What is the point of labour ?

[scottsdad]

Right as always

[Wee-Bey]

We did it lads.

[NotThePars]

An undoubted W for the good guys in Pollokshields yesterday and the Labour Party use it as an opportunity to launch another factional dispute. 

"Hey isn't it a good thing that the people stood up to a cruel and oppressive government?"

"I have no opinions on this. I am simply going to throw more people out of the Labour Party"

[Granny Danger]

People in England and Wales need a credible left-of-centre political party.*  It is very unhealthy in a representative democracy not to have that.  I’m beginning to think that Labour may never fill that role again leaving a situation more akin to the USA and creating a huge democratic deficit.

* As will we post-Independence.

[Ross.]

27 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

People in England and Wales need a credible left-of-centre political party.*  It is very unhealthy in a representative democracy not to have that.  I’m beginning to think that Labour may never fill that role again leaving a situation more akin to the USA and creating a huge democratic deficit.

* As will we post-Independence.

If they could step away from the endless focus groups who seem to develop policy for them by looking at what the tories are doing and softening the language via buzzword bingo, and instead come out with policies that would actually make a real difference to improving the lives of the millions in the UK who live in relative poverty and are classed as "working poor", then they might have a fucking chance of reviving themselves.

[Antlion]

9 minutes ago, Ross. said:

If they could step away from the endless focus groups who seem to develop policy for them by looking at what the tories are doing and softening the language via buzzword bingo, and instead come out with policies that would actually make a real difference to improving the lives of the millions in the UK who live in relative poverty and are classed as "working poor", then they might have a fucking chance of reviving themselves.

I’d add to that they also need a presentable, preferably celebrity, leader. Unfortunately, that’s what voters in England seem to want of their parties: “characters”, preferably good old British eccentrics. 

[Ross.]

8 minutes ago, Antlion said:

I’d add to that they also need a presentable, preferably celebrity, leader. Unfortunately, that’s what voters in England seem to want of their parties: “characters”, preferably good old British eccentrics. 

He might be a racist, misogynist and generally irredeemable all round arsehole, but his hair looks like he has just got out of bed, what a character he is, we'll take him.

[Granny Danger]

5 minutes ago, Ross. said:

He might be a racist, misogynist and generally irredeemable all round arsehole, but his hair looks like he has just got out of bed, what a character he is, we'll take him.

That would be more amusing if it weren’t so true.

[Detournement]

On 11/05/2021 at 22:38, yoda said:

I like some of Grace Blakeley's stuff (although I had to put her book "Financialisation" down). She has been involved in a couple of interesting IPPR papers.

However she's disappeared down the "I work for Novara and I spend my time postulating about how we can reawaken class consciousness in Britain like I'm at a politics society cheese and wine night". Which is fine, I guess, but it comes across as left wing grifting. Particularly when you're a privately educated, Oxbridge PPE graduate.

Stuart Hall and Perry Anderson were/are privately educated Oxbridge grads. I don't think it matters much. 

Nothing good is going to happen in the UK (or iScotland) unless there's a winning electoral coalition centred on working class people. That's the exact project that Starmer is in place to prevent.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

23 minutes ago, Antlion said:

I’d add to that they also need a presentable, preferably celebrity, leader. Unfortunately, that’s what voters in England seem to want of their parties: “characters”, preferably good old British eccentrics. 

I agree.  So what Labour needs is the policies of Clement Attlee delivered by Benny Hill in his Fred Scuttle incarnation.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

If they could step away from the endless focus groups who seem to develop policy for them by looking at what the tories are doing and softening the language via buzzword bingo, and instead come out with policies that would actually make a real difference to improving the lives of the millions in the UK who live in relative poverty and are classed as "working poor", then they might have a fucking chance of reviving themselves.

We did that in 2017. Unfortunately, Jeremy had a beard and liked gardening.
As posted above, voting for a character seems to be the way forward. I guess stopping children starving isn't as big a vote winner as serial lying, adultery and corruption.

[Detournement]

Just now, Pato said:

Weird take. I think it's pretty uncontroversial to say elite institutions in the main serve to maintain those elites even if they spit out a George Monbiot every so often.

Monbiot is a tosser. 

I was just pointing out that Blakely is hardly an exception with her background and it's irrelevant because she is doing good work. 

[Detournement]

Just now, Pato said:

Really struggle to fathom how you can hold 'the west is built on a colonilist advantage it should cede to the developing world' and 'elite institutions that exist because of the former are fine tbh' in your head at the same time

I didn't say it's fine they exist. I'm saying that people like Hall and Blakely can make important contributions despite their privileged background. 

[Detournement]

Just now, Pato said:

But someone like Adam Curtis can't, am I getting this right?

The important thing is that he doesn't. 

[Salt n Vinegar]

I was on a zoom call with a pal who is a long-standing Labour Party supporter.  He was having the usual "go" about results, mandates and so on. I asked him what was so great about Anas Sarwar, and... I kid you not, with a straight face, he said "well, he's better than Willie Rennie." 

Well, that's me convinced! 

[Antlion]

Just now, Salt n Vinegar said:

I was on a zoom call with a pal who is a long-standing Labour Party supporter.  He was having the usual "go" about results, mandates and so on. I asked him what was so great about Anas Sarwar, and... I kid you not, with a straight face, he said "well, he's better than Willie Rennie." 

Well, that's me convinced! 

I have some toenail clippings he can vote for, if ‘better than Willie Rennie” is where his bar’s set.

[Detournement]

4 minutes ago, Pato said:

But I've never seen you attack the substance of his stuff, it's his background with RCP/Living Marxism & its corresponding links with Spiked. Sometimes background is disqualifying in your eyes and sometimes it isn't.

There is a difference between the circumstances of your birth and choosing as an adult to associate with Furedi, Fox, O'Neill etc. 

I'm fairly certain that I've posted that I think Curtis's method is designed to undermine materialist analysis with nonsense like focusing on Mao's wife or Limonov. Class struggle and imperialism barely exist for him which is why he is supported and promoted by the BBC.

 

[Detournement]

[Ross.]

2 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

We did that in 2017. Unfortunately, Jeremy had a beard and liked gardening.
As posted above, voting for a character seems to be the way forward. I guess stopping children starving isn't as big a vote winner as serial lying, adultery and corruption.

Unfortunately for Labour, Corbyn has too much of the “grandad” about him and no matter what he done, the press were able to paint him as some eccentric old duffer who means well but punches like being tickled by a feather, and is perhaps going senile. Even with that, he was able to Garner what now looks like a sensational number of votes when he stood for election. Labour should have doubled down on that, but sadly for the UK they decided to go with a guy who really wouldn’t be out of place in the current government, and seem to be making all their strategic decisions based on that.

[Florentine_Pogen]

I’d add to that they also need a presentable, preferably celebrity, leader. Unfortunately, that’s what voters in England seem to want of their parties: “characters”, preferably good old British eccentrics. 

To quote Winston Wolf in Pulp Fiction - "Just because you have character doesn't make you a character."