Airdrieonians 23/24 Championship Thread♦️

[G_H]

2 minutes ago, Rhys McCabe Hype Train said:

What’s Ben Wylie up to these days?

4th Tier Swedish Football

[thediamonddude]

I’m not disputing for a second that Connor Smith would be an excellent signing for any number of teams in our league, but I would wonder if he’s a realistic possibility for us. Not just because of the cost for one player as others have noted, but because of his ‘fit’ with the team.

I’ll preface this by saying I don’t know the lad, so I may be wayy off base, but he strikes me as a huffy wee bugger and someone who has a bit of an attitude - very much the opposite of his brother, who I’d have kept a thousand times over, rather than signing Connor. Rhys, rightly, has been very careful to only bring in players that match the way he plays but I think he applies that to personality too. Look at LJ last season -it was clear he added something to the team and many would even have taken him back this year, but I get the impression that his strops put him at odds with Rhys and that maybe explains why there hasn’t been a push to bring him back.

People also sometimes forget, and Saturday was a big reminder of this, that this group has a great mentality - they believe in one another, the manager’s philosophy and fight for one another. You’ve got to be incredibly careful in terms of recruitment in situations like that, as one wrong personality could topple the whole thing like a house of cards.

Like I say, I could be wrong and this is just an observation but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a real consideration.

In addition, for me, we still need 4 players - a LB, CB, CM, and FW (made my peace with the fact we’ll use Hutts/the emergency route for GK) - so I don’t think we can afford to splurge too much on one player.

No reason to doubt Rhys and Dycey in doing the business on that front though, as their signing record is pretty damn good.

[*marko*]

24 minutes ago, par-adise said:

Is he good enough for that move? Genuine question, as if I saw him play against us last season I can't say he stood out particularly. 

Will be interesting to see if Wotherspoon was stalling on us until this deal got over the line and you could spaff all that money on his wages. 

Time will tell I suppose. From what I could see, he done a bit of work to bulk up physically in the off-season last year and became a more rounded player as a result. He always had talent, just lacked that wee bit of physicality (only natural for a young lad of that age).

 

We do have another young buck pulling the strings in midfield these days. Twice the player Devenny is for my money.

[Diamonds are Forever]

45 minutes ago, thediamonddude said:

I’m not disputing for a second that Connor Smith would be an excellent signing for any number of teams in our league, but I would wonder if he’s a realistic possibility for us. Not just because of the cost for one player as others have noted, but because of his ‘fit’ with the team.

I’ll preface this by saying I don’t know the lad, so I may be wayy off base, but he strikes me as a huffy wee bugger and someone who has a bit of an attitude - very much the opposite of his brother, who I’d have kept a thousand times over, rather than signing Connor. Rhys, rightly, has been very careful to only bring in players that match the way he plays but I think he applies that to personality too. Look at LJ last season -it was clear he added something to the team and many would even have taken him back this year, but I get the impression that his strops put him at odds with Rhys and that maybe explains why there hasn’t been a push to bring him back.

People also sometimes forget, and Saturday was a big reminder of this, that this group has a great mentality - they believe in one another, the manager’s philosophy and fight for one another. You’ve got to be incredibly careful in terms of recruitment in situations like that, as one wrong personality could topple the whole thing like a house of cards.

Like I say, I could be wrong and this is just an observation but I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s a real consideration.

In addition, for me, we still need 4 players - a LB, CB, CM, and FW (made my peace with the fact we’ll use Hutts/the emergency route for GK) - so I don’t think we can afford to splurge too much on one player.

No reason to doubt Rhys and Dycey in doing the business on that front though, as their signing record is pretty damn good.

 

Smith seems to have risen in value over the last few weeks because there are a few clubs short of players, and that's given people an inflated idea of his ability. He's had various unremarkable loan spells in the lower leagues, and then played 15 games for a Championship side that got relegated - he scored 5 goals, 3 of which were penalties. All goals count the same I know, but we have various penalty takers so those can be discounted if you are looking for what he'd bring to us. 2 goals in half a season is hardly anything to get excited about.

