VAR Special Show on The Locker Room podcast with Behind the Whistles Refs

[SFSA Ops]

There is a special show on VAR, looking back over last season and debating its usefulness (or otherwise), this Wednesday evening at 8.00 pm on The Locker Room. The show features the former Category 1 Refs Steve Conroy and Des Roache, from the excellent Behind the Whistles podcasts.  You can see it on YouTube at this link:   

 

[KingswellsRed]

2 hours ago, SFSA Ops said:

There is a special show on VAR, looking back over last season and debating its usefulness (or otherwise), this Wednesday evening at 8.00 pm on The Locker Room. The show features the former Category 1 Refs Steve Conroy and Des Roache, from the excellent Behind the Whistles podcasts.  You can see it on YouTube at this link:   

 

Lets hope the show gives proper time to what the fans want.

[Coventry Saint]

32 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Lets hope the show gives proper time to what the fans want.

The propulsion of VAR right into the fucking sea? I'd click like and subscribe for that sort of thing.

[rainbowrising]

I hope it doesn't dissolve in to refs defending refs/VAR team by endless repeat of how it's all a matter of opinion around what you see.

[KingswellsRed]

Quite enjoyed some of the chat but a little bit too much “it is here to stay” for my liking.

[2426255]

39 minutes ago, KingswellsRed said:

Quite enjoyed some of the chat but a little bit too much “it is here to stay” for my liking.

It is here to stay.

[PTR]

12 hours ago, 2426255 said:

It is here to stay.

The problem is this never gets challenged. Why is it here to stay? Apologies if this is covered on the podcast, not had time to listen to it yet, but it is missing from the general discussion.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, PTR said:

The problem is this never gets challenged. Why is it here to stay? Apologies if this is covered on the podcast, not had time to listen to it yet, but it is missing from the general discussion.

Because there's nothing wrong with the idea of replaying an incident. The implementation can be refined.

It's currently ridiculously anal due to the self interested fan culture that leads the referees to work to rule. If fans and clubs relaxed their self interested positions, VAR would have freedom to incorporate common sense rather than working to rule without accusations of bias/incompetence hanging in the air.

No-one is interested in ghost goals or other egregious refereeing errors deciding high value games and with VAR we have moved away from that and towards discussion around less obvious, more debateable infractions. I'd have thought it's clear at this point Scottish football fans generally don't care enough to challenge it, only to moan about it in line with their interests.  

Edited May 30 by 2426255

[PTR]

23 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Because there's nothing wrong with the idea of replaying an incident. The implementation can be refined.

It's currently ridiculously anal due to the self interested fan culture that leads the referees to work to rule. If fans and clubs relaxed their self interested positions, VAR would have freedom to incorporate common sense rather than working to rule without accusations of bias/incompetence hanging in the air.

No-one is interested in ghost goals or other egregious refereeing errors deciding high value games and with VAR we have moved away from that and towards discussion around less obvious, more debateable infractions. I'd have thought it's clear at this point Scottish football fans generally don't care enough to challenge it, only to moan about it in line with their interests.  

At a basic level, there is nothing wrong with replaying an incident. When you consider it in the context of a football game then there is plenty wrong with it.

I don't think any of that would mean it is here to stay. The part I agree with is the behaviour of fans, which has driven this. Fans needs to grow up, essentially. If fans did this, we would maybe be able to get on with life without VAR at all. Although, I have never left a game after a contentious decision and heard any fan wish VAR had been there.

There are so many suggestions to shoehorn VAR in after many years, when do you say what's the point? 

There is goal line technology. Use that. There are already 4 officials at top flight games. Train them and use them. 

I've never heard anyone is any official capacity asked why an expensive, enjoyment impacting, ineffective system is here to stay.

Scottish football fans want rid of VAR by the few polls that have been done. However, the lack of engagement with fans from clubs about it has been telling.

 

 

Edited May 31 by PTR

[2426255]

3 hours ago, PTR said:

At a basic level, there is nothing wrong with replaying an incident. When you consider it in the context of a football game then there is plenty wrong with it.

I don't think any of that would mean it is here to stay. The part I agree with is the behaviour of fans, which has driven this. Fans needs to grow up, essentially. If fans did this, we would maybe be able to get on with life without VAR at all. Although, I have never left a game after a contentious decision and heard any fan wish VAR had been there.

There are so many suggestions to shoehorn VAR in after many years, when do you say what's the point? 

There is goal line technology. Use that. There are already 4 officials at top flight games. Train them and use them. 

I've never heard anyone is any official capacity asked why an expensive, enjoyment impacting, ineffective system is here to stay.

Scottish football fans want rid of VAR by the few polls that have been done. However, the lack of engagement with fans from clubs about it has been telling.

 

 

Personally I don't think fans are the primary concern. I think they're seen as secondary so long as they're still buying tickets. That's what we see, is it not?

I think with the amount of money in games, particularly games organised by UEFA and FIFA they don't want games being decided by refereeing mistakes. I think that's why it'll stay. They have to be seen to do all they reasonably can to reduce erroneous game defining decisions.

For the SFA it's just trickle down. There are disincentives for the SFA if it doesn't toe the line so they won't do anything about it off their own back. It therefore falls on fans to take action and there isn't apparently enough to do anything other than moan usually about petty decisions they didn't get.

Edited May 31 by 2426255

[KingswellsRed]

3 hours ago, 2426255 said:

Personally I don't think fans are the primary concern. I think they're seen as secondary so long as they're still buying tickets. That's what we see, is it not?

