Semi Final: Aberdeen vs Celtic

[Cairn Terrier]

1 hour ago, RandomGuy. said:

This is my last post on this because it's clear you're just refusing to see the point.

 

[VincentGuerin]

3-3, two last-minute equalisers, a penalty shoot-out, a keeper missing the penalty to win it before saving one to win it.

And we've got 100 pages on a penalty decision that didn't impact the outcome of the game.

f**k me. Anyway, time to crack the first can of the day. Hope Hearts make as much of a game of it today.

[Dons_1988]

17 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

3-3, two last-minute equalisers, a penalty shoot-out, a keeper missing the penalty to win it before saving one to win it.

And we've got 100 pages on a penalty decision that didn't impact the outcome of the game.

f**k me. Anyway, time to crack the first can of the day. Hope Hearts make as much of a game of it today.

Genuinely quite sad. I know refs have always been discussed but I swear VAR has made this even more insufferable. 

To disrupt this with football chat, o’reilly’s finish for his goal is very aesthetically pleasing. He could’ve scored with a far inferior finish but the accuracy is tremendous. 

Celtics defence is mercifully garbage though, I don’t remember us having so many chances against them in a game at hampden. We’ve basically scored the same goal twice with someone just drifting in at the back post, presume Liam scales is at fault for that.  

[Arch Stanton]

[VincentGuerin]

5 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

Genuinely quite sad. I know refs have always been discussed but I swear VAR has made this even more insufferable. 

To disrupt this with football chat, o’reilly’s finish for his goal is very aesthetically pleasing. He could’ve scored with a far inferior finish but the accuracy is tremendous. 

Celtics defence is mercifully garbage though, I don’t remember us having so many chances against them in a game at hampden. We’ve basically scored the same goal twice with someone just drifting in at the back post, presume Liam scales is at fault for that.  

Massive hurdle in the way to get there, but their defence yesterday is one I'd fancy playing in a cup final. Looked so vulnerable to the cross ball, and were awfully square quite often when Aberdeen were in possession in the middle of the park.

Hoilett's cameo looked like it might go down in Scottish fitba folklore.

Was only half-joking when I posted on here that I expected Aberdeen to win and Hearts to get scudded. It had the feel of a Big Cup Story about it.

[craigkillie]

8 hours ago, 54_and_counting said:

Your last paragraph is correct, only issue is robertson didn't award the game changing event decision, what should have happened is

Robertson sees potential foul on johnston, but allows play to continue

Robertson sees vickers foul hoilett, awards penalty but indicates to VAR that johnston might have been foul (VAR will check back anyway as per its procedure) 

Free kick is spotted after a VAR delay and robertson indicates celtic free kick

But he never once awarded the penalty 

This is just simply wrong. The referee has to make a decision on the pitch and he shouldn't award a penalty if he doesn't think a penalty is the right decision.

Robertson sees the potential foul and believes it is a foul, but allows play to continue because there is a promising attack. After the challenge on Hoilett stops the attack, he then goes back and gives the original free-kick. That is his way of indicating to VAR that he thinks it is a foul.

VAR can then check the full incident, since play was live throughout, and there is a potential penalty to check. They will first check the free-kick to see if they think the decision is correct, and if they believed Robertson's decision was wrong then they could then roll on to look at the penalty decision.

That is the correct procedure here.

[RandomGuy.]

2 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

VAR can then check the full incident, since play was live throughout, and there is a potential penalty to check. They will first check the free-kick to see if they think the decision is correct.

And since it's unclear and subjective, they can't overturn his decision so the check ends there and the penalty is off the table.

[craigkillie]

Just now, RandomGuy. said:

And since it's unclear and subjective, they can't overturn his decision so the check ends there and the penalty is off the table.

They absolutely can and do overturn subjective decisions if they think a mistake has been made. In this particular incident they presumably didn't think there was enough evidence that the referee was wrong in his original decision of a foul. This is how VAR is supposed to be used, we should only see a referee being overruled when he makes a clearly bad decision.

[Empty It]

[RandomGuy.]

Just now, craigkillie said:

They absolutely can and do overturn subjective decisions if they think a mistake has been made. 

And yet again, I ask for an example of them doing this in the past. I've never once seen a VAR review for an aerial challenge, given as a foul, overturned, either in St Johnstone games or in the few Sportscenes I watch.

In any game not involving Celtic (or Rangers), the referee either blows for a foul straight away, or blows for the penalty and pulls it back for the foul after reviewing the play.

To me it's just another example of how things are refereed differently when those two are involved with things weighted towards them in the decision making.

[Molotov]

48 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

3-3, two last-minute equalisers, a penalty shoot-out, a keeper missing the penalty to win it before saving one to win it.

And we've got 100 pages on a penalty decision that didn't impact the outcome of the game.

f**k me. Anyway, time to crack the first can of the day. Hope Hearts make as much of a game of it today.

Are you going today?

Good luck against The Rangers and The SFA.