Given our lack of options in that position I'm sure he'd be a decent option to have, but would have questions over how he'd fit into our team, how much he actually contributes beyond falling over and winning fouls, and whether he'd be worth what we'd have to pay.

[Passionate]

Good luck to young Justin, a player when Murray had him looked like a typical 18 year old Loanee,  got released by killie,  Rhys picked him up and came back a totally different player,  that  doesn't happen to every player released by bigger clubs,  it shows there is talented laddies getting lost to the game..

What will happen next it won't be signings that's for sure..

In saying that we have signed GK Liam Prunty and CH Joe Cassidy from QP they I would imagine would go into the Under 18s ,  and also we are in  the old  Reserve League West this season which starts next week,  so whatever fee once it gets diced up by Jackie Mac's cut,  Killies development cut and whatever we get left with which will be split up into a  payment schedule anyway,  I would imagine it will go into the club 'infrastructure' to help fund the Under 18 and new reserve setup,   To be honest not bad for a lad on a one year deal though is it..

[Mybitchunderprotest]

On 20/08/2023 at 10:44, Rhys McCabe Hype Train said:

If any of the SLO lemmings are reading, I think we need to sign McMaster to a multi year contract. He’ll be worth double the £250k that we’re getting for Devenny.

Calling people lemmings simply because they've been invited to provide some opinion as a fan of the club is a bit harsh IMO.

 

And no, I'm not involved.

On 20/08/2023 at 16:22, Kenny_m said:

How does anyone know the contracts players are on as the club very rarely make this info available. Please don't anyone say transfermkrt!

Nobody does unless they have access to some knowledge from either the club, player or players agent. However given that when Devenny was signed from Killie we put him on a 2 year deal, I can only imagine that McMaster would be similar unless he decided he didn't want that.

21 minutes ago, Passionate said:

so whatever fee once it gets diced up by Jackie Mac's cut,  Killies development cut and whatever we get left with which will be split up into a  payment schedule anyway,  I would imagine it will go into the club 'infrastructure' to help fund the Under 18 and new reserve setup,   To be honest not bad for a lad on a one year deal though is it..

Think Killie could be due the square root of f**k all as I'm sure they released him. In which case they'll be fucking kicking themselves.

"Training compensation will not be due if the player has not received an offer in writing 60 days prior to the expiration of their contract and if they have received an offer they have received it must be at least the same value as their contract with their current club."

[airdrieman]

I hope Justin knows that I’ll remember that goal v Falkirk in the play-offs for the rest of my days. Pure bedlam from that point on

https://x.com/airdrieoniansfc/status/1656071719268888577?s=46&t=ei9lEQUlqVT6IyVJquw8rQ

[FLDiamond]

I’m really please for JD and I’m hopeful this young man has a big future.  Yeah, the strike against Falkirk was a stinger.   This whole move has been slow to materialize although I believe it hasn’t hindered our ability to sign others but now that some extra cash (how much is uncertain) has become available the vast majority must be made available for recruitment, especially since we didn’t make it the Quarters of the LC.   I have full faith in Rhys and Dycey but it would be great to sign a ‘known’ player at this level or higher.   All the performances have shown that we can compete and 2 or 3 quality signings will give me every confidence of finishing mid-table or higher. We’ve now lost Smith and JD and their quality needs to be replaced so we can truly say we are strengthening 

[ShineOnYouCrazyDiamonds]

Since a couple of people have mentioned O’Reilly and East - both are left-footed centre backs is that correct? While I agree we could do with another defender I feel a right-footed player might be better to provide cover for Fordyce. I’ve came to the conclusion that Ballantyne is at his best at left back and pressing high into midfield on attack, and I think Hancock has addressed the need to provide cover for ATS. Would still be fairly happy to sign either, particularly East since he’s quite versatile.

[Glenmavis Diamond]

It amazes me that these players bounce about from club to club without signing before the season actually starts. All fair and well holding out for a better deal but given they're not being paid, yoyd think they would make a decision before 3 weeks into the season... 

