Germany v Scotland

[Fletchers Saucy Manbun]

1 hour ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Presumably because Germany set up so that our easiest option was to give the ball to a poorer  player on our weaker side.

Which we should've had a prepared answer against rather than falling into the trap over and over again. Though I suppose Clarke just has to put some trust in Ralston either way.

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, SlayerX said:

Germany are a genuine powerhouse with a rich football history of winning trophies. They also have world class players.

Judging us against Germany in Germany is silly.

We should judge ourselves on the next two matches. Tonight was just a write-off.

The only good thing about tonight is that the players will be wounded, they'll be extra motivated to make amends against Switzerland and Hungary.

Upwards and onwards.

"Judging us against Germany is silly".

You said numerous times on here that you expected Scotland to win this tournament but then you think we shouldn't be judged against one of the favourites. 

[Waspie]

39 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

Genuinely shambolic, and quite frankly potentially dangerous at times and I was there at six. 

The crowd management around the ground equally awful, no idea what they were playing at. The SFA should absolutely be making representations to UEFA about it. 

The trains out were grim and the queues at the ground were a joke. There were Bayern fans around us who were saying it's never normally like that and that Uefa had brought in a different system for entering the ground. Shambles. Like the Scotland performance unfortunately. 

[ekok]

I have been Scotland supporter for more than 60 years.  Have seen many highs and even more lows. 

That was right down there , given the world was watching,  was it too much to ask we at least tried to string some passes together and not play into the " long ball" narrative.

In case you haven't noticed Steve, we don't have the players to make that work, did you not get the email that Dykes wasn't playing  ?

Just a thought Steve, maybe if Gilmour had been playing from the start we might have actually been able to keep the ball for more than 10 seconds,  before a poor touch,  lack of awareness or most importantly lack  of bravely saw an all too easy turnover.

You only had 1 major objective Steve, get out of this game without bringing goal difference into play .

Sad to say, probably the most significant failure of your reign.

 

[2426255]

10 minutes ago, ekok said:

I have been Scotland supporter for more than 60 years.  Have seen many highs and even more lows. 

That was right down there , given the world was watching,  was it too much to ask we at least tried to string some passes together and not play into the " long ball" narrative.

In case you haven't noticed Steve, we don't have the players to make that work, did you not get the email that Dykes wasn't playing  ?

Just a thought Steve, maybe if Gilmour had been playing from the start we might have actually been able to keep the ball for more than 10 seconds,  before a poor touch,  lack of awareness or most importantly lack  of bravely saw an all too easy turnover.

You only had 1 major objective Steve, get out of this game without bringing goal difference into play .

Sad to say, probably the most significant failure of your reign.

 

In the games where we have tried to play possession football and go toe to toe we haven't done well, have we? England beat us 3-1, France 4-1 and The Netherlands 4-0. In our competitive games where we have tried to control the game without the ball we have had more success: Beating Spain 2-0 and losing to Spain 2-0.

I understand you're applying hindsight, but without the benefit of that it's pretty obvious why he chose to play that way. Whether it's not being clinical or not having good defenders for this level the issue is player quality and not tactics.

Edited June 15 by 2426255

[Sesh]

1 hour ago, Butters Scotch said:

"Judging us against Germany is silly".

You said numerous times on here that you expected Scotland to win this tournament but then you think we shouldn't be judged against one of the favourites. 

This post isn't going to age well in Germany's next games.  We were utter shit,  Our goalkeeper let in 3 easy goals - everything went wrong.  Luxembourg would have have an attempt on goal.

 

 

Edited June 15 by Sesh

[Only coo in the village]

Irn Bru might be reviewing their advertising strategy after this humping. 

[54_and_counting]

2 hours ago, Richie said:

Reminiscent of previous Euros where Clarke gets us there, but then fucks the lineup in the tournament.

Gilmour had to start to drop deep, collect the ball and hold possession.

McGregor was 2 yards off it.

 We didn't press their wide men, midfield posted missing.

