thinking f**k this. The Conference is a shit idea which needs binned, but the doors not shut, far from it. Nobody is going back to leagues that don't exist and have zero chance of progression. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellichtie Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 7 minutes ago, Burnieman said: The Conference is a shit idea which needs binned, but the doors not shut, far from it. Nobody is going back to leagues that don't exist and have zero chance of progression. I wouldn't say the current system gives them much of a chance of progression either, even less so with a potential conference league. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grinderbrokeyourhearts Posted April 28, 2023 Share Posted April 28, 2023 12 minutes ago, ellichtie said: I wouldn't say the current system gives them much of a chance of progression either, even less so with a potential conference league. It does, but it’s disappointing that a LL champion will progress (and probably never win) what is a full time U21 premiership league. Theres stacks of chance of progression, that starts with the clubs I suspect you are talking about getting up into the LL and proving it’s a product on par or better than League 2 or the Conference. That starts with the LL voting for 3 down, what happens above although disappointing can wait until later in my opinion. Most clubs our level will be at most League 2 or at a push League 1 and with a playoff to get up there’s a pretty small chance of getting there at the start of the season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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