Mind you, it could be that none of the clubs that have had a look at them have even offered a deal. Just not sure I'd buy that ad there's definitely some good players still without a club. 

Edited August 22, 2023 by Glenmavis Diamond

[Diamonds_Are_Forever]

21 minutes ago, Glenmavis Diamond said:

It amazes me that these players bounce about from club to club without signing before the season actually starts. All fair and well holding out for a better deal but given they're not being paid, yoyd think they would make a decision before 3 weeks into the season... 

Mind you, it could be that none of the clubs that have had a look at them have even offered a deal. Just not sure I'd buy that ad there's definitely some good players still without a club. 

Telfer was the same last year went to acciess then us played in the broadwood cup went back to accies again they never went for him them came back to us 

[airdrieman]

Would agree with the assessment that we’re still in need of additions across the park. Centre mid is where we’ve got our most strength in depth but with McCabe injured and Devenny gone we’re cutting it pretty fine now, as one more injury in there and we’re down to playing every centre mid available. An injury to Frizzell especially and we’re fucked. 

Still could do with another centre-half. I did previously want a left-back but Ballantyne has been a revelation there and with him, Hancock and even Fellows I’m pretty content with our options there. If anything another right-back would be preferable IMO as if Watson is out we’d have to move Ballantyne there, which would necessitate two changes to the team rather than one direct swap. A Watson-like replacement in a player who could play centre-half and right-back would be ideal. East or O’Reilly wouldn’t fit that bill but I’d still take either if offered. 

I’d like another forward too as I do think we suffered in the Dunfermline game from having literally no options to change things around. IMO a forward who can play out wide, a Callum Smith replacement essentially, would be best as while I like McGregor and O’Connor, I still think we can do better. I do get the Connor Smith ‘attitude not fitting into the team’ thing that @thediamonddude mentioned but for me, his attitude and being a bit more ‘cute’ or ‘streetwise’ is actually why I think he’d be a good addition. It’s something that we lack and, while one player probably wouldn’t have made a difference in this particular game, it was one of the facets of their game that helped Ross County beat us on Saturday. Mind you, I’ve been wanting this sort of player since the start of last season and not having one hasn’t really harmed us ultimately so what do I know! 

Hopefully, mainly for @Passionate and @cb_diamond’s sake, we see a few pens out before Saturday

As an aside, I’ve noticed that Joe Cassidy (the reserve player on the bench on Saturday) is also on the books of Consillium so that’s a good laugh if nothing else. 

[cb_diamond]

Just now, airdrieman said:

Hopefully, mainly for @Passionate and @cb_diamond’s sake, we see a few pens out before Saturday
 

Hey, come on now, I've many, many faults (I like arguing with Morton and Falkirk fans, I'm sarcastic, I'm too sexy etc etc) but I'm nowhere near the nihilism level of power pessimist @Passionate pal!

[airdrieman]

On 21/08/2023 at 19:12, par-adise said:

Is he good enough for that move? Genuine question, as if I saw him play against us last season I can't say he stood out particularly. 

Will be interesting to see if Wotherspoon was stalling on us until this deal got over the line and you could spaff all that money on his wages. 

In fairness, I’m not sure there should really be any expectation that he’ll play for Palace. How many academy players at these elite clubs actually do? But from their perspective, he’s a cheap punt who must tick the boxes they look for in a player, and, even if in the future they just end up selling him to a lower level in England/Scotland/Europe/rest of the world, they’ll make a profit or their money back if nothing else. While for him, he gets to develop under top class coaches in the best of facilities whilst living in one of the world‘s great cities. He’s still young enough to develop as a player and he’s been part of the Northern Ireland U21s set-up previously so he’s clearly highly-rated by coaches and managers at a decent level. 