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Molotov said:

Are you going today?

Good luck against The Rangers and The SFA.

Yeah, off out in an hour or so.

No idea whether I should be feeling confident or now. It'll be a good day out regardless.

[Dons_1988]

18 minutes ago, VincentGuerin said:

Massive hurdle in the way to get there, but their defence yesterday is one I'd fancy playing in a cup final. Looked so vulnerable to the cross ball, and were awfully square quite often when Aberdeen were in possession in the middle of the park.

Hoilett's cameo looked like it might go down in Scottish fitba folklore.

Was only half-joking when I posted on here that I expected Aberdeen to win and Hearts to get scudded. It had the feel of a Big Cup Story about it.

It’s always a big ask to beat them both at hampden to win a cup (has it ever happened?) but both teams have vulnerabilities. 

Celtic are almost ideologically poor at the back. They take no steps to cover for any deficiencies so at a time when their centre halves are pretty poor the opportunities are there. It’s then just a question of bravery for teams like ours. The players are there to hurt them, you just have to be brave in possession. So often that doesn’t happen. 

I have to say I don’t particularly fancy hearts today but you never know. Much stranger things have happened. 

[Molotov]

14 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

And since it's unclear and subjective, they can't overturn his decision so the check ends there and the penalty is off the table.

Do we have any footage of different camera angles aside from the main stand view regarding the foul on Johnston?

Surely VAR team have alternative views and if it’s a clear foul then that’s fine. Uphold the referee’s decision.

[craigkillie]

2 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

And yet again, I ask for an example of them doing this in the past. I've never once seen a VAR review for an aerial challenge, given as a foul, overturned, either in St Johnstone games or in the few Sportscenes I watch.

In any game not involving Celtic (or Rangers), the referee either blows for a foul straight away, or blows for the penalty and pulls it back for the foul after reviewing the play.

To me it's just another example of how things are refereed differently when those two are involved with things weighted towards them in the decision making.

Examples have literally been given earlier in this thread, but it's a bit of a needle in a haystack situation to try and find these things because they're rare and in most cases hardly memorable. People don't tend to go around with big lists of all the refereeing decisions ever made in their head.

If the officials think a goal might be scored then they're supposed to hold off on giving the foul or offside decision.

I don't see how this weights things towards Celtic here. If he had followed your approach of not bothering to follow the proper guidance for these situations then he would have just given Celtic a free-kick straight away rather than allowing for the possibility of an Aberdeen penalty.

[VincentGuerin]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s always a big ask to beat them both at hampden to win a cup (has it ever happened?) but both teams have vulnerabilities. 

Celtic are almost ideologically poor at the back. They take no steps to cover for any deficiencies so at a time when their centre halves are pretty poor the opportunities are there. It’s then just a question of bravery for teams like ours. The players are there to hurt them, you just have to be brave in possession. So often that doesn’t happen. 

I have to say I don’t particularly fancy hearts today but you never know. Much stranger things have happened. 

Celtic: The USSR of football.

Can't think of anyone winning a cup beating them both at Hampden. Somebody on here will know if it's happened.

[Melanius Mullarkey]

Lovely morning for the “well actually” brigade.

Anyway onto todays match. If hearts don’t capitalise on the recent demise of Rangers* form then they should be shot with shit. 

[TPAFKA Jersey 2]

11 hours ago, DC92 said:

I don't see how it being in or out of the box is relevant.

I’ve already tried making that point mate. You’re wasting your time.

He started off by saying VAR had overturned the penalty decision and gave the foul, in order to refute a point I had made. Once he realised he was wrong (which is something I suppose) he moved the goalposts to this delaying the whistle inside the box nonsense. 

You are of course, completely correct that it makes no difference whatsoever. 

[Molotov]

1 minute ago, VincentGuerin said:

Yeah, off out in an hour or so.

No idea whether I should be feeling confident or now. It'll be a good day out regardless.

Enjoy.

There is a stat in the media that says Hearts have never beaten the opposition at Hampden.

I assume by that they mean the new club The Rangers and not the old version that was liquidated.

[craigkillie]

2 minutes ago, Dons_1988 said:

It’s always a big ask to beat them both at hampden to win a cup (has it ever happened?) but both teams have vulnerabilities. 

Celtic are almost ideologically poor at the back. They take no steps to cover for any deficiencies so at a time when their centre halves are pretty poor the opportunities are there. It’s then just a question of bravery for teams like ours. The players are there to hurt them, you just have to be brave in possession. So often that doesn’t happen. 

I have to say I don’t particularly fancy hearts today but you never know. Much stranger things have happened. 

Celtic's subs made them much worse, and came at terrible times. The only one that improved them was taking Yang off, and that would have been true even if they hadn't bothered to bring someone on for them.

Ultimately at the end, Roos was utterly terrible in the shoot-out and Aberdeen hit several bad penalties, while Celtic, Hart aside, were pretty much spot on with theirs.