Group C 🇸🇮🇩🇰🇷🇸🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

[JS_FFC]

I watched the game last night and hilariously the English media are starting a post mortem already despite the fact that they actually played completely fine. They weren’t great but really only Germany have been so far. Italy and Netherlands both won from behind whilst Spain had a very flattering 3-0 result when the game was far more even in practice.

 

England didn’t create much last night but crucially they took one of their chances. Serbia had a lot of the ball but created virtually nothing. At no point watching that game did I feel Serbia were going to score.

 

That’s why it’s all the more funny that the media are sharpening the knives already. They’ll never win a tournament until the media stop actively getting in the players heads. 

[Chripper]

People keep saying that England have an embarrassment of riches.

No they don't.

Yes, Kane is world class and Bellingham is special and Saka is very good.

But behind that there's Foden. Yes. He's very good, but for all intents and purposes, he's not once put in a starring performance for England in 35 appearances.

Behind that there's Palmer, Wharton, Mainoo who are just fresh from their first season in the EPL.

Bowen is with West Ham. They have four Crystal Palace players. Only one of their keeper's is getting regular game time. And he plays for lowly Everton.

It's a complete and total fallacy that England have got an embarrassment of riches.

They had to play Trent in midfield because they're short in central midfielders.

I had someone here telling me that Mainoo is a superstar as he's "19 and playing for club and country". No. He isn't a superstar. He's good. He's very good, but if England has prime Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves, Robson, Ince, etc, Mainoo with be on holiday.

It's central defence, left back and central midfield and goalkeeper that is their weakness.

People, even Scotland fans, are believing the hype.

I said all this on the first page of this thread.

England fans moan and complain that Harry Kane always comes deep. He has to. If he doesn't come deep then he won't get the ball. Last night was proof of that.

In the 1st half Kane stayed disciplined and didn't come deep (probably instructions from Southgate) and had one touch in the entire half.

There's no point having a world class striker if there's no one to give him the ball.

England are crying out for a Kroos or a Modric or dare I say, a Scholes or Carrick. They are lacking a playmaker.

Gareth Southgate is the scapegoat with England fans. Personally I can't wait till he leaves as he's doing brilliantly with them.

Edited June 17 by SlayerX

[Red Kite]

24 minutes ago, SlayerX said:

People keep saying that England have an embarrassment of riches.

No they don't.

Yes, Kane is world class and Bellingham is special and Saka is very good.

But behind that there's Foden. Yes. He's very good, but for all intents and purposes, he's not once put in a starring performance for England in 35 appearances.

Behind that there's Palmer, Wharton, Mainoo who are just fresh from their first season in the EPL.

Bowen is with West Ham. They have four Crystal Palace players. Only one of their keeper's is getting regular game time. And he plays for lowly Everton.

It's a complete and total fallacy that England have got an embarrassment of riches.

They had to play Trent in midfield because they're short in central midfielders.

I had someone here telling me that Mainoo is a superstar as he's "19 and playing for club and country". No. He isn't a superstar. He's good. He's very good, but if England has prime Carrick, Scholes, Hargreaves, Robson, Ince, etc, Mainoo with be on holiday.

It's central defence, left back and central midfield and goalkeeper that is their weakness.

People, even Scotland fans, are believing the hype.

I said all this on the first page of this thread.

England fans moan and complain that Harry Kane always comes deep. He has to. If he doesn't come deep then he won't get the ball. Last night was proof of that.

In the 1st half Kane stayed disciplined and didn't come deep (probably instructions from Southgate) and had one touch in the entire half.

There's no point having a world class striker if there's no one to give him the ball.

England are crying out for a Kroos or a Modric or dare I say, a Scholes or Carrick. They are lacking a playmaker.

Gareth Southgate is the scapegoat with England fans. Personally I can't wait till he leaves as he's doing brilliantly with them.

Although it pains me to refer to a United fans forum, Red Cafe (other English club forums are available) are doing a decent job of analysing England's midfield issues on their Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion thread.   At least, in my opinion.

