Puppet Jack

[git-intae-thum]

9 minutes ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

So surely the failed Darien scheme is an example of Scottish Imperialism then?

New Caledonia, New Edinburgh etc.. all sounds colonialistic to me.

Scottish imperialism??Is this an attempt at alternate history?

The local Guna tribe in Darien welcomed the Scots, helped them fight off the Spanish, tried to feed them when their harvests failed and still remember them as allies to this day. This was not a colony in the style of the English or later the British in the Carribean.

Obviously Scots did shamefully take part in slavery and colonialism. But they did so as Britons .....under the auspices of British imperialism.

[RuMoore]

As if you thought this thread couldn't get any worse...

[StellarHibee]

2 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

As if you thought this thread couldn't get any worse...

... you show up.

[RuMoore]

2 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

... you show up.

 

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Stop stealing Kincy's thing.

[SandyCromarty]

5 hours ago, CarrbridgeSaintee said:

So surely the failed Darien scheme is an example of Scottish Imperialism then?

New Caledonia, New Edinburgh etc.. all sounds colonialistic to me.

Read my post, I said there was an attempt which drastically,( for Scotland), failed miserably. After that there was no further desire to colonise, however to give you some argument it is right that Scots worked and lived in what were english colonies, tea planters, the Dundonian Jute managers inn Calcutta and managers at all levels in India and Africa.

I think you're of a generation that wants to regard colonisation as slavery as a whole, you'd be right in thinking that some were bad and brutal to the populace but other countries benefitted, Singapore for example is a leading wealthy nation in the Far East, I have visited many of these former colonies and some thrive and others have disintegrated and are riddled with Corruption and Murder, Nigeria is one. 

I assume for New Edinburgh you mean Dunedin in NZ which is a miserable city imo, and one which I couldn't get out of fast enough. The city was founded by Scots.

I had to look up New Caledonia and found it was discovered and named by Captain Cook, so no Scottish connection there.

Next week I'll be revisiting the Scottish town in France Aubigny from here in the Loire Atlantique, I urge you to look the town up and see the benefit the Scots brought to the town which is still revered to this day.

Edited June 17, 2023 by SandyCromarty

[moses1924]

11 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

After that there was no further desire to colonise

Have to disagree there, it wasn't a lack of desire to colonise bu a lack of resources to do so

[SandyCromarty]

49 minutes ago, moses1924 said:

Have to disagree there, it wasn't a lack of desire to colonise bu a lack of resources to do so

How did the hairsplitters convention work out for you?

[moses1924]

2 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

How did the hairsplitters convention work out for you?

It's not splitting hairs to point out that had Scotland had the resources to pursue an empire abroad they would have, we aren't any better than any other European country in somehow choosing not to do so because it was morally the right thing to do, we simply did not have the resources to do it.

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, moses1924 said:

It's not splitting hairs to point out that had Scotland had the resources to pursue an empire abroad they would have, we aren't any better than any other European country in somehow choosing not to do so because it was morally the right thing to do, we simply did not have the resources to do it.

You have to recognise what colonisation is, it is establishing control over a people of an area, and that exactly what has happened in Scotland where english parliamentary interference has exercised it's majority over us, the only area we have kept to ourselves as a country is Scots Law which is based on Roman Law which gives judges absolute freedom in judicial decisions unhampered by prcedence.

So that's political but lets look at the physical, Culloden was a decisive battle which the then Government forces won, but it was the destructive aftermath that has been written out of history, the highlands were murderously ransacked with ho living thing spared, one instance was when two english battleships appeared outside a small settlement nearer the west, they pounded that settlement incessantly to rubble and then sent men in to slaughter the livestock and raze the crops, the absolute innocent men, women and children had already taken to the hills and faced death through starvation.

And now you have Gruppenfuhrer Jack out to f**k with Scotlands parliament.

A Union is a shared entity not one partner imposing it's will on another without consultation, it's how Hitler conducted business.