I think with the amount of money in games, particularly games organised by UEFA and FIFA they don't want games being decided by refereeing mistakes. I think that's why it'll stay. They have to be seen to do all they reasonably can to reduce erroneous game defining decisions.

For the SFA it's just trickle down. There are disincentives for the SFA if it doesn't toe the line so they won't do anything about it off their own back. It therefore falls on fans to take action and there isn't apparently enough to do anything other than moan usually about petty decisions they didn't get.

It is the clubs who decide and not the SFA. They could vote it out if they actually listened to their paying customers. It is becoming more difficult to ignore this issue as time goes on.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, KingswellsRed said:

It is the clubs who decide and not the SFA. They could vote it out if they actually listened to their paying customers. It is becoming more difficult to ignore this issue as time goes on.

Fair enough, replace SFA with our clubs and its the same difference. They won't do it off their own back. What's their incentive?

[PTR]

17 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Fair enough, replace SFA with our clubs and its the same difference. They won't do it off their own back. What's their incentive?

I don't disagree with anything that you're saying and I understand from our (fans) perspectives what those points are on why it'll probably stay. 

I just want to hear from those higher up, those who are supposed to be custodians of the game, but are letting it generally descend to farce.

It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the English vote next week. Almost certainly they'll retain VAR, but the degree of support is what I'll be on the look out for. 

And again, agreed with the fans. The 'ultras' scene (for the extreme lack of a better word) in Scotland continues to be little more than rebranded singing sections. A bit of effort from them to highlight dissatisfaction will be nice. But I suppose we would need to wait until they came up with suitable VAR lyrics to a Calvin Harris song or something until they'd consider it.

[2426255]

15 hours ago, PTR said:

I don't disagree with anything that you're saying and I understand from our (fans) perspectives what those points are on why it'll probably stay. 

I just want to hear from those higher up, those who are supposed to be custodians of the game, but are letting it generally descend to farce.

It'll be interesting to see what comes out of the English vote next week. Almost certainly they'll retain VAR, but the degree of support is what I'll be on the look out for. 

And again, agreed with the fans. The 'ultras' scene (for the extreme lack of a better word) in Scotland continues to be little more than rebranded singing sections. A bit of effort from them to highlight dissatisfaction will be nice. But I suppose we would need to wait until they came up with suitable VAR lyrics to a Calvin Harris song or something until they'd consider it.

As you say I also think the English clubs will keep VAR. I think VAR should be kept personally, people forget about the good things that it does, the bad things it deters. It needs refined, not removed in my opinion. If we take away VAR we will still have the dissatisfaction around referees and are put back into the previous solution which wasn't working. 

It's my view that there is a solution where a compromise can be reached on correct decisions and impact on fan experience. It requires fans and media to give a little to get a little. It is my hope that will be realised. That everyone can be grown up enough to look past our individual own interests for the good of the game as a whole. 

[KingswellsRed]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

As you say I also think the English clubs will keep VAR. I think VAR should be kept personally, people forget about the good things that it does, the bad things it deters. It needs refined, not removed in my opinion. If we take away VAR we will still have the dissatisfaction around referees and are put back into the previous solution which wasn't working. 

It's my view that there is a solution where a compromise can be reached on correct decisions and impact on fan experience. It requires fans and media to give a little to get a little. It is my hope that will be realised. That everyone can be grown up enough to look past our individual own interests for the good of the game as a whole. 

I just don’t see how VAR is compatible with the reason many fans go to games, i.e. celebrating goals, the best part.

[2426255]

1 hour ago, KingswellsRed said:

I just don’t see how VAR is compatible with the reason many fans go to games, i.e. celebrating goals, the best part.

Fair enough. That's a point you won't compromise on. It's something I don't object strongly to which is why (to state the obvious) we don't agree on this matter. Waiting for a VAR check before celebrating doesn't ruin the game for me.

I'm not trying to persuade. I think VAR is here to stay and we can help it along to place where it can be a positive. For me it's just accuracy v speed and finding a balance. The focus is too much accuracy at the moment due to the scrutiny it's under which make VAR slow and over analysed.

I dont see any of that as unreasonable. I think it's a pretty tight argument and just come down to where each person stands on compromising.

Edited June 1 by 2426255

[PTR]

2 hours ago, 2426255 said:

If we take away VAR we will still have the dissatisfaction around referees and are put back into the previous solution which wasn't working. 

This is our fundamental difference in opinion. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way things were before. It was imperfect previously, but it was football. The determination to fit VAR into the game will naturally lead us back to imperfect football but with the best parts damaged with it already far less enjoyable. 

Edited June 1 by PTR

[2426255]

On 01/06/2024 at 13:29, PTR said:

This is our fundamental difference in opinion. I don't think there was anything wrong with the way things were before. It was imperfect previously, but it was football. The determination to fit VAR into the game will naturally lead us back to imperfect football but with the best parts damaged with it already far less enjoyable. 

I see England have chosen to keep VAR. It's bigger unfortunately than what the fans want and I think we have to try and make the best of it personally. If everyone can try to embrace it I do think it can be a good solution, but I expect most won't take that point of view and it'll descend into lowest common denominator stuff around self interest and tribalism. 

People will be against it for the reasons discussed, but worth remembering it does take away aspects of the game that were a problem and substitutes them for another problem such as fan experience that can hopefully be resolved or at least reduced over time.

Edited June 6 by 2426255