I think, importantly, what might work most in his favour is that he’s already played first team football, in ‘clutch’ games for a team that got promoted. And not only that but he was a regular starter and key player. That’s something that a lot of his team mates and opponents won’t have experienced yet, or never will. And even accounting for it being Scottish League 1, he was actually good which a lot of these academy players down south who’ve played there or in the Championship weren’t. Daniel Boateng, who actually played a first team game for ARSENAL, Eoghan Stokes, Luke Lyons and Jack McKay all came through big English academies and were amongst our worst players during our decade in League 1. None of them made it, and Devenny being good in League 1 doesn’t mean he’ll make it either. But you never know, hopefully it will stand him in good stead and give him a chance of at least having a career at a decent level. He’s a good all-rounder for a midfielder. Good range of passing, athletic, he’s not a destroyer but can get stuck in and he can shoot/score goals. 

All the best to him, it’s a fantastic, exciting and well deserved opportunity. 

[par-adise]

1 hour ago, airdrieman said:

In fairness, I’m not sure there should really be any expectation that he’ll play for Palace. How many academy players at these elite clubs actually do? But from their perspective, he’s a cheap punt who must tick the boxes they look for in a player, and, even if in the future they just end up selling him to a lower level in England/Scotland/Europe/rest of the world, they’ll make a profit or their money back if nothing else. While for him, he gets to develop under top class coaches in the best of facilities whilst living in one of the world‘s great cities. He’s still young enough to develop as a player and he’s been part of the Northern Ireland U21s set-up previously so he’s clearly highly-rated by coaches and managers at a decent level. 

I think, importantly, what might work most in his favour is that he’s already played first team football, in ‘clutch’ games for a team that got promoted. And not only that but he was a regular starter and key player. That’s something that a lot of his team mates and opponents won’t have experienced yet, or never will. And even accounting for it being Scottish League 1, he was actually good which a lot of these academy players down south who’ve played there or in the Championship weren’t. Daniel Boateng, who actually played a first team game for ARSENAL, Eoghan Stokes, Luke Lyons and Jack McKay all came through big English academies and were amongst our worst players during our decade in League 1. None of them made it, and Devenny being good in League 1 doesn’t mean he’ll make it either. But you never know, hopefully it will stand him in good stead and give him a chance of at least having a career at a decent level. He’s a good all-rounder for a midfielder. Good range of passing, athletic, he’s not a destroyer but can get stuck in and he can shoot/score goals. 

All the best to him, it’s a fantastic, exciting and well deserved opportunity. 

Yep fair play to him, hope he does well.

We've had a plethora of very, very average academy players from England too. I assume they just have so much money they essentially take everyone they can get their hands on in the hope one or two come good. 

[cb_diamond]

Just now, par-adise said:

Yep fair play to him, hope he does well.

We've had a plethora of very, very average academy players from England too. I assume they just have so much money they essentially take everyone they can get their hands on in the hope one or two come good. 

AKA the Queen's Park method

[Passionate]

1 hour ago, airdrieman said:

Would agree with the assessment that we’re still in need of additions across the park. Centre mid is where we’ve got our most strength in depth but with McCabe injured and Devenny gone we’re cutting it pretty fine now, as one more injury in there and we’re down to playing every centre mid available. An injury to Frizzell especially and we’re fucked. 

Telfer is playing injured, not training due to a knee injury apparently, he certainly was struggling at end of extra time,,  next man up then is Elliot Dunlop ,  so I agree we need  players,  are you confident of getting them in..

Still could do with another centre-half. I did previously want a left-back but Ballantyne has been a revelation there and with him, Hancock and even Fellows I’m pretty content with our options there. If anything another right-back would be preferable IMO as if Watson is out we’d have to move Ballantyne there, which would necessitate two changes to the team rather than one direct swap. A Watson-like replacement in a player who could play centre-half and right-back would be ideal. East or O’Reilly wouldn’t fit that bill but I’d still take either if offered. 

