Reason for horrible exit: lack of quality or overly-defensive tactics?

[velo army]

I'd add to all of this that, for a supposed team of captains and big characters, absolutely nobody took responsibility or tried to take the game by the scruff. McGinn is an utter shite bag of a player who has been getting a stupidly easy ride for a while. A player whose determination to win fouls often means that promising moves and attacking momentum are disrupted. The number of times I saw him just standing with his back to a player instead of making some sort of run was maddening. 

The man can't fucking pass a ball either. 

Decent run down the wing v Hungary though, and that's my frustration with him. He shows moments of brilliance but too often either hides or falls on top of the ball. 

[Butters Scotch]

4 minutes ago, velo army said:

I'd add to all of this that, for a supposed team of captains and big characters, absolutely nobody took responsibility or tried to take the game by the scruff. McGinn is an utter shite bag of a player who has been getting a stupidly easy ride for a while. A player whose determination to win fouls often means that promising moves and attacking momentum are disrupted. The number of times I saw him just standing with his back to a player instead of making some sort of run was maddening. 

The man can't fucking pass a ball either. 

Decent run down the wing v Hungary though, and that's my frustration with him. He shows moments of brilliance but too often either hides or falls on top of the ball. 

100 percent agree with all of this, McGinn's main attribute of using his arse has been well sussed out by referees and the opposition. We find it painfully difficult to create attacks in the first place and keep the ball high up the pitch but then our attacks generally flow through McGinn, he's the one expected to hold the ball up high up the pitch but when he doesn't win the free kick then it breaks down way too much.   

 

[George Parr]

10 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

100 percent agree with all of this, McGinn's main attribute of using his arse has been well sussed out by referees and the opposition. We find it painfully difficult to create attacks in the first place and keep the ball high up the pitch but then our attacks generally flow through McGinn, he's the one expected to hold the ball up high up the pitch but when he doesn't win the free kick then it breaks down way too much.   

 

Add to this the perception that his presence in the squad and media interaction etc, all seemed to revolve around shat-in-yer-shoes, cheeky-chappie, jolly-japes rather than a serious individual committed to doing well on an important occasion for his country.

Unfairly or not, I think the "tartan army" will eventually tire of McGinn if he doesn't cut the crap and start producing decent performances again.

[Bing.McCrosby]

3 minutes ago, George Parr said:

Add to this the perception that his presence in the squad and media interaction etc, all seemed to revolve around shat-in-yer-shoes, cheeky-chappie, jolly-japes rather than a serious individual committed to doing well on an important occasion for his country.

Unfairly or not, I think the "tartan army" will eventually tire of McGinn if he doesn't cut the crap and start producing decent performances again.

Tbh I thought it was hard to blame McGinn the other night, he's so isolated what can he do.

But I enjoyed shat-in-yer-shoes

[Ewanandmoreagain]

16 hours ago, 2426255 said:

What was the issue when Celtic lost to Killie in the league cup at the start of the season if you can remember?

The pitch !

[Ewanandmoreagain]

14 hours ago, Binos said:

We've beaten teams who then beat us in a finals 

These teams up their level for a finals match 

Our players appear incapable of this

Their managers will have sussed out our style of play

[Tartan Dave]

Think watching england makes it clearer to me the stuff we get wrong too. stop shoehorning all the midfielders in. An armstrong/gauld type might not have the prestige of mcginn mctominay but they have the talent to unlock teams in the mcginn/mctom don't. Should be horses for courses. 

[Snobot]

My abiding memory of the Hungary game will be McKenna, on the touch line about 25 yards from goal, looking absolutely lost and passing the ball back. If that was Tierney he looks to play triangles with Robertson, Gilmour etc and drives forward. Therein lies the problem. As others have said, we went with 4 at the back with success last time one of our LBs was out.

He could have gone something like Morgan and Forrest either side of whoever was upfront at around 60 mins and kept it relatively sensible out of possession but instead lost his mind at 80 mins.
 

