Celtic V Rangers - Sat 30th December

[Wee-Bey]

The Bernardo one isn't a yellow for me, he's closing down the ball and Goldson follows through on him.

The Johnston one is more of a yellow, although the mitigation is that his eyes are on the ball and seems unaware of Sima on his blind side. He's using his arms for leverage, as he's entitled to do.

It's marginal stuff. 

[Clangers]

I would love to live in a world were both OF (there reference) don’t live in a situation where they are both some how the underdogs from referees, this is despite everyone outside their little obsession just looking on with a level disgust that it’s now just a fact. 
I don’t think irony is a Glasgow thing.

[AJF]

6 hours ago, velo army said:

 

It's a bit depressing how Rangers fans are focussing so much on marginal reffing decisions instead of, perhaps, their own club and board for spending money on a squad of random shite. Even Tavernier, free-kick aside (which was brilliant) was dreadful today. 

We’ve done that to death this season, in fairness. I don’t think you’ll find a single Rangers fan that hasn’t been critical of our transfer business. I don’t think that should preclude us from talking about the match events though, should it?

And I’ll say it again, I don’t think we deserved anything from the game, but surely a match thread’s purpose is to discuss events that happened during a match rather than focus on other things that have already been done to death.

[VincentGuerin]

52 minutes ago, AJF said:

We’ve done that to death this season, in fairness. I don’t think you’ll find a single Rangers fan that hasn’t been critical of our transfer business. I don’t think that should preclude us from talking about the match events though, should it?

And I’ll say it again, I don’t think we deserved anything from the game, but surely a match thread’s purpose is to discuss events that happened during a match rather than focus on other things that have already been done to death.

Not singling Rangers fans out here, but I think "match events" has come to basically mean refereeing decisions these days.

After Old firm games we always get minute focus on decisions that are marginal and could have gone either way from the team that lost. Hearts fans today doing the same about the penalty we should have got, but we should be beating Ross County at home regardless.

Rangers lost a goal from failing to mark at a corner (really fucking failing to mark, f**k me) and wasted multiple good positions in attack. That's why they got beat. The focus on decisions, from all fans and coaches, is often to miss the real point.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Not singling Rangers fans out here, but I think "match events" has come to basically mean refereeing decisions these days.

After Old firm games we always get minute focus on decisions that are marginal and could have gone either way from the team that lost. Hearts fans today doing the same about the penalty we should have got, but we should be beating Ross County at home regardless.

Rangers lost a goal from failing to mark at a corner (really fucking failing to mark, f**k me) and wasted multiple good positions in attack. That's why they got beat. The focus on decisions, from all fans and coaches, is often to miss the real point.

I absolutely agree that’s why we got beat, I’ve already said as much in that I don’t think we deserved much from the game. I just don’t agree with the viewpoint that refereeing decisions can’t or shouldn’t be discussed in a match thread (as well as the other stuff you mention). They are quite clearly talking points relevant at the time.

I just didn’t understand why it was suggested we should be focusing on our transfer failings when 1) that has already been covered at great length this season, and 2) a match thread is literally there to discuss the match (which includes refereeing decisions)

[Dons_1988]

18 minutes ago, AJF said:

I absolutely agree that’s why we got beat, I’ve already said as much in that I don’t think we deserved much from the game. I just don’t agree with the viewpoint that refereeing decisions can’t or shouldn’t be discussed in a match thread (as well as the other stuff you mention). They are quite clearly talking points relevant at the time.

I just didn’t understand why it was suggested we should be focusing on our transfer failings when 1) that has already been covered at great length this season, and 2) a match thread is literally there to discuss the match (which includes refereeing decisions)

They can be mentioned but the truth is there’s almost an entire media industry being built around debating refereeing decisions as if they are the key factor in deciding games. 

Thats how we end up with VAR, when fans, players and managers are allowed to give it such prominence that the authorities invest in a shambles technology to attempt to counter it. 

[AJF]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

They can be mentioned but the truth is there’s almost an entire media industry being built around debating refereeing decisions as if they are the key factor in deciding games. 

Thats how we end up with VAR, when fans, players and managers are allowed to give it such prominence that the authorities invest in a shambles technology to attempt to counter it. 

Absolutely. I think I’ve made my thoughts clear that I’d have VAR punted immediately. That aside, though, discussing refereeing decisions and feeling aggrieved is just in a football fans nature. I’d be doing the same with or without VAR

[Dons_1988]

5 minutes ago, AJF said:

Absolutely. I think I’ve made my thoughts clear that I’d have VAR punted immediately. That aside, though, discussing refereeing decisions and feeling aggrieved is just in a football fans nature. I’d be doing the same with or without VAR

Yeah but VAR is a product of this. The outrage over referees is absolutely exploited by the media to create a frenzy. Managers then try and use that to their advantage to deflect etc. VAR is a response to that. 

Without wanting to sound preachy, I believe if you hate VAR then you should make a conscious effort not to dwell on these. I thought we should’ve possibly had a pen at 1-0 yesterday but not mentioned it here as we lost 3-0 ffs, I’d look an idiot.

‘evening themselves out’ isn’t a thing, but I do believe that while decisions can be significant in games, over a league season you’ll accumulate roughly the points the quality of your team deserves. 

[Squalor Vic]

8 hours ago, Chris Partlow said:

The Bernardo one isn't a yellow for me, he's closing down the ball and Goldson follows through on him.

The Johnston one is more of a yellow, although the mitigation is that his eyes are on the ball and seems unaware of Sima on his blind side. He's using his arms for leverage, as he's entitled to do.

It's marginal stuff. 

You've just described why the Johnston one isn't a yellow.