I’d like another forward too as I do think we suffered in the Dunfermline game from having literally no options to change things around. IMO a forward who can play out wide, a Callum Smith replacement essentially, would be best as while I like McGregor and O’Connor, I still think we can do better. I do get the Connor Smith ‘attitude not fitting into the team’ thing that @thediamonddude mentioned but for me, his attitude and being a bit more ‘cute’ or ‘streetwise’ is actually why I think he’d be a good addition. It’s something that we lack and, while one player probably wouldn’t have made a difference in this particular game, it was one of the facets of their game that helped Ross County beat us on Saturday. Mind you, I’ve been wanting this sort of player since the start of last season and not having one hasn’t really harmed us ultimately so what do I know! 

Hopefully, mainly for @Passionate and @cb_diamond’s sake, we see a few pens out before Saturday

 

As a realist very unlikely,   

As an aside, I’ve noticed that Joe Cassidy (the reserve player on the bench on Saturday) is also on the books of Consillium so that’s a good laugh if nothing else.   

Shock, horror. Is that a remit when signing players...  mmhhh

 

[Diamonds are Forever]

9 hours ago, airdrieman said:

In fairness, I’m not sure there should really be any expectation that he’ll play for Palace. How many academy players at these elite clubs actually do? But from their perspective, he’s a cheap punt who must tick the boxes they look for in a player, and, even if in the future they just end up selling him to a lower level in England/Scotland/Europe/rest of the world, they’ll make a profit or their money back if nothing else. While for him, he gets to develop under top class coaches in the best of facilities whilst living in one of the world‘s great cities. He’s still young enough to develop as a player and he’s been part of the Northern Ireland U21s set-up previously so he’s clearly highly-rated by coaches and managers at a decent level. 

I think, importantly, what might work most in his favour is that he’s already played first team football, in ‘clutch’ games for a team that got promoted. And not only that but he was a regular starter and key player. That’s something that a lot of his team mates and opponents won’t have experienced yet, or never will. And even accounting for it being Scottish League 1, he was actually good which a lot of these academy players down south who’ve played there or in the Championship weren’t. Daniel Boateng, who actually played a first team game for ARSENAL, Eoghan Stokes, Luke Lyons and Jack McKay all came through big English academies and were amongst our worst players during our decade in League 1. None of them made it, and Devenny being good in League 1 doesn’t mean he’ll make it either. But you never know, hopefully it will stand him in good stead and give him a chance of at least having a career at a decent level. He’s a good all-rounder for a midfielder. Good range of passing, athletic, he’s not a destroyer but can get stuck in and he can shoot/score goals. 

All the best to him, it’s a fantastic, exciting and well deserved opportunity. 

 

Really well put. The way big clubs operate now isn't really to do with developing players for their first team, it's a business - develop younger players, stick them out on loan to get their value up and sell them on at a profit. If they turn out to be exceptional and make the first team that's a bonus. Just had a quick look and Palace have about 60 players listed on their website just in their Under 18s and Under 21s alone, who will all be full-time. You might get 1 or 2 breaking through but generally they'll all be moved on.

As you say, I think the thing that will really help him is having played Senior football and very important games. I don't know what level he will be technically in comparison to the players down there, but that will definitely give him an edge that they don't yet have.

[AirdrieFanTV]

 

[Kenny_m]

4 hours ago, Diamonds are Forever said:

 

Really well put. The way big clubs operate now isn't really to do with developing players for their first team, it's a business - develop younger players, stick them out on loan to get their value up and sell them on at a profit. If they turn out to be exceptional and make the first team that's a bonus. Just had a quick look and Palace have about 60 players listed on their website just in their Under 18s and Under 21s alone, who will all be full-time. You might get 1 or 2 breaking through but generally they'll all be moved on.

As you say, I think the thing that will really help him is having played Senior football and very important games. I don't know what level he will be technically in comparison to the players down there, but that will definitely give him an edge that they don't yet have.

Chelsea have had this exact business model for years where they would have loads of academy/under 21's on their books which had little or no chance of making their 1st team. They were however looking to develop, loan and sell them on, perhaps to Championship level, therefore making a profit.

Who knows how good Justin can become but a great opportunity for him and I'm convinced that once he develops physically he will improve greatly and I look forward to following his progress.