leaguereformer Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 On 17/08/2024 at 17:01, coistysgoldenboots said: The guy McDowall is working an agenda and it’s as clear as day. He is an absolute dinosaur and determined to throw a wrecking ball at the wosfl and anything else to preserve his precious SJFA blazer. Thank god he failed in his election bid but it may only be a matter of time till he gets his way, no doubt aided and abetted from like minded folks on the wosfl committee and at various Wosfl clubs. I am sure he only lost by a couple of votes. In regards to him being a dinosaur without knowing him personally, as an outlooker looking in Gartcairn (for all their flaws I.e plastic pitch, not great support etc…) they are a well run club. Constantly upgrading their facilities whilst others ground share etc…don’t think he could be viewed as a dinosaur 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairWeatherFan Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 10 minutes ago, leaguereformer said: The SRCC take a 10% cut of every gate so assuming that should build up quite a bit of money in the pot. Yet they continuously get hounded for the prize pot or lack of, so where does the money go? If there is also a sponsor putting up the prize money where does all the gate money from every single tie go? Since when? As it certainly wasn't the case until sometime after 2022-23. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leaguereformer Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 11 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said: Since when? As it certainly wasn't the case until sometime after 2022-23. They take a 10% cut of all takings from gates. Unsure when it started however in place now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 40 minutes ago, leaguereformer said: The SRCC take a 10% cut of every gate so assuming that should build up quite a bit of money in the pot. Yet they continuously get hounded for the prize pot or lack of, so where does the money go? If there is also a sponsor putting up the prize money where does all the gate money from every single tie go? Thank you for that; do you have figures for the SJC. I have read some bits and bobs re gate monies, entrance/membership fees but would rather see it all together. I take it clubs dont pay an 'entrance fee' for the SRCC which I believe there is for the SJC. The SJC and SJFA are over a century old. The SJFA have monies in the bank, a long standing income from television, the history and tradition that draws in tourism fans for individual games. The SRCC is about 10 years old, I do believe there was financial aid from the SFA in the beginning only, so don't imagine any funds are built up, and obviously does not draw in tourism fans or any TV coverage. Sponsorship money can sometimes be just enough to cover admin and running costs. The SJC has run without a sponsor and still been profitable for the SJFA. As an 'outsider', I see this competition between the two cups. There is the Junioristas on one side and the Pyramidistas on the other. As usual in these tussles it's not about positivity; it becomes about shining negativity on the enemy competition. In the end it will be football that suffers. Your comment in a later post about this horrendous cup, suggests which camp you are in. Instead of clubs and fans in the WOSFL belittling and deriding the SRCC and the pyramid setup, wouldn't it be more beneficial to work with the other Lowland Leagues improving the SRCC and the pyramid. The same can be directed at the Pyramidstas who are trying to kill off the SJC. As usual with Scottish Football everyone is pulling in different directions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 If you are a member club of the SJFA there is no entry fee for the Junior Cup. There is an entry fee if you enter as a guest club such as Pollok and others have done 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, leaguereformer said: I’m sure the fine if applied will not be more than the cost of Gartcairns bus to St Andrews. Take a slap on the wrist and stay out the horrendous cup. Fine them £10,000 and let them knock £100 off for every season ticket they’ve sold. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenny*******Powers Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 On 16/08/2024 at 21:59, southerner said: Player win bonuses, buses other running costs etc, would like to win any cup but would swap league points for this one personally. Might sound daft, but why would you pay win bonuses that you can’t afford? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 21 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: If you are a member club of the SJFA there is no entry fee for the Junior Cup. There is an entry fee if you enter as a guest club such as Pollok and others have done 22 minutes ago, Wile E Coyote said: If you are a member club of the SJFA there is no entry fee for the Junior Cup. There is an entry fee if you enter as a guest club such as Pollok and others have done As a member of the SJFA do clubs pay an annual fee. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 Just now, An Absolute Imposter said: As a member of the SJFA do clubs pay an annual fee. I believe so. I assume you also have to pay to be a member of the WOSFL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southerner Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 1 hour ago, Kenny*******Powers said: Might sound daft, but why would you pay win bonuses that you can’t afford? Not sure workings of the club,maybe win bonuses set at beginning of season prior to knowing any prize money, think that was the first season we were in it. Think it’s right players are rewarded for success above their weekly wage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
