Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, oaksoft said: The government use the Big 4 accountancy firms to draft tax and accounts legislation. It doesn't. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 4 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Interesting article from 2013 about the big 4 accountancy firms and their role in the legislation they subsequently help companies avoid. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tax-avoidance-treasury-minister-dismisses-absurd-warning-that-hmrc-is-too-cosy-with-accountancy-8588945.html Haven't found anything to suggest that this arrangement has changed. Nowhere in that article does it suggest that people from the Big 4 draft accounts and tax legislation, which was your claim. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glasgow-sheep Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 It doesn't.Haven't read it in a while but private eye had monthly stories about the revolving door between the big four and HMRC. Maybe they aren't directly writing it but not far off. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 Just now, glasgow-sheep said: 15 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: It doesn't. Haven't read it in a while but private eye had monthly stories at the revolving door between the big four and HMRC. Maybe they aren't directly writing it but not far off. Yes, those stories were about people going from HMRC to the Big 4. It would have to be the other way around for it to be a concern. And it's worth pointing out that HMRC don't initiate tax policy. That's for the politicians. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, oaksoft said: Governments typically don't have expertise to do very much. In the case of tax and accounts legislation they rely on staff from the Big 4 spending secondments helping them to draft this stuff. That's the conflict of interest. But they don't draft this stuff... -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: Yes, those stories were about people going from HMRC to the Big 4. Whats up? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 10 minutes ago, Dindeleux said: Whats up? Stunned it took you so long tbh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dindeleux Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, jupe1407 said: Stunned it took you so long tbh Only just noticed it on the "recent posts" part of the homepage. Won't derail the thread though - as you were. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 It doesn't.It actually does. https://www-independent-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/top-accountancy-firms-accused-of-exploiting-tax-laws-they-helped-to-draft-8476028.html?amp_js_v=a2&_gsa=1&&usqp=mq331AQA#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.independent.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fuk%2Fhome-news%2Ftop-accountancy-firms-accused-of-exploiting-tax-laws-they-helped-to-draft-8476028.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 1 minute ago, Baxter Parp said: 1 hour ago, Tibbermoresaint said: It doesn't. It actually does. I'm ex-HMRC. It actually doesn't. Legislation is drafted by Parliamentary Draftsmen, who are government lawyers. Secondees from the Big 4 are accountants and tax consultants rather than lawyers. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 It actually doesn't. Legislation is drafted by Parliamentary Draftsmen, who are government lawyers. Secondees from the Big 4 are accountants and tax consultants rather than lawyers.See my edit. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 3 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: It actually doesn't. Legislation is drafted by Parliamentary Draftsmen, who are government lawyers. Secondees from the Big 4 are accountants and tax consultants rather than lawyers. See my edit. I've seen it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 I've seen it.So the big 4 helps HMRC write their regulations and then goes and sells schemes to businesses that subvert them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 1, 2019 Share Posted July 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 7 minutes ago, Tibbermoresaint said: I've seen it. So the big 4 helps HMRC write their regulations and then goes and sells schemes to businesses that subvert them. The suggestion was that the Big 4 draft legislation, which isn't true. They certainly advise individuals and businesses how to legally minimise their tax liabilities. Which they're perfectly entitled to do. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 The way things currently "work" are gamekeeper turns poacher - of course that is a problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Just now, oaksoft said: Correct. The second line in the article confirms this. Senior employees from companies such as KPMG are seconded to the Treasury to work with civil servants writing complex new tax laws. It doesn't. It's lazy journalism. As you're clearly a stupid c**t I'll repeat. Parliamentary draftsmen, who are lawyers, draft laws. Secondees from accountancy firms, who are accountants but not lawyers, do not draft laws. Because they're not lawyers. This is basic stuff. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tibbermoresaint Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, oaksoft said: Interesting 2017 peer reviewed academic article about the Big 4. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1090951617303553 If anyone is interested they can access this article for free by going to sci-hub.tw and entering the DOI number of the article. From the abstract, I can quote directly:- The Big 4 also frequently provide advice to governments on the design of tax policy − sometimes seconding staff to draft laws − and advocate publicly and privately for particular policy changes, nationally and internationally in fora such as the OECD. As such, they have both the expertise and influence by which they may be able to reduce the effective tax rates of their clients. Interesting article, thanks for sharing it. Nowhere in that article does it say that secondees from the Big 4 draft tax legislation in the UK. Edited July 2, 2019 by Tibbermoresaint Clarity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 8 hours ago, Stinky Bone said: I own a small property that I wish to give him after my death. It is no mansion, just a small house and I would like him to have it. It would be the only way he could have his own home. But if thresholds are reduced to such a scale as £125k, then in the future that might mean my son will not be able to afford to live in my house when I die, he doesn't have the money to pay the taxman. This makes no sense. How can the tax bill be less affordable than paying rent for the rest of your life? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Can someone just remove the words 'of Labour' from this thread title ? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeeTillEhDeh Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Can someone just remove the words 'of Labour' from this thread title ?Just removing H_B would suffice. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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