It's the usual straw clutching from a beaten Rangers or Celtic team

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Yeah but VAR is a product of this. The outrage over referees is absolutely exploited by the media to create a frenzy. Managers then try and use that to their advantage to deflect etc. VAR is a response to that. 

Without wanting to sound preachy, I believe if you hate VAR then you should make a conscious effort not to dwell on these. I thought we should’ve possibly had a pen at 1-0 yesterday but not mentioned it here as we lost 3-0 ffs, I’d look an idiot.

‘evening themselves out’ isn’t a thing, but I do believe that while decisions can be significant in games, over a league season you’ll accumulate roughly the points the quality of your team deserves. 

I agree to an extent, though I think the underlying reasons we ended up with VAR are slightly different - but connected.

We survived quite happily for decades complaining about referee decisions following games. I genuinely think it’s when football fans are in their natural element, discussing contentions points following a match, be that at a pub following the game, online or wherever.

What I think led to VAR is the obscene amounts of money now involved in the game that puts more pressure on the need for every decision to be correct.

I thought football was bonkers when Sheffield Utd ended up taking legal action against West Ham after the Tevez transfer fiasco and their resulting relegation. After this, I don’t think it would be a stretch for a football club to take similar action if they ended up relegated (or similar) on the back of an incorrect refereeing decision.

I think money, rather than solely media influence, led to where we are now. Which is a shame.

[AJF]

3 minutes ago, Squalor Vic said:

You've just described why the Johnston one isn't a yellow.

It's the usual straw clutching from a beaten Rangers or Celtic team

I think the Johnstone one is a yellow on the basis that he doesn’t win the header, he missed the ball and then catches Sima with his flailing elbow. It’s something we see Dykes yellow carded for in just about every single Scotland match.

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, AJF said:

I agree to an extent, though I think the underlying reasons we ended up with VAR are slightly different - but connected.

We survived quite happily for decades complaining about referee decisions following games. I genuinely think it’s when football fans are in their natural element, discussing contentions points following a match, be that at a pub following the game, online or wherever.

What I think led to VAR is the obscene amounts of money now involved in the game that puts more pressure on the need for every decision to be correct.

I thought football was bonkers when Sheffield Utd ended up taking legal action against West Ham after the Tevez transfer fiasco and their resulting relegation. After this, I don’t think it would be a stretch for a football club to take similar action if they ended up relegated (or similar) on the back of an incorrect refereeing decision.

I think money, rather than solely media influence, led to where we are now. Which is a shame.

Yeah that is fair. Money is a significant element. There’s the sport of football and the business of football and imo VAR is very much the business of football. It does absolutely nothing for the sport. 

But as you say it’s all connected, and I think fans have to accept our share of the blame for where it’s gone. Not that it makes a blind bit of difference, but I try hard not to focus too much on refereeing decisions anyway. 

[houston_bud]

What we heard ad nauseam when people were arguing for VAR is that we just want to get to the right decision. But now we see when a decision goes against a team their argument frequently shifts to one about 'process' or 'transparency'.

This isn't just a dig at Rangers, loads of pundits, managers and fans do the same. It's almost as if they just want decisions to go their way. Who'd have thought it?

Edited December 31, 2023 by houston_bud

[bennett]

13 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

What we heard ad nauseam when people were arguing for VAR is that we just want to get to the right decision. But now we see when a decision goes against a team their argument frequently shifts to one about 'process' or 'transparency'.

This isn't just a dig at Rangers, loads of pundits, managers and fans do the same. It's almost as if they just want decisions to go their way. Who'd have thought it?

Everytime Rangers get a decision in their favour it's a national talking point for weeks, yet we're expected to just move on after yesterday and not mention it.

The SFA need to release the audio from the VAR team because their multiple versions of what happened don't add up. 

 

[houston_bud]

6 minutes ago, bennett said:

Everytime Rangers get a decision in their favour it's a national talking point for weeks, yet we're expected to just move on after yesterday and not mention it.

The SFA need to release the audio from the VAR team because their multiple versions of what happened don't add up. 

But it was the right decision not to award the penalty. Surely everyone agrees with that?

[doulikefish]

The people really had high expectations of winning yesterday and there mumping about Var is testament to that ...it's always good to watch them suffer 

[AJF]

5 minutes ago, bennett said:

Everytime Rangers get a decision in their favour it's a national talking point for weeks, yet we're expected to just move on after yesterday and not mention it.

The SFA need to release the audio from the VAR team because their multiple versions of what happened don't add up. 

 

I’m not too concerned about the outcome of penalty check as it may well have been correct to deny it if Sima is offside, but I agree it seems there are contradictions.

I’ve seen it mentioned that apparently the commentary team on Sky said there was no check for offside during the VAR review. Then they came out 30 minutes later with the image with the lines drawn, so I’m not sure what’s went on.

[Billy Jean King]

4 minutes ago, houston_bud said:

But it was the right decision not to award the penalty. Surely everyone agrees with that?

Of course it was but The People want to know why they weren't awarded a penalty they shouldn't have had. That's the mentality here.

[Billy Jean King]

4 minutes ago, AJF said:

I’m not too concerned about the outcome of penalty check as it may well have been correct to deny it if Sima is offside, but I agree it seems there are contradictions.

I’ve seen it mentioned that apparently the commentary team on Sky said there was no check for offside during the VAR review. Then they came out 30 minutes later with the image with the lines drawn, so I’m not sure what’s went on.

It happens,  Spain v Scotland a very recent example. Frustrating but not worth dwelling on especially not by the club themselves. It  just comes across as paranoia.

[Estragon]

I thought they were both penalties.