An Absolute Imposter Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 2 hours ago, Wile E Coyote said: I believe so. I assume you also have to pay to be a member of the WOSFL Its like any association I would presume were members pay a fee. The SRCC is run by the 4 leagues, so how the hell is it funded. I don't imagine clubs pay to enter the SRCC. Without having any knowledge of the SRCC, I'm beginning to think that it is almost an afterthought of a competition. Could be wrong of course. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 (edited) On 18/08/2024 at 19:36, leaguereformer said: I’m sure the fine if applied will not be more than the cost of Gartcairns bus to St Andrews. Take a slap on the wrist and stay out the horrendous cup. Well you did ask for it, so you want to know the truth about the cup you love so much, as you normally talk utter rubbish and only put information on either what you idolize and ignore or blatantly hide information due to your love affair with your Scottish Junior Cup. You open your mouth and so ill prepared, its embarrassing, you leave yourself open that even dummies can see the truth. The prize money on its own from the SJC which is the best in non league Scottish football and is excellent Last season and this season I think the prize money for the junior cup was and still is £20,000 for winner £10,000 for runner up £5,000 for 2 losing semi finalists £2000 for 4 losing quarter finalists £500 for 8 losing Last 16 £100, for 16 losing Last 32 Now some costs, (the prices are not exact as each coach company are different and not all distances are exact same but as I've arranged busses to these destinations previously for teams as I've received discounts due to my work with bus companies previous so I know what prices they usually are. Prices listed are what a minimum they are expected to pay for the distances they are travelling to and from and that's without the club stopping off to get arrange breakfast for players n staff. Usually I'll go the minimum of £900 for Aberdeenshire but could be higher at £1000 etc... And Angus and Northern Perthshire from Glasgow is about £600 Bellshill got 3 Aberdeenshire games in the first two rounds of season 22/23 costing a minimum £900 each so they paid out £2700 and I believed they only received £480 expenses, (2 journeys) from the SJC as the SJC didn't fork out for the re arranged game that was abandoned, (informed by the Bellshill committee and they were not happy). So it was a £2220 loss They reached the quarter final and received £2000, so they are really lucky they reached the quarters or it would have been a bigger loss had they not received the £2000 prize money. But there were many teams paying out £900 for transport and not reaching far, so the cup was a total loss for them. There maybe a few teams who have special deals arranged with bus companies either knowing or a fan run company to get cheaper deals but not by much Below gives you an idea of losses Troon have had two belters in last two season, V Blairgowrie this season which probably about minimum £600 and the defeat to Dufftown last season about £900, which was a trading loss of £600 in the Scottish junior cup 23/24 p.s the travelling team get half the gate but most are not really big crowds. So the clubs will try and recuperate some money by allowing fans to pay to be on team bus for the away fixture and also arrange some sort of sponsorship. Also, I've only given you WOSFL teams when travelling away as I've not added Aberdeenshire teams travelling down to Ayrshire of Glasgow and I haven't even touched Edinburgh teams travelling to Aberdeenshire etc.. so below is only a very small sample of the major travelling most teams have to do in one or two rounds of the cup. So any team travelling to Aberdeenshire from Glasgow or Ayrshire usually have a £660 loss for each round. Any team travelling To Angus and Northern Perthshire usually have a £420 loss for each round, (shorter distance and cheaper but as its usually the full day for the driver, its still costly) SJC Season 23/24 Banchory St Ternan 0 Maybole 8 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Bridge of Don 0 Maryhill 0 4.3 " Buchaven Hearts o Ardeer 0 4.5 " Burghead 1 Lesmahgow 3 " Frazerburgh 0 Shotts 4 " Islavale 2 Greenock 2 6.7 " Narin st Ninians 0 Ardrossan 4 " Scone 1 Kello 1 2.4 over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Blairgowrie 0 Troon 3 " Brechin vics 0 Bellshill 2 " 2nd Bridge of Don 6 Irvine Vics 1 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Culter 4 Craigmark 2 " Hall Russell 2 Lesmahagow 5 " Hermes 3 Beith 1 " Aberdeen east end 5 EK Thistle 0 " 3rd Bridge of Don 1 Auchinleck 1 2.4 over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Hermes 0 Hurlford 8 " Rothies 4 Shotts 3 " Downfield 1 Darly 0 over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Dundee violet 1 St Cadocs 0 " This season 24/25 Cruden Bay v Neilston over £900 cost for transport only receiving in the region £240 expenses - £660 loss Banks of Dee v Muirkirk " Bridge of Don v Glasgow United " Hermes v Cumnock " Dufftown v Troon " Ellon v Glenafton " Forfar v Renfrew over £600 cost for transport only receiving in the region £180 expenses - £420 loss Carnoustie Benburb " Lochee hard v West park " Again i have just give you listings of WOSFL teams who have travelled far and i haven't given you the northern teams who travel south and haven't included any East coast teams who have travelled. So there is a huge loss for many teams who have to travel far in the first 3 rounds and are knocked out. What I love about this is that these are facts or as close too and its what teams pay for transport and receive in expenses with about 1/3 of the teams lose money from the junior cup and you get jealous muppets that hate the truth that shows up their junior idealism and all they can do with their hatred is red dot Edited August 19 by Bestsinceslicebread -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spyro Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 @Shannon don't do it! I can see you typing... