Steve Clarke - in/out/general discussion

[ScottishZizou]

Two things can be true at once.
1- we have been unfortunate over the last few games and Clarke has his hands tied behind his back with the current squad availability, particularly missing Hickey and Tierney.

2- Clarke should have been given the boot after the euros. He has had multiple chances now and we have absolutely crapped the bed at both euros and the Ukraine World Cup playoff. That’s less than circa 26 European countries have achieved in the last decade , it’s bizarre he is still in charge 

I have posted it before but this is the list of countries who have made it furtyer than us since the reformed euros 2016. What an embarrassment that people don’t think we can achieve as much as some of these footballing countries

1- France 2- Switzerland 3- Wales 4- England 5- Slovakia 6- Germany 7- Poland 8- Northern Ireland 9-Croatia 10- Spain 11- Italy 12- Belgium 13- Ireland 14- Hungary 15- Iceland 16- Portugal 17- Netherlands 18- Austria 19- Ukraine 20- Czech 21- Sweden 22- Denmark 
23- Slovenia 24- Romania 25- Turkey 26- Georgia

Edited Monday at 17:14 by ScottishZizou

[Gordon EF]

If Scotland win, it's down to Steve Clarke. If we lose then it's just individual errors and there's nothing Clarke could have done.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

[Scary Bear]

I wish Steve Clarke had been sacked after the Euros just to end this f**king tedious thread. But he wasn’t. Deal with it.

[Old Bing]

3 hours ago, Gordon EF said:

If Scotland win, it's down to Steve Clarke. If we lose then it's just individual errors and there's nothing Clarke could have done.

What's so difficult to understand about that?

This is about as accurate a post as their could be on this.

[theoriginalhedge]

As in everyday life , why should Scotland accept being second class? 

We have enough people with drive , ambition and self respect to make a real go of things but there are too many just willing to accept being told we are not good enough. 

I am not sure which camp Steve Clarke falls into as he says the right things beforehand but seems to accept defeat very easily. 

[kennie makevin]

8 minutes ago, theoriginalhedge said:

As in everyday life , why should Scotland accept being second class? 

 

We have enough people with drive , ambition and self respect to make a real go of things but there are too many just willing to accept being told we are not good enough. 

I am not sure which camp Steve Clarke falls into as he says the right things beforehand but seems to accept defeat very easily. 

Yes we have players with drive, ambition and self respect; it's just that not enough of them have the talent and footballing skills required for international level. That's a fact. Scotland are a second class football nation and no amount of simplistic  'Scots Wae Hae' claymore thumping will change that. That type of thinking is akin to the nonsense some spout about Celtic winning championship after championship 'because they want it more'.

[theoriginalhedge]

33 minutes ago, kennie makevin said:

Yes we have players with drive, ambition and self respect; it's just that not enough of them have the talent and footballing skills required for international level. That's a fact. Scotland are a second class football nation and no amount of simplistic  'Scots Wae Hae' claymore thumping will change that. That type of thinking is akin to the nonsense some spout about Celtic winning championship after championship 'because they want it more'.

I am thinking much further than the simplistic face painting pish that you suggest . 

The part I highlighted needed to be addressed decades ago but it has been meekly accepted that we are just not good enough. Steve Clarke is in an ideal position to be demanding that our ruling bodies do more in the way of lobbying for a change of approach towards football. We were once a proud footballing nation but have failed to move with the times. 

Basically it looks like we are just accepting our lot which was my original point. 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:21 by theoriginalhedge

[Billy Jean King]

I suspect we can all stop our eyes bleeding and this thread can be closed after the final round of NL matches next month when I fully expect SC to stand down or be removed. Whether folk think that is right, wrong or indifferent will hopefully become moot at that juncture. 

[troopio]

9 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I suspect we can all stop our eyes bleeding and this thread can be closed after the final round of NL matches next month when I fully expect SC to stand down or be removed. Whether folk think that is right, wrong or indifferent will hopefully become moot at that juncture. 

The dinosaurs in the SFA will 1000% give him the WC Qualifiers to embarrass himself in, more of him, Hanley and his other love children

[immcinto]

2 hours ago, troopio said:

The dinosaurs in the SFA will 1000% give him the WC Qualifiers to embarrass himself in, more of him, Hanley and his other love children

The NL tournament couls have been the chance for a new manager to bed in and give us a chance for the WC Qualifying. Too late now though. Clarke played it safe and went for results over setting us up for the WCQ - picking Hanley, McLean etc. 0pts from 3 games so far. 

[Billy Jean King]

3 hours ago, troopio said:

The dinosaurs in the SFA will 1000% give him the WC Qualifiers to embarrass himself in, more of him, Hanley and his other love children

I'm pretty sure he will go after this NL campaign one way or another. 

[Old Bing]

6 minutes ago, Billy Jean King said:

I'm pretty sure he will go after this NL campaign one way or another. 

There does seem to be a bit of a media shift now. I hope your right but personally I can't see it. A new contract honestly wouldn't surprise me.