[SandyCromarty]

The westminster government passes a bill to abolish water rates.

The Scottish Parliament as a full partner of the Union disagrees and invokes article 111 to stop the bill and westminster has to back down.

Imagine the outcry and screams of bullying by the sweaties.

That's the world we Scots live in.

[RuMoore]

There's of course a nuanced debate that can be had about the subject but the idea Scotland isn't complicit in colonialism with the rest of the UK and bringing out Hitler patter is never a good luck or a compelling argument. 

I don't think these views are representative of the majority of Indy supporters so I'll avoid any sweeping statements but these minority types don't appreciate how ludicrous this patter is and how they really don't do much for the wider cause. 

[StellarHibee]

16 minutes ago, RuMoore said:

There's of course a nuanced debate that can be had about the subject but the idea Scotland isn't complicit in colonialism with the rest of the UK and bringing out Hitler patter is never a good luck or a compelling argument. 

I don't think these views are representative of the majority of Indy supporters so I'll avoid any sweeping statements but these minority types don't appreciate how ludicrous this patter is and how they really don't do much for the wider cause. 

No as long as unionists have the likes of the Orange Order on their side to tip the scales in their favour.

[Guest]

I recommend giving this a listen. It might make you bristle but if it helps, the creator actually favours independence (he doesn't go into it here but has said elsewhere). He arrives at that position by material analysis, though. Therefore he's not hostage to the historical revisionism some of the more identity-driven independence supporters rely upon.

Edited June 17, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[RuMoore]

18 minutes ago, StellarHibee said:

No as long as unionists have the likes of the Orange Order on their side to tip the scales in their favour.

It's not really relevant to the current conversation, you can play whataboutery if you'd like, personally I have no issues with calling out the nutters on both sides. 

If people aren't willing to accept this then the debate becomes some boring race to the bottom top trumps style pointless convo. 

[SandyCromarty]

Just now, RuMoore said:

There's of course a nuanced debate that can be had about the subject but the idea Scotland isn't complicit in colonialism with the rest of the UK and bringing out Hitler patter is never a good luck or a compelling argument. 

I don't think these views are representative of the majority of Indy supporters so I'll avoid any sweeping statements but these minority types don't appreciate how ludicrous this patter is and how they really don't do much for the wider cause. 

Politically and financially my family take an active stance on Independence, one of us holds a senior SNP position and I am a member of the Futures Forum, so we are active in our beliefs.

What is your contribution other than a keyboard warrior.

[Fullerene]

7 hours ago, SandyCromarty said:

I think you're of a generation that wants to regard colonisation as slavery as a whole, you'd be right in thinking that some were bad and brutal to the populace but other countries benefitted, Singapore for example is a leading wealthy nation in the Far East, I have visited many of these former colonies and some thrive and others have disintegrated and are riddled with Corruption and Murder, Nigeria is one.

When Singapore was expelled from Malaysia in 1965, it had none of the skyscrapers that we see today, nor the shopping malls, modern airport or modern subway system.  Back then the Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew cried.  He thought it would become an overcrowded drug and disease infested cesspit that everybody would try to avoid.  No doubt he was a controversial figure but he was far more relevant to why Singapore is the country it is today as opposed to the time when it was a British Colony.

[Guest]

Nowhere benefitted from colonialism. The entire point of it is to extract wealth from the colony to the metropole. 

[Johnny Martin]

1 hour ago, StellarHibee said:

No as long as unionists have the likes of the Orange Order on their side to tip the scales in their favour.

Your true bigoted nature shining through for all to see.

[RuMoore]

56 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said:

Politically and financially my family take an active stance on Independence, one of us holds a senior SNP position and I am a member of the Futures Forum, so we are active in our beliefs.

What is your contribution other than a keyboard warrior.

Well on that first point hopefully you don't get arrested...

The second point is that it's not being a keyboard warrior to point out your contributions are utterly shite and distasteful. You are the exact type of person most Indy supporters find repulsive to their cause.