Midfield posted missing, mostly down to clarks setup

Everyone knows germany are great on the ball, they rarely misplace a pass or lose control of it, so what should have happened tonight is instead of trying to press the ball, you simply take away the options for the man in possession 

Having only one wide player and a 4 man midfield set up in a box formation almost is absolutely criminal, 

While christie and mcginn were chasing kroos and the big fucking unit andrich, the 3 attacking mids were overloading the 2 sitting mids, coupled with the fullbacks getting up the park it was essentially 5v4 just at the edge of the Scotland 3rd of the pitch

Meanwhile you have 3 centre halves not knowing to step up and help or too afraid to (someone should have made the onfield call, probably tierney or Robertson given their experience) so once the german midfield broke the lines all hell broke loose

He needed to simply allow the likes of kroos, rudiger etc to have the ball, but make sure they had no passing options, frustrate them, annoy them having to pass backwards etc 

[54_and_counting]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

In the games where we have tried to play possession football and go toe to toe we haven't done well, have we? England beat us 3-1, France 4-1 and The Netherlands 4-0. In our competitive games where we have tried to control the game without the ball we have had more success: Beating Spain 2-0 and losing to Spain 2-0.

I understand you're applying hindsight, but without the benefit of that it's pretty obvious why he chose to play that way. Whether it's not being clinical or not having good defenders for this level the issue is player quality and not tactics.

Ekok isnt saying go toe to toe with germany possession wise, he's simply saying it would have been a good idea if scotland could have kept the ball for a couple of seconds to either regain shape or for players to make moves for a pass

But arguably the back 3 plus the two mids in front of them are terrible at that, hence why a player of gilmours ability was badly needed in tonights game 

[54_and_counting]

3 hours ago, Raidernation said:

Been saying this for decades, Scotland, internationally, will almost always be on the back food, certainly not 70% possession. Bigot brothers players just cannot play defensively, so don’t fukking play them.

Almost all coast in every domestic game and haven’t a clue how to play on the back foot.

 

Oh, and Porteous, just GTF you doss c**t!

Thats a bit of a wild take, so scotland shouldnt pick any player who plays in a team that dominates the ball

So drop robertson, tierney, mcginn, Gilmour for starters 

[Chripper]

1 hour ago, 2426255 said:

In the games where we have tried to play possession football and go toe to toe we haven't done well, have we? England beat us 3-1, France 4-1 and The Netherlands 4-0. In our competitive games where we have tried to control the game without the ball we have had more success: Beating Spain 2-0 and losing to Spain 2-0.

I understand you're applying hindsight, but without the benefit of that it's pretty obvious why he chose to play that way. Whether it's not being clinical or not having good defenders for this level the issue is player quality and not tactics.

The matches against the Netherlands, England and France were deceptive.

I watched all three recently. Yes, we received three poundings on paper, but the results didn't reflect the general play.

For a start, in those three games we had a total of 23 shots. The result against the Dutch was incredible. Even van der Vaart said we should've won 4-0.

We matched France in possession and in shots. And the England game was more even than the scoreline suggests.

In all three games we really did play some nice, possession based football.

I would have to watch the Germany match over again, but it looked like we were playing 5-4-1 and our masterplan was to park the bus and escape with a point.

Well, I hope Steve Clarke realises now that against teams with world class players who can open up low blocks, those tactics are not going to work.

And dropping the only midfielder in the squad who always offers for the ball (Gilmour) was a mistake.

I just hope the players pride is hurt to the extent that they take their frustration out on the Swiss and Hungary.

We need to get back to how we played in the qualifying: Dynamic, on the front foot and fearless.

Last night was not a true reflection on the Scotland national team.

Hopefully we can redeem ourselves against the Swiss and Hungary.

[Braesoyetts]

A poor showing in which Scotland never really were in it.  Played timidly from the start, and allowed Germany way too much space.  

We might have had a better showing in the second half - in the last few minutes before the Germany penalty, Scotland looked like they were starting to get a bit more assertive, and a reset at half time might have done something - but Porteous's horror tackle put paid to that.  Still, we likely wouldn't have had a chance at getting anything out of the game even so, with giving ourselves a two goal handicap for no good reason.

Not particularly impressed by Clarke's tactical plan at all, though overall I've been pleased at his time in charge.  Hope he has a rethink before the next game.