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 What about likes of Bridge of Don v Talbot I don't think seems right as they would get a share of the gate which would be their biggest crowd of the season as well as travelling expenses? Plus with a tie like that often get a local sponsor to cover the team bus plus most teams will have fans or committee on their team bus that pay towards the bus so it's never a straight forward loss. I have my doubts they made a loss playing Talbot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 18 Share Posted August 18 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Shannon said: What about likes of Bridge of Don v Talbot I don't think seems right as they would get a share of the gate which would be their biggest crowd of the season as well as travelling expenses? Plus with a tie like that often get a local sponsor to cover the team bus plus most teams will have fans or committee on their team bus that pay towards the bus so it's never a straight forward loss. I have my doubts they made a loss playing Talbot. If its regarding my post I've not added in attendances but most games were small crowds, teams like Talbot and Pollok etc... can and have taken busses only with supporters so thats a different ball game. Sure the away club gets the money from half the attendance for each game, ( I believe - someone can confirm). I'm giving clarity of losses and how much losses for transport only. I had already commented on paying fans etc.. on the post anyways so it wasn't hidden Edited August 19 by Bestsinceslicebread -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) It's not a straight loss though as clearly Bridge of Don will have got more than enough fans through the gate v Talbot and likewise other way about so neither team loss money as such. Probably quite the opposite especially with Talbots travelling support and even Bridge of Don would have had a sizeable number of more fans at their game as will come out to see Talbot as a very recognisable name plus extra sponsorship, hospitality and exposure for the club plus may get odd fans in area coming back for run of mill league games as put up a great game v Talbot and defeated Irvine Victoria so those games may encourage even just a few locals to go down every week or even join their committee etc which is vital to keep clubs like this going. If no Junior Cup they simply don't get any of those benefits. Most teams will have everyone outside their playing and coaching staff paying towards it so it's never a straight loss but aye it's expensive if get a couple of long distance draws but I am sure Bridge of Don won't wish they never took part in Junior Cup on a football side of things as well as financial. Also this is from 2-3 years ago so may be out of date but if over 101 miles Association contributes to it too. " the following table:- Distance 0-25 miles 26-50 miles 51-75 miles 76-100 miles 101-150 miles 151-200 miles 201-250 miles 251-300 miles Guarantee £55 £95 £120 £170 £220 £270 £310 £340 Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single journey between the competing clubs. In addition those clubs incurring a 101 plus mile single journey, the Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee towards the away team’s travel costs. " Edited August 19 by Shannon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 19 minutes ago, Spyro said: @Shannon don't do it! I can see you typing... Too late 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bestsinceslicebread Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Shannon said: It's not a straight loss though as clearly Bridge of Don will have got more than enough fans through the gate v Talbot and likewise other way about so neither team loss money as such. Probably quite the opposite especially with Talbots travelling support and even Bridge of Don would have had a sizeable number of more fans at their game as will come out to see Talbot as a very recognisable name plus extra sponsorship, hospitality and exposure for the club plus may get odd fans in area coming back for run of mill league games as put up a great game v Talbot and defeated Irvine Victoria so those games may encourage even just a few locals to go down every week or even join their committee etc which is vital to keep clubs like this going. If no Junior Cup they simply don't get any of those benefits. Most teams will have everyone outside their playing and coaching staff paying towards it so it's never a straight loss but aye it's expensive if get a couple of long distance draws but I am sure Bridge of Don won't wish they never took part in Junior Cup on a football side of things as well as financial. Also this is from 2-3 years ago so may be out of date but if over 101 miles Association contributes to it too. " the following table:- Distance 0-25 miles 26-50 miles 51-75 miles 76-100 miles 101-150 miles 151-200 miles 201-250 miles 251-300 miles Guarantee £55 £95 £120 £170 £220 £270 £310 £340 Mileage shall be calculated on the basis of the shortest single journey between the competing clubs. In addition those clubs incurring a 101 plus mile single journey, the Association will contribute a further 50% of the above guarantee towards the away team’s travel costs. " The prices you have quoted are still correct as far as I'm aware but most I've given prices to Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, there are teams further north which more travelling expenses you've quoted but the prices for coaches is huge. Your commenting on Talbot but can you stop just thinking one way, not every team is Talbot. Any team Talbot visit will bring out the home support, not teams like Maryhill, Bellshill, Lugar, Benburb, Shotts, Neilston, Ardeer etc.. if any of those teams and majority of WOSFL teams visit will bring in a crowd but nothing that makes a huge difference to the coffers., only the big guns will do like Talbot, Clydebank, Pollok etc.. every team I've listed will try and fill up the busses with paying supporters to help fund the main busses up to their games. I don't believe there is anyone against a full non league Scottish cup, (I would love it but right now it wont happen due to funding etc..) and many Northern and east teams don't want anything to do with the Junior cup, there's a reason for that! Edited August 19 by Bestsinceslicebread -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shannon Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Even an 20-40 fans extra through the gate at £4-8, raffles, programme but most importantly if the home team has hospitality area etc that can be more than enough fans to help home clubs make a decent profit from a visit of a team who isn't as well supported. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbaxters Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Again I say, clubs who enter the Scottish Junior Cup know there's a risk of a long distance away tie yet CHOOSE to enter. For me, that kind of makes these figure projections a moot point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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