Batshit Mental Away Supporter Rules

[Forfinn]

There are many and varied problems with this, as has been pointed out, but the lack of any sort of evidence base is a pretty fundamental issue.

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The majority of football fans are law abiding and do not intend to cause disturbances whilst travelling to or from games, but a small minority can be disruptive and impact the enjoyment of others.

This is of course true, but you could substitute "football fans" for "rugby fans" or "shoppers" or "toddlers at soft play". Is the level of anti-social behaviour at football in Scotland so bad it merits special measures, relative to other walks of life? Maybe it is, but show us the evidence.

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[In England and Wales] The guidelines provide useful reference to operators, transport managers, drivers and those that represent them. This approach has worked well, and it has seldom been necessary for a traffic commissioner to take regulatory action against an operator who has contravened the guidelines.

Has it worked well? Should we just take their word for it? Show us the evidence. (and who defines what "well" means in this context?)

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There is however concern that incidents of football related violence and disorder do still occur and may be increasing.

Who's concerned? And "may be increasing"? This implies they don't actually know. Surely some research should have been done to determine that either way?

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The Senior Traffic Commissioner now considers it appropriate to consider a consistent approach across Great Britain.

Based on what? A vague feeling it might be necessary? In the age of devolution, simply having a "consistent approach across Great Britain" is not a policy justification. It may or may not be justified in England and Wales, but if they want to now introduce it in Scotland there should be a sound rationale setting out why that is an appropriate approach, based on the situation in Scotland.

[Forfinn]

9 minutes ago, mizfit said:

I get the impression this is backtracking. 

An SNP MP has absolutely nothing to do with something put out by the Traffic Commissioners of Great Britain, an independent regulator that reports in to the UK Government's Department of Transport.

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

19 minutes ago, mizfit said:

I get the impression this is backtracking. 

I get the impression you've not read the proposal. 

 

[mizfit]

Just now, SJFCtheTeamForMe said:

I get the impression you've not read the proposal. 

 

Oh I have. I just don’t believe the snp wouldn’t have backed this if fans didn’t kick up a stink overnight. 

[Steve McQueen]

Does this also apply to 'home' fans who decided to support a team so far away from them they have to get a bus?

[RawB93]

2 hours ago, DA Baracus said:

Surely a matter of time now until some tit suggests that all football fans be banned from pubs on match days? Hopefully any such suggestion would be laughed at.

I mean a lot of city/town centre pubs already don’t allow ‘football colours’

[Dunfermline Don]

Was the  second Falkirk-Dunfermline game not treated like this. I am pretty sure no Pars buses or supporters were allowed into Grangemouth/Falkirk before the game and had to go straight to the ground.

 

[Pens_Dark]

1 minute ago, Steve McQueen said:

Does this also apply to 'home' fans who decided to support a team so far away from them they have to get a bus?

There's a thought. Maybe this should only apply to Celtic and Rangers fans who travel three hours by bus to Glasgow every other week. The worst kind of people.

[RawB93]

4 minutes ago, Pens_Dark said:

There's a thought. Maybe this should only apply to Celtic and Rangers fans who travel three hours by bus to Glasgow every other week. The worst kind of people.

Think of the emissions! 
I think we already knew they were the most pollutant fan bases, though. 

[Bairnardo]

Unsure if covered already but worth remembering that this is coming in the same week as we are being told about trials where Police just aren't going to bother investigating some crimes. 

The idea that at a time when we all know the likes of home invasions get barely a second look, with trials towards making that actual policy, resources are being diverted towards OTT surveillance of groups of people who have and for the vast majority do intend to commit anything approaching a crime is the most insulting, nasty pile of shite imaginable. 

Get this in the fucking bin immediately and make it clear to people that you don't intend to treat them this way. 

[Empty It]

We're not going to investigate crime we don't think is worth our while but we're going to follow football fans around the country to catch them having a pint, very weird.

Surely Police Scotland should be kicking up about this as it would mean a higher workload for nothing?