 

Having said all that, it's one game.  A loss is a loss.  (Given the first half showing, it could easily have been a lot, lot, worse.)  It's how we respond in the next two that will define how this tournament is remembered for us.  One or two possible positives - this may sting our players into playing like their lives depend on it in the next two games (effectively going for 'revenge'), and this result also may make Hungary and Switzerland more complacent against us.  (Of course that only works if we actually turn up and play properly....)

Edited June 15 by Braesoyetts

[Vietnam91]

So .... it turns out, I actually hate fit'ba!

[Braesoyetts]

17 minutes ago, Vietnam91 said:

So .... it turns out, I actually hate fit'ba!

Well it's a good thing Scotland don't play fitba!

[Vietnam91]

Was like watching a snuff movie.

Every other nation in Europe must have been thinking they're tinpot when Kieran Tierney celebrated winning a by kick like he scored a penalty 5 mins in.

[Lyle Lanley]

5 hours ago, No_Problemo said:

Genuinely shambolic, and quite frankly potentially dangerous at times and I was there at six. 

The crowd management around the ground equally awful, no idea what they were playing at. The SFA should absolutely be making representations to UEFA about it. 

Went to get the train at half 5 but got on at half 6 and didn’t get to the station at the ground until 7.15 due to numerous stops in tunnels for a few mins at least each. 

[Barry Ferguson's Hat]

3 hours ago, SH Panda said:

The last goal was a bit annoying.

But we will be fine I think, no need to overreact. Two games to correct it.

Very much expect to see Gilmour start the next match.

Consistently, Scotland will never be able to compete with Germany, they are just much bigger than us. We have a decent chance against Switzerland and Hungary tho.

Yeah,4-1 would have been a far more accurate reflection.

It's almost as if we're utter shite. Literally one of the worst results in Euros history.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

If only we could channel repeated media -driven national delusion into competent football performances then we'd be fine.

If, and it's a big if, last night's horsing directs some attention to why Scotland's football authorities and leading clubs cannot or more likely will not develop native football players then it might just have been worth it.

[MarkoRaj]

If you're playing a back 5 against a time with roaming 10s going from out to in and full backs pushing high, you either need a flat 4 across the middle in a 5-4-1 or to take a few risks and allow some fluidity in who picks up who.

Far too often Robertson tucked in to cover Wirtz moving infield and that left Kimmich with the freedom of the park on that side.

Then you have Ralston not knowing whether to stick with Musiala or hold his position on the other side, resulting in an absolute shambles all over the pitch.

Up front it was the same, no width at all to the press which allowed Germany to pass around us at will.

The mistakes we made were tactical, the game plan was atrocious and it was as if we had never watched Germany before.

Those who are saying Gilmour should have started, or X player played really poor etc are missing the bigger picture.

We had zero chance with the way we setup. Clarke got nothing right and didn't change it until we were already 2-0 down. It doesn't matter what personnel you start with if the tactics are set up in a way that makes every single thing Germany do easier

[Zapp Brannigan]

The result when 4/6 of the goalkeeper and defence is English Championship level at best (generous in Ralston's case), playing against guys who have won the best tournaments in the world, and it showed.

The midfield were no better. McGregor back to his early Scotland career worst. He has only ever really played well whilst alongside Gilmour. He has been maybe the best, certainly the most consistent, player in Scotland for the past 5-7 years. However, scooshing the league with his beloved Celtic every year doesn't really cut it at this level I'm afraid.

McGinn has been amazing for Scotland but he was practically anonymous tonight. I would be interested to see his touch numbers because I genuinely don't remember him being on the ball. A victim of his own popularity possibly because Christie and McTominay were equally poor.

I've never really rated Adams but sadly for now he is probably out best option with how we want to play. I don't think chucking another striker on to help is the answer. We just need to find a way to get the rest of the team closer to him.

All that said, Germany were clearly up for it and were determined to start strongly. Not that they needed much help because we were so abject with defending which would be laughable at even juvenile level. They probably could have won that game 10-0 if they wanted but clearly took mercy on us the majority of the second half.

Lastly, a huge credit to the fans in the ground. A shame the team and coaching staff couldn't match your energy