[accies1874]

52 minutes ago, immcinto said:

The NL tournament couls have been the chance for a new manager to bed in and give us a chance for the WC Qualifying. Too late now though. Clarke played it safe and went for results over setting us up for the WCQ - picking Hanley, McLean etc. 0pts from 3 games so far. 

He's given debuts to two players, both of whom will hopefully have a part to play in the World Cup qualifiers, is trying out a new formation and has called up a load of uncapped players as well as some with very few caps. 

We are quite different to how we were at the Euros. 

[Dunning1874]

Huge fan of the suggestion that Kenny McLean is Steve Clarke's lovechild and will never be dropped because of Clarke's favouritism, when he started no games at the Euros, one game out of eight in the Euros qualifying group (a dead rubber when we'd already finished second), one game out of six in the previous Nations League, and two games out of 10 in the previous World Cup qualifying campaign. He's also been one of our best players in the last two games.

There are plenty of valid sticks to beat Steve Clarke with, favouritism towards Kenny McLean isn't one of them. He's in the squad and playing games because he's obviously one of the best midfielders we've got.

[immcinto]

10 minutes ago, accies1874 said:

He's given debuts to two players, both of whom will hopefully have a part to play in the World Cup qualifiers,

Mainly due to injury. Once the set in stone A team is fit these new players will be getting 15 minute cameos at the end of every game until said players retire

[accies1874]

10 minutes ago, immcinto said:

Mainly due to injury. Once the set in stone A team is fit these new players will be getting 15 minute cameos at the end of every game until said players retire

Which injured players do you not want to see get back into the starting 11? 

[Chripper]

6 hours ago, theoriginalhedge said:

As in everyday life , why should Scotland accept being second class? 

Because 55.3% voted to stay chained to England.

[Chripper]

It's genuinely shocking that people aren't getting this. f**k me.

It's not a difficult concept:

1. We're currently in the top group of the Nations League, playing teams that are way better than us. Meaning our chances of having wins has been significantly narrowed.

2. The players will take that invaluable experience going forward, particularly the youngsters.

3. Because of the aforementioned experience of playing against top teams and elite players, our players will be better prepared to face the World Cup qualifications.

That's really the most simple way I can put it without cracking out the crayons and puppets.

It's a big picture scenario:

Short term suffering for long term gains.

After the World Cup Steve Clarke will leave and we'll be lumbered with someone like Derek McInness or Stuart Baxter.

The grass isn't always greener. Look at our pals down south for proof. Their fans ran their manager out, now they look a shambles and no one wants to manager them because their fans are delusional.

I wouldn't say that our fans are delusional. Some are just a wee bit dumb.

If the general Scotland fan fails to see the process (and progres that's clearly happening under Steve Clarke, their one brain cell is permanently out to lunch.

I cannot wait to see the reaction in this place when Scotland qualify for the World Cup. There'll be so many 180s that hospitals all over Scotland will be inundated with cases of whiplash.

Edited Tuesday at 14:43 by Chripper

[Kev]

31 minutes ago, Chripper said:

It's genuinely shocking that people aren't getting this. f**k me.

It's not a difficult concept:

1. We're currently in the top group of the Nations League, playing teams that are way better than us. Meaning our chances of having wins has been significantly narrowed.

2. The players will take that invaluable experience going forward, particularly the youngsters.

3. Because of the aforementioned experience of playing against top teams and elite players, our players will be better prepared to face the World Cup qualifications.

That's really the most simple way I can put it without cracking out the crayons and puppets.

It's a big picture scenario:

Short term suffering for long term gains.

After the World Cup Steve Clarke will leave and we'll be lumbered with someone like Derek McInness or Stuart Baxter.

The grass isn't always greener. Look at our pals down south for proof. Their fans ran their manager out, now they look a shambles and no one wants to manager them because their fans are delusional.

I wouldn't say that our fans are delusional. Some are just a wee bit dumb.

If the general Scotland fan fails to see the process (and progres that's clearly happening under Steve Clarke, their one brain cell is permanently out to lunch.

I cannot wait to see the reaction in this place when Scotland qualify for the World Cup. There'll be so many 180s that hospitals all over Scotland will be inundated with cases of whiplash.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head for me.  

I reckon if Clarke get's Hickey, Patterson and Tierney back to full fitness before the WC qualifiers and the likes of Doak progress as we hope then he's more than capable of getting us to the Finals, assuming also we get a favourable group lol.

I by no means think Clarke is infallible, he's stubborn and definitely someone that can make your blood boil so I get why folk have run out of patience with him but he's the best we have right now.  If anyone has confidence that the SFA are capable of replacing him with someone that can take us further then please pass round whatever you're sniffing.

My main worry right now is Clarke walks after the NL and we end up with Davie f**king Moyes.

[forameus]

3 hours ago, Billy Jean King said:

I'm pretty sure he will go after this NL campaign one way or another. 

Why would he be punted after relatively narrowly losing games we were probably expected to lose when he wasn't punted for losing games we had far better chances of winning in an actual tournament just a few months ago?

I don't think there's any chance of him being pushed after the NL, and probably not much chance of him jumping either. He'll go once we come close-but-not-that-close to qualifying for the World Cup.