Edited June 17 by Red Kite

[Chripper]

2 minutes ago, Red Kite said:

Although it pains me to refer to a United fans forum, Red Cafe (other English club forums are available) are doing a decent job of analysing England's midfield issues on their Euro 2024 Squad and Discussion thread.   At least, in my opinion.

Ah, Redcafe.

I have a love/hate relationship with that place. (I'm not registered)

Yes, there are a lot of good, analytical pieces written and the discussions are sometimes insightful.

There is usually a good traffic of healthy and intelligent analysis, etc.

On that front it's a very good place.

But have you checked out their player performances (of united players) forum?

It's like stepping back into time to Salem.

They almost take joy in eviscerating their own players. I have never known anything like it.

[Richey Edwards]

43 minutes ago, SlayerX said:

Gareth Southgate is the scapegoat with England fans. Personally I can't wait till he leaves as he's doing brilliantly with them.

I'd say Southgate has overachieved as England manager. A WC semi-final and a Euros final is better than a lot of England managers have achieved with better squads than this one.

[Red Kite]

31 minutes ago, SlayerX said:

Ah, Redcafe.

I have a love/hate relationship with that place. (I'm not registered)

Yes, there are a lot of good, analytical pieces written and the discussions are sometimes insightful.

There is usually a good traffic of healthy and intelligent analysis, etc.

On that front it's a very good place.

But have you checked out their player performances (of united players) forum?

It's like stepping back into time to Salem.

They almost take joy in eviscerating their own players. I have never known anything like it.

I pop in and have a look, now and again.  Know your enemy etc.  I do go back and see what their view is of past players and compare them to my own.   Same with Everton.  You have folk on their forums who still rave about their midfield of Kendall, Ball and Harvey - The Holy Trinity.  If you sift out the madheads, there is some good stuff.

Edited June 17 by Red Kite

[Chripper]

2 hours ago, Red Kite said:

I pop in and have a look, now and again.  Know your enemy etc.  I do go back and see what their view is of past players and compare them to my own.   Same with Everton.  You have folk on their forums who still rave about their midfield of Kendall, Ball and Harvey - The Holy Trinity.  If you sift out the madheads, there is some good stuff.

The good thing about that place is they encourage fans of other clubs to join. And they get on.

It's commendable.

I once joined the Brentford forum. Big mistake. I made it known I was a United fan (they give you options to say who you support on the sign up page) and I got the feeling they were watching me like a hawk.

Suffice to say, fans of other clubs aren't welcome.

I even got into a spat with the admin via pm and I asked them why they have options to choose "who you support" when you sign up. They replied with "So we know how smart they are".

Yes. Because mighty Brentford are a football colossus with a great history. 9 out of 10 football supporter's would support them.

Seriously, there was a feel of "Deliverance" in that place

Just a head's up.

 

Edited June 17 by SlayerX

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, Richey Edwards said:

I'd say Southgate has overachieved as England manager. A WC semi-final and a Euros final is better than a lot of England managers have achieved with better squads than this one.

Totally.

On win average i think he's joint 2nd. Just behind Fabio Capello.

It just seems like every two years it's "This is the best England squad ever".

[Red Kite]

32 minutes ago, SlayerX said:

The good place about that place is they encourage fans of other clubs to join. And they get on.

It's commendable.

I once joined the Brentford forum. Big mistake. I made it known I was a United fan (they give you options to say who you support on the sign up page) and I got the feeling they were watching me like a hawk.

Suffice to say, fans of other clubs aren't welcome.

I even got into a spat with the admin via pm and I asked them why they have options to choose "who you support" when you sign up. They replied with "So we know how smart they are".

Yes. Because mighty Brentford are a football colossus with a great history. 9 out of 10 football supporter's would support them.

Seriously, there was a feel of "Deliverance" in that place

Just a head's up.

 

That is just bizarre, if it was meant seriously.  My personal experience of talking with an older Brentford fan was his pride in the old ground and their history.  It is of no relevance who you support, if your point is posted in the right spirit.  Crackers.