 

Our problem seems to be all the preferred midfielders are either tidy (McG / Gilmour / McLean) or hard-running (McT / McG). All decent players but seriously lacking pace and genuine creativity, therefore one-dimensional. 
 

 

The most annoying thing about Gauld is that whilst he may never be up to it, we don’t know because he was never given the chance, unlike Morgan.  Maybe he would take to international football in the same way as others have done before him. He always struck me as ideally suited with his technique and game awareness. 

[jimbaxters]

35 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Tbh I thought it was hard to blame McGinn the other night, he's so isolated what can he do.

But I enjoyed shat-in-yer-shoes

Struggling to see how a supposed midfield play maker can be classified as "isolated"

[Bing.McCrosby]

13 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

Struggling to see how a supposed midfield play maker can be classified as "isolated"

By having nobody around him

[jimbaxters]

3 minutes ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

By having nobody around him

For the whole 100 minutes? You'll have to explain it better or have a rethink.

[No_Problemo]

5 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

For the whole 100 minutes? You'll have to explain it better or have a rethink.

He didn’t play 100 minutes, but while he was on the park - yes. 

We had three players in the attacking middle areas of the pitch, versus about seven Hungarian players who had nothing else to worry about bar Robertson. 

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 minutes ago, jimbaxters said:

For the whole 100 minutes? You'll have to explain it better or have a rethink.

Sure, say if he's in a position and receives the ball and there's nobody to pass to. He's limited as to what he can do.

[Butters Scotch]

1 hour ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Tbh I thought it was hard to blame McGinn the other night, he's so isolated what can he do.

But I enjoyed shat-in-yer-shoes

I thought he did quite well all things considered in the Hungary game but I'm basing my opinion over a number of matches for Scotland

[Bing.McCrosby]

5 minutes ago, Butters Scotch said:

I thought he did quite well all things considered in the Hungary game but I'm basing my opinion over a number of matches for Scotland

Yeah that's fair. But I think we've got to bare in mind as well tho he's being asked to play out of where he normally plays for his club. 

[Derryboy62]

46 minutes ago, No_Problemo said:

He didn’t play 100 minutes, but while he was on the park - yes. 

We had three players in the attacking middle areas of the pitch, versus about seven Hungarian players who had nothing else to worry about bar Robertson. 

The reason Hungary overloaded the middle is simply because they knew Scotland wouldn't play with any width. 

3atb only works if you have ball playing CHs who can step up to the middle and proper wingbacks who can either cross the ball or reach the back post when the attack is coming down the other wing. 

[2426255]

6 hours ago, Bing.McCrosby said:

Good result for Slovenia, using a back 4

Scotland defend in a five. Build from the back in a four or in a three. It varies. That's undertood.

Playing one more forward player isn't a silver bullet, it's not why England struggled.

It's not one for one cause and effect. It's how the players perform it, how the other team perform along with other variables fans aren't aware of.

Too simplistic.

[Bing.McCrosby]

7 minutes ago, 2426255 said:

Scotland defend in a five. Build from the back in a four or in a three. It varies. That's undertood.

Playing one more forward player isn't a silver bullet, it's not why England struggled.

It's not one for one cause and effect. It's how the players perform it, how the other team perform along with other variables fans aren't aware of.

Too simplistic.

Think you need a wee  break mate you've been posting that for 2 days. You admit you don't understand tactics so why are you getting involved.

[allyo]

My benefit of hindsight starting 11 for Hungary game.

Gunn 

Hendry, Hanley, McKenna, Robertson

McGinn, McGregor

Gilmour

McTominay, Shankland, Christie

[Pocketman]

a combination of factors:

1. the team generally being in a slump going into the Euros;

2. injuries to key players in the build up;

3. injury to Tierney at the tournament;

4. the second round monkey on back preying too heavily on Clarke's mind in determining how to approach games;

5. the pumping by Germany ensuring Clarke enforced a safety first approach to the remaining games; 

6. inflexibility on formation due to wish to maintain a solid defensive shape against Switzerland and Hungary;

The team was good enough to progress and an on-form Scotland would comfortably have qualified - would have at least beaten Hungary in my view.