The Strange Case of Tom Cairney

[ArabFC]

Had Fulham v Wolves on in the background and was reminded of Tom Cairney who won MotM.

It seems strange that a guy that has played his entire career in either the Premier League or the top end of the Championship only has two caps. And he’s generally been captain of his club for much of that time.

Truth be told I can’t even remember his two appearances but I’m presuming they weren’t great, but strikes me as odd that a guy playing at the level he has never made any impact on the national side.

[2426255]

9 hours ago, ArabFC said:

Had Fulham v Wolves on in the background and was reminded of Tom Cairney who won MotM.

It seems strange that a guy that has played his entire career in either the Premier League or the top end of the Championship only has two caps. And he’s generally been captain of his club for much of that time.

Truth be told I can’t even remember his two appearances but I’m presuming they weren’t great, but strikes me as odd that a guy playing at the level he has never made any impact on the national side.

Not that strange. If he had wanted to he could have been a good Scotland player, but I don't think he was motivated to play internationally for Scotland. He has ability and is a good player. Perhaps he was pushed into international football by others, he'll know the reasons it never worked out.

Like someone else said about Elliot Anderson. He maybe just didn't have the feeling for Scotland and then you just have to go your seperate ways. Part of the risk around recruiting players using the granny rule, you have to just take it on the chin if you want the upside. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by 2426255

[Quentin Taranbino]

There was a time when he should definitely have merited a call up based on form - when he was at Blackburn and then went on to sign for Fulham. That two or three year spell from 2014 - 2017, he was red hot but for whatever reason was never called up. Think West Ham bid about 18mill for him after his debut season at Fulham.

He eventually got the call up late 2017 I believe but the following season was when he started getting injuries and was in and out the team more as Fulham got into the Premier League and yo-yo'd between that and Championship. He never quite captured that early form imo although has been a solid enough player over the years.

[Londonwell]

2 hours ago, ArabFC said:

Had Fulham v Wolves on in the background and was reminded of Tom Cairney who won MotM.

It seems strange that a guy that has played his entire career in either the Premier League or the top end of the Championship only has two caps. And he’s generally been captain of his club for much of that time.

Truth be told I can’t even remember his two appearances but I’m presuming they weren’t great, but strikes me as odd that a guy playing at the level he has never made any impact on the national side.

I’m sure one of his caps was the Costa Rica friendly we lost one nil. I remember thinking that he looked distinctly uninterested that night and was never really seen again. Was probably turned off by what was a far gloomier time to be involved in the national setup for both players and fans. 

[BB_Bino]

I might be totally making this up but I’m sure I read/heard somewhere that he told Gordon Strachen that he didn’t want to be selected after withdrawing from a few squads, seemed to be a similar relationship to what Steven Fletcher had with Craig Levein. He was called up under Alex McLeish but asked him to forget it when they returned to their clubs.

[AMMjag]

Tom Cairney is a time vortex. If we call him up, the second he touches the ball we'll all be spun back to the 2018 Costa Rica friendly and everything that has since happened will be lost.

Edited November 28, 2023 by AMMjag

[No_Problemo]

10 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Not that strange. If he had wanted to he could have been a good Scotland player, but I don't think he was motivated to play internationally for Scotland. He has ability and is a good player. Perhaps he was pushed into international football by others, he'll know the reasons it never worked out.

Like someone else said about Elliot Anderson. He maybe just didn't have the feeling for Scotland and then you just have to go your seperate ways. Part of the risk around recruiting players using the granny rule, you have to just take it on the chin if you want the upside. 

Cairney is eligible through his Dad being Scottish. 

ETA, he also made six appearances for the 21’s and two for the 29’s so I don’t imagine he’s a commitment issue. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by No_Problemo

[2426255]

49 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Cairney is eligible through his Dad being Scottish. 

ETA, he also made six appearances for the 21’s and two for the 29’s so I don’t imagine he’s a commitment issue. 

Thanks - I meant someone who is eligible through bloodline, but doesn't have an attachment for the country - you're quite right to pick me up on that as it's a mistake on my part. Playing for the u-21's doesn't really mean anything particularly to me. 5 years passed between his involvement at u-21 and senior level and we've seen with Elliot Anderson that u-21 caps isn't an indicator of the future. 

If you don't think he had a lack of commitment and it was something else then that's fine, not going to argue with you over it. I just think he was never committed enough to make a success of being a Scotland international player. Maybe he just enjoyed having time off on the international windows to play golf more than play in qualification campaigns. Maybe he was conflicted, part of him wanting to make his dad proud and the other part of him wanting to do his own thing.  Who knows? who really cares?

Edited November 28, 2023 by 2426255

[No_Problemo]

16 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Thanks - I meant someone who is eligible through bloodline, but doesn't have an attachment for the country - you're quite right to pick me up on that as it's a mistake on my part. Playing for the u-21's doesn't really mean anything particularly to me. 5 years passed between his involvement at u-21 and senior level and we've seen with Elliot Anderson that u-21 caps isn't an indicator of the future. 

If you don't think he had a lack of commitment and it was something else then that's fine, not going to argue with you over it. I just think he was never committed enough to make a success of being a Scotland international player. Maybe he just enjoyed having time off on the international windows to play golf more than play in qualification campaigns. Maybe he was conflicted, part of him wanting to make his dad proud and the other part of him wanting to do his own thing.  Who knows? who really cares?

I suppose a Scottish parent can be an indication, but ultimately you never know without actually speaking to the person.

Yeah - fair point on the 21’s thing, it seems many young players use it as a means of development. 

I don’t actually care either tbf!