Can't help but think the Glasweigan police would love it considering they're all massive c***s whenever football is involved.

[Pens_Dark]

10 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

Unsure if covered already but worth remembering that this is coming in the same week as we are being told about trials where Police just aren't going to bother investigating some crimes. 

The idea that at a time when we all know the likes of home invasions get barely a second look, with trials towards making that actual policy, resources are being diverted towards OTT surveillance of groups of people who have and for the vast majority do intend to commit anything approaching a crime is the most insulting, nasty pile of shite imaginable. 

Get this in the fucking bin immediately and make it clear to people that you don't intend to treat them this way. 

The systematic approach to cutting service to curtail crime and then in turn, create it somewhere else where you will largely find...you're right...no fucking crime is utterly ridiculous. 

Is this subsidised in any way by SFA or the clubs? I can't imagine it would be but this would surely be the only reason why they would be giving themselves extra work. 

[SJFCtheTeamForMe]

This absolutely reeks of new legislation to try and resolve the fact they're upset the existing legislation around alcohol being banned on buses isn't followed/enforced. 

Not really sure there's a problem that needs resolved here? just don't get it. 

Not sure these people have a clue how supporters buses work, like others have mentioned especially for the smaller clubs. If you legislate and make things even more difficult the buses just won't exist anymore. 

If there's so many rules that it makes it even more hard work and more difficult they just won't bother running them. 

Same with the punters. If it becomes heavily influenced by rule after rule it just ruins it so people won't bother using them. 

The public transport alternative isn't good enough either. 

[Captain_Sensible]

1 hour ago, Forfinn said:

There are many and varied problems with this, as has been pointed out, but the lack of any sort of evidence base is a pretty fundamental issue.

Bringing in lockdowns shows that the government can bring in draconian restrictions of civil liberties without any sort of evidence base to back it up.

 

[Dons_1988]

4 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Bringing in lockdowns shows that the government can bring in draconian restrictions of civil liberties without any sort of evidence base to back it up.

 

Not sure that’s the same. Every country has provisions to be used in an emergency which is what covid fell under at the time (not getting into an argument about the necessity of that for covid!). They were able to convince parliament there was a reasonable expectation of hundreds of thousands of deaths imminent. 

Im not sure this falls into that category. 

[Sortmeout]

Any of the former members of Tayside Police who are now officers with Police Scotland will actually be literally masterbating at this news. 
 

Literally.

[DA Baracus]

49 minutes ago, Dunfermline Don said:

Was the  second Falkirk-Dunfermline game not treated like this. I am pretty sure no Pars buses or supporters were allowed into Grangemouth/Falkirk before the game and had to go straight to the ground.

 

Maybe with buses that was the case but me and 4 friends all had pints in Falkirk before that game (we all got the train), and there were some other Pars fans who did likewise.

The police presence at the game did seem a bit mental though, with horses and drone and cordons and barriers. Despite the shouting and posturing there isn't that much trouble in this fixture. It's just a few fannies on either side trying to act hard. 

We got the bus after the game back in to Falkirk town centre. Aside from a couple of comical wind ups, we had a laugh with the Falkirk fans we spoke with in the queue and on the bus.

[forkboy]

8 minutes ago, Captain_Sensible said:

Bringing in lockdowns shows that the government can bring in draconian restrictions of civil liberties without any sort of evidence base to back it up.

 

I didn't know Neil Oliver posted on here

[Todd_is_God]

56 minutes ago, Steve McQueen said:

Does this also apply to 'home' fans who decided to support a team so far away from them they have to get a bus?

The example given is that of an Aberdeen bus travelling up from Arbroath, so it appears so.

[greendot]

Not entirely sure what the fuss is about with this as the Sporting Events (Control of Alcohol) Act 1995 already deals with those exact issues.  The bus companies have them written into their terms and conditions for years when theyre being hired out for football crowds so whichever supporters club representatives deal with transport for your club would have already agreed to the conditions laid out in that twitter post.