[Chripper]

17 minutes ago, Red Kite said:

That is just bizarre, if it was meant seriously.  My personal experience of talking with an older Brentford fan was his pride in the old ground and their history.  It is of no relevance who you support, if your point is posted in the right spirit.  Crackers.

Oh. It was totally serious. The admin also said that kept a close eyes on me when I signed up. Which didn't creep me out at all...

After that, they banned me. lol.

Literally all I posted about was Aaron Hickey. With zero trouble.

The Internet just makes people strange. The online United fans seem to absolutely hate their players and online Brentford fans just hate fans of other clubs.

I just tend to ignore any toxic posts. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

[Chripper]

(From Euro 2020)

The English media (and Westminster) is so narcissistic.

It's like when they asked Steve Clarke on Saturday who he'll be wanting to win the England vs Serbia match.

No doubt Clarke will be asked the same question at least two more times.

[Red Kite]

On 17/06/2024 at 16:47, SlayerX said:

Oh. It was totally serious. The admin also said that kept a close eyes on me when I signed up. Which didn't creep me out at all...

After that, they banned me. lol.

Literally all I posted about was Aaron Hickey. With zero trouble.

The Internet just makes people strange. The online United fans seem to absolutely hate their players and online Brentford fans just hate fans of other clubs.

I just tend to ignore any toxic posts. Ignorance is indeed bliss.

I made a purely accidental jinx post in the Scotland thread about Shaqiri being a dangerous player on the edge of the box.  Straight after, I am watching on the iPlayer and next thing he scores and I got asked to stop posting.  I am not bloody Derren Brown.

Seeing some interesting opinions on players I know well e.g. Shaqiri was not all that.  He was part of a squad that finished second in the EPL and won the Champions League in 2018/19.

Now I'll be sticking with my own group, we could be seeing Mainoo come into the team if reports are to be believed.    If so, I hope folk are prepared to consider he will be facing some experienced campaigners in the likes of Hjobjerg.  Seeing a lot of comments from even English fans that Bellingham is arrogant.  I am all for the players having a bit of swagger.  Totally different to the arrogance of the media.

Edited June 19 by Red Kite

[JS_FFC]

On 17/06/2024 at 15:40, SlayerX said:

Totally.

On win average i think he's joint 2nd. Just behind Fabio Capello.

It just seems like every two years it's "This is the best England squad ever".

Wait, what? Capello was the England manager for five years, but only took them to one tournament. In that tournament, they had draws with USA and Algeria before sneaking past Slovenia 1-0 to get out of the group, but were roundly pumped by Germany in the last 16. Under no circumstances can the argument be made that Capello is anywhere near the best England manager of this century.

 

Sven Goran Eriksson and Gareth Southgate both made three straight quarter finals. The former lost them all (2 on penalties to Portugal). The latter won two of them and one semi. They are by far the two best England managers in living memory. Capello was a nobody like Hodgson, McClaren and Allardyce.

[Chripper]

21 minutes ago, Red Kite said:

I made a purely accidental jinx post in the Scotland thread about Shaqiri being a dangerous player on the edge of the box.  Straight after, I am watching on the iPlayer and next thing he scores and I got asked to stop posting.  I am not bloody Derren Brown.

Seeing some interesting opinions on players I know well e.g. Shaqiri was not all that.  He was part of a squad that finished second in the EPL and won the Champions League in 2018/19.

Now I'll be sticking with my own group, we could be seeing Mainoo come into the team if reports are to be believed.    If so, I hope folk are prepared to consider he will be facing some experienced campaigners in the likes of Hjobjerg.  Seeing a lot of comments from even English fans that Bellingham is arrogant.  I am all for the players having a bit of swagger.  Totally different to the arrogance of the media.

Mate, ignore toxic comments like that.

It's all good and you are entitled to post wherever you want. I don't care who you support, even England. If you're contributing to this place and not being a Troll, you're more than welcome.

Hell, there are so called Scotland supporters who I've noticed only post negative and insulting stuff.

Oh really? It'll be interesting to see Mainoo start. Personally, I don't think he's ready. I heard that it'll be the same starting XI. Suppose we'll see.