[Jives Miguel]

Its not that strange, he's just pish and looked like he could not be any less arsed in the chances he did get. He was not a better player than Brown, McArthur or Fletcher, and isn't a better player than any of our current options

He was just another of the numerous players down the years whose level is that of a Championship pubstomper who can't make the step up to the EPL, See also Graham Dorrans, Jordan Rhodes, Ross McCormack who also never made any impact for Scotland

[DiegoDiego]

Funnily enough last night was the first EPL game I've watched in years (was on in the hotel bar). It ten minutes in I thought "I wonder what that Tom Cairney chap is up to these days?"

In other news, Canal+ coverage of the EPL is called "Match of ze day".

[2426255]

1 hour ago, No_Problemo said:

I suppose a Scottish parent can be an indication, but ultimately you never know without actually speaking to the person.

Yeah - fair point on the 21’s thing, it seems many young players use it as a means of development. 

I don’t actually care either tbf!

It's open to interpretation. If's, but's and maybe's. Was he good enough? probably yes. Was there an issue with management? probably not. Was he committed enough? possibly not. Something else? possibly yes. Cairney was called up by Steve Clarke I for his first squad against Cyprus and Belgium, even made the 23-man squad for Cyprus - but I don't believe he was ever called up or used after that. 

[ArabFC]

2 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

Its not that strange, he's just pish and looked like he could not be any less arsed in the chances he did get. He was not a better player than Brown, McArthur or Fletcher, and isn't a better player than any of our current options

He was just another of the numerous players down the years whose level is that of a Championship pubstomper who can't make the step up to the EPL, See also Graham Dorrans, Jordan Rhodes, Ross McCormack who also never made any impact for Scotland

He's played around 100 games in the Premier League, captaining his side for the most part - he can't be that pish. 

If he just wasn't interested in playing international fitba fair enough, but that is a little strange.

[Jives Miguel]

38 minutes ago, ArabFC said:

He's played around 100 games in the Premier League, captaining his side for the most part - he can't be that pish. 

If he just wasn't interested in playing international fitba fair enough, but that is a little strange.

Majority of them off the bench though, for what has been (mostly) a rank rotten Fulham team.

 

 

[Lex]

1 hour ago, ArabFC said:

He's played around 100 games in the Premier League, captaining his side for the most part - he can't be that pish. 

If he just wasn't interested in playing international fitba fair enough, but that is a little strange.

Yeah he's certainly better than many players of a similar age who have more caps than him.  I think your last sentence is right, he's English and he was never that arsed about playing for Scotland. He's 33 in a couple of months, so he won't be playing for us again. 

[Jives Miguel]

53 minutes ago, Lex said:

Yeah he's certainly better than many players of a similar age who have more caps than him.  I think your last sentence is right, he's English and he was never that arsed about playing for Scotland. He's 33 in a couple of months, so he won't be playing for us again. 

This is a wild statement imo. He isn't better than anyone in he current squad. Nor was he better than Fletcher, Brown, Morrison or McArthur in midfield between 2014-17. Nor was he better than Armstrong, Naismith, Maloney, Snodgrass or Ritchie to play behind the striker. He was maybe better than Barry Bannan and Dorrans, but neither of those were exactly regulars, and they equally been at times amongst the best plauers in the Championship

He was found out in the PL as a luxury player with poor physicality and defensive ability. Yes he was good in the Championship, but I think people are overrating the quality of that league hugely again.

[JamesM82]

Classic case of good champ player, bad EPL player, which isn't usually good enough for Scotland. Not in midfield anyway. Graham Dorrans played (and started) more games in the EPL, there was no suggestion he wasn't "committed", and he only got 12 caps scattered across 7 years.

[Frankie S]

14 hours ago, Jives Miguel said:

Its not that strange, he's just pish and looked like he could not be any less arsed in the chances he did get.

Nonsense. ‘The chances he did get’ number exactly two appearances for Scotland, both in friendlies. I was at the Scotland v Canada friendly (1-1 draw) at Easter Road in 2017 and while no-one particularly distinguished themselves that night, Cairney was clearly one of  the better players on the park. He set up a good chance for Chris Martin, who failed to take it, and his shot was turned in by Naismith for our goal. The Daily Record player ratings (Cairney was the top Scotland player rated with 7/10) and the report on the BBC website both agree with my assessment. The suggestion that he ‘looked like couldn’t be any less arsed’ stuff is just rubbish. 

Ability-wise (as 80+ appearances in the EPL testify), he was clearly good enough to have earned more than two caps.

[Jives Miguel]

8 hours ago, Frankie S said:

Nonsense. ‘The chances he did get’ number exactly two appearances for Scotland, both in friendlies. I was at the Scotland v Canada friendly (1-1 draw) at Easter Road in 2017 and while no-one particularly distinguished themselves that night, Cairney was clearly one of  the better players on the park. He set up a good chance for Chris Martin, who failed to take it, and his shot was turned in by Naismith for our goal. The Daily Record player ratings (Cairney was the top Scotland player rated with 7/10) and the report on the BBC website both agree with my assessment. The suggestion that he ‘looked like couldn’t be any less arsed’ stuff is just rubbish. 

Ability-wise (as 80+ appearances in the EPL testify), he was clearly good enough to have earned more than two caps.

 

 

Refer to:

 

"Nor was he better than Fletcher, Brown, Morrison or McArthur in midfield between 2014-17. Nor was he better than Armstrong, Naismith, Maloney, Snodgrass or Ritchie to play behind the striker. He was maybe better than Barry Bannan and Dorrans, but neither of those were exactly regulars, and they equally been at times amongst the best plauers in the Championship"

 

Mental how desperate people are on this part of the forum to drop their pants for any old crap EPL player. 16 starts for the Fulham team who were relegated in March!!!!!! Get him in the team!!!!!!!

[Ewanandmoreagain]

IIRC he was not quick /. active enough 

He was not all action

Edited November 29, 2023 by Ewanandmoreagain