Billy Jean King Posted July 1 Share Posted July 1 On 30/06/2024 at 14:43, 2426255 said: I am definitely generalising wrt fans. I dont have a negative view of all fans. Most of them? yeah probably. I cringe at the majority of England fans views on their team and manager, but I don't think Scotland fans, in general, are any different in that respect. I always look in detail back over the games to fully understand them. I haven't finished that as I spread it between camps: 5-10 minutes here and there looking at different aspects of performance. Clarke has said that they attempting to improve, evolve and progress as a team. We have done all of those things and we are trying to make the final step. The ambition is there, but sometimes you take a step in wrong direction and then you have to get back on the track. How exactly is Clarke going to get us back on track when all he does is repeat what no longer works constantly ? This is no longer a "step", it's been a sharp downward spiral for a dozen games. Never mind next level stuff, it's falling off the cliff stuff. I can see no effort by him to identify and then try to resolve what has gone wrong here. There was virtually no attempt to try anything new in the umpteen games in the lead up (some of which were terrible decisions in themselves opposition wise). Why not try the likes of Morgan and Conway when he had the chance. Likewise try a few different formations. The vague / cryptic answers when asked about eligibility of players was also nonsense. He either asked them or he didn't so why not just say that. If he hasn't a willingness to try anything different then it's difficult to defend his position. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chripper Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) Football is a game of fractions. If Grant Hanley scored instead of hitting the post against Switzerland and we were rightfully awarded the penalty and scored it against Hungary then Scotland would've finished the group with 6 points. All these Scotland fans wanting Steve Clarke gone are just as bad as the England fans who want Gareth Southgate gone. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. (West Ham's fans will realise this when their shiny new attacking manager is fired and they toss out another SOS to David Moyes, who the fans wanted out) Edited July 2 by Chripper -5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Chripper said: If Grant Hanley scored instead of hitting the post against Switzerland and we were rightfully awarded the penalty and scored it against Hungary then Scotland would've finished the group with 6 points This isn't how reality works. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Parr Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Chripper said: Football is a game of fractions. If Grant Hanley scored instead of hitting the post against Switzerland and we were rightfully awarded the penalty and scored it against Hungary then Scotland would've finished the group with 6 points. All these Scotland fans wanting Steve Clarke gone are just as bad as the England fans who want Gareth Southgate gone. Of course you could just as easily point to other “fractions”, like when Hungary hit the post. Ultimately, a team that underperforms and barely creates anything of note over 3 full matches is extremely unlikely to progress from a group. And so it proved with Scotland. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lex Posted July 2 Author Share Posted July 2 6 hours ago, Chripper said: Football is a game of fractions. If Grant Hanley scored instead of hitting the post against Switzerland and we were rightfully awarded the penalty and scored it against Hungary then Scotland would've finished the group with 6 points. Love takes like this Conveniently ignores all the things that went for us in the three games - our two freak goals, the very marginal offsides lading to goals for the opponents being disallowed by VAR, Gunn making several good saves in the final two games, The Swiss somehow missing a free header from six yards out in the final minute, Hungary hitting the post and bar before they scored etc etc. But if we got a penalty that wasn't a penalty and was either offside or very close to being offside, scored the penalty and then held on against a Hungarian onslaught... and Hanley scored and we held on against The subsequent Swiss onslaught.. 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2426255 Posted July 2 Share Posted July 2 (edited) 14 hours ago, Billy Jean King said: How exactly is Clarke going to get us back on track when all he does is repeat what no longer works constantly ? I can see no effort by him to identify and then try to resolve what has gone wrong here. There was virtually no attempt to try anything new in the umpteen games in the lead up. If he hasn't a willingness to try anything different then it's difficult to defend his position. Clarke has tried different things in these last 2 games (Germany was a write-off) and before that to be fair. Mostly tweaks. One quick example is the positions Robertson and McTominay were taking up. I haven't finished pulling it together, but it's there so you can see for yourself. It's obvious in both matches after 15-20 minutes, so you don't have to watch the full thing. There's other stuff, but I want to finish looking at it. Edited July 2 by 2426255 -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Here's a depressing wee game I've been playing in my head.... Take any team apart from Scotland at Euro 2024, Take that team's most special moment at just this tournament, Consider Scotland's most special moment in our entire history of tournament football, Compare the two, and decide whether Scotland have EVER had a special moment in tournament football which can exceed ANY other team's most special moment in this tournament alone. I reckon you could make a case against it. It'll depress you. Don't play it! (Winning by-kicks doesn't count) -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Yes, I'm not sure we've ever had a moment which could match that time Poland scored a penalty equaliser in a dead-rubber against France. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Poland! Ah you might have got me there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 11 minutes ago, craigkillie said: Yes, I'm not sure we've ever had a moment which could match that time Poland scored a penalty equaliser in a dead-rubber against France. *re-taken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richey Edwards Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 I forgot Scotland were in this Euros. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Maybe Belgium and Czechia also. That's about it I reckon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie S Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 (edited) 16 minutes ago, allyo said: Here's a depressing wee game I've been playing in my head.... Take any team apart from Scotland at Euro 2024, Take that team's most special moment at just this tournament, Consider Scotland's most special moment in our entire history of tournament football, Compare the two, and decide whether Scotland have EVER had a special moment in tournament football which can exceed ANY other team's most special moment in this tournament alone. I reckon you could make a case against it. It'll depress you. Don't play it! (Winning by-kicks doesn't count) Archie Gemmil’s goal against the Netherlands in Argentina in ‘78 to put us 3-1 up is one of the greatest goals and most special moments I’ve ever seen in any tournament for any team, let alone for Scotland. Ultimately we didn’t win by the required margin, and the Peru and Iran games were hugely disappointing, but that was a special moment nonetheless. Edited July 3 by Frankie S 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 14 minutes ago, allyo said: Here's a depressing wee game I've been playing in my head.... Take any team apart from Scotland at Euro 2024, Take that team's most special moment at just this tournament, Consider Scotland's most special moment in our entire history of tournament football, Compare the two, and decide whether Scotland have EVER had a special moment in tournament football which can exceed ANY other team's most special moment in this tournament alone. I reckon you could make a case against it. It'll depress you. Don't play it! (Winning by-kicks doesn't count) Serbia, Czech Rep, Poland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Archie Gemmill's bubble was burst after 5 minutes. Fair enough it was a "moment", but I'd swap it for something that's happened to virtually every other team in this tournament. End of that game was misery. Serbia scored an injury time equaliser to keep them in the tournament. Imagine the scenes. I'd take that over Gemmill's goal. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigkillie Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 5 minutes ago, allyo said: Serbia scored an injury time equaliser to keep them in the tournament. Imagine the scenes. I'd take that over Gemmill's goal. That goal made absolutely no difference to Serbia, they wouldn't have been out even if they had lost 1-0, and they'd still have had to beat Denmark in their final game to qualify. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 (edited) I don't think that's true. There was a general view that 4 points was needed to qualify. No one in Serbia at the end of that game was thinking, you know what, it probably makes no difference. Eta, or maybe I'm wrong. Not sure. Edited July 3 by allyo 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 On 02/07/2024 at 01:42, Chripper said: Football is a game of fractions. If Grant Hanley scored instead of hitting the post against Switzerland and we were rightfully awarded the penalty and scored it against Hungary then Scotland would've finished the group with 6 points. All these Scotland fans wanting Steve Clarke gone are just as bad as the England fans who want Gareth Southgate gone. The grass isn't always greener on the other side. (West Ham's fans will realise this when their shiny new attacking manager is fired and they toss out another SOS to David Moyes, who the fans wanted out) No it isn't. It's about trying to score goals and Scotland made very little attempt at doing that in their 3 games. Hence the single point won and finishing comfortably bottom of the group. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 hour ago, allyo said: I don't think that's true. There was a general view that 4 points was needed to qualify. No one in Serbia at the end of that game was thinking, you know what, it probably makes no difference. Eta, or maybe I'm wrong. Not sure. Scotland have gotten results that kept us in tournaments that ultimately didn't work out in the end. At least equivalent to that moment for the Serbs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allyo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 We have got equivalent results, but never by scoring a dramatic late goal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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