Nah. Bellingham isn't arrogant. He's supremely confident. I like him. There's a lot of likeable characters in the England squad.

[Spyro]

34 minutes ago, Red Kite said:

I made a purely accidental jinx post in the Scotland thread about Shaqiri being a dangerous player on the edge of the box.  Straight after, I am watching on the iPlayer and next thing he scores and I got asked to stop posting.  I am not bloody Derren Brown.

Seeing some interesting opinions on players I know well e.g. Shaqiri was not all that.  He was part of a squad that finished second in the EPL and won the Champions League in 2018/19.

Now I'll be sticking with my own group, we could be seeing Mainoo come into the team if reports are to be believed.    If so, I hope folk are prepared to consider he will be facing some experienced campaigners in the likes of Hjobjerg.  Seeing a lot of comments from even English fans that Bellingham is arrogant.  I am all for the players having a bit of swagger.  Totally different to the arrogance of the media.

Tbf I saw your post at the time followed by the others and it was genuinely light hearted. I wouldn't worry about it at all, your timing was fucking shocking though!

Edited June 19 by Spyro

[Chripper]

9 minutes ago, JS_FFC said:

Wait, what? Capello was the England manager for five years, but only took them to one tournament. In that tournament, they had draws with USA and Algeria before sneaking past Slovenia 1-0 to get out of the group, but were roundly pumped by Germany in the last 16. Under no circumstances can the argument be made that Capello is anywhere near the best England manager of this century.

 

Sven Goran Eriksson and Gareth Southgate both made three straight quarter finals. The former lost them all (2 on penalties to Portugal). The latter won two of them and one semi. They are by far the two best England managers in living memory. Capello was a nobody like Hodgson, McClaren and Allardyce.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/ranking-every-england-manager-by-their-win-rate-southgate-second

1. Fabio Capello 

Games: 42 Wins: 28

Win rate: 66.7%

Edited June 19 by SlayerX

[JS_FFC]

Just now, SlayerX said:

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/ranking-every-england-manager-by-their-win-rate-southgate-second

1. Fabio Capello 

Games: 42 Wins:

28 Win rate: 66.7%

Interesting. I would guess this is a function of Capello being the manager in a pre Nations League era where they played more qualifiers against minnows and friendlies. Southgate and Eriksson objectively achieved a lot more.

[Chripper]

Just now, JS_FFC said:

Interesting. I would guess this is a function of Capello being the manager in a pre Nations League era where they played more qualifiers against minnows and friendlies. Southgate and Eriksson objectively achieved a lot more.

Could be.

As a manager, though, generally, his record makes him head and shoulders above all England managers.

I remember how terrified I was when he got the England gig.

[Red Kite]

4 hours ago, SlayerX said:

Mate, ignore toxic comments like that.

It's all good and you are entitled to post wherever you want. I don't care who you support, even England. If you're contributing to this place and not being a Troll, you're more than welcome.

Hell, there are so called Scotland supporters who I've noticed only post negative and insulting stuff.

Oh really? It'll be interesting to see Mainoo start. Personally, I don't think hes ready. I heard that it'll be the same starting XI. Suppose we'll see.

Nah. Bellingham isn't arrogant. He's supremely confident. I like him. There's a lot of likeable characters in the England squad.

Thanks.  I had a whole thought process going on, posted and then was thinking it looked like I had willed it into existence.

The Mainoo thing may just be an angle for a story and some hits on the BBC website and I'm reading too much into it.  Former players can't agree if he is ready and the comments are all over the show.

I have been having a text conversation with my Scottish mate about the need for Bellingham to remain calm.

[Red Kite]

5 hours ago, Spyro said:

Tbf I saw your post at the time followed by the others and it was genuinely light hearted. I wouldn't worry about it at all, your timing was fucking shocking though!

Thanks and it was terrible timing.  Normally, I reckon I would not have not been so sensitive.  However, my Scottish mate now lives down here and the last two tournaments, he has not felt like watching and I have been nagging him about it.  I have really felt for him.  I want people to feel good about watching football