seamus Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 You're failing to grasp what I'm saying. No where have I said everyone who resides in Shettleston could be put into the same bracket, but I am saying those you see while passing through area give you a pretty good indication of who lives there. In what way is that arrogant, or in fact, untrue? I'm also saying that Gill has successfully and vividly described the people he met there. Do you disagree? You are failing to be clear about what you are saying. I think you have contradicted yourself and also managed to agree with Gill's drive by assesmemt at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I take it you'd like the article all the same if it was about Cumbernauld, which is probably as bad as Shettleston.Not it doesn't. If someone wrote an accurate article about Cumbernauld then I wouldn't have a problem with it. In fact, I remember heartily agreeing with the Idler Book of Crap Towns assessment of the 'nauld and all the comments that have been passed on the state of the town centre. I'm not that parochial. I know the east end well and the paragragh you've highlighted resonates with me. wearealldoomed is another poster who knows the area in question and you'll notice if you look back over the thread that he too states he'd have know where it was Gill was describing had he not named it. That suggest to me there's truth in what he's written, whether you agree with it's sentiments or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 You are failing to be clear about what you are saying.I think you have contradicted yourself and also managed to agree with Gill's drive by assesmemt at the same time. I'm saying that Gill has succefully described the people you would encounter if you were to take a drive or walk through Shettleston. I have also said that if you were to dig a bit deeper then you would find other characters, as you would in any other part of the country. Where exactly have I contradicted myself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss..schlecht Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 So the residents of Shettleston all walk about thinking they and their neighbours look fantastic? Look at the article as a whole Supras. The fact they 'don't look good' is political. Gill is saying that these people are among Labour's staunchest supporters and yet the party has turned its back on them, allowing the area, and it's people, to fall into disrepair. He does note that the people he encounters haven't helped themselves, which goes back to what I said about people having the choice not to become products of their environment, but he's laying the blame at the feet of those in power. Yes the people of the area have not helped themselves and to try and lay the blame at someone elses' feet for political point scoring or as an excuse is nonsense. As you said you don't have to become a product of your environment, how about "these people" take some fucking personal responsibility. I didn't say the people I've seen are the only inhabitants of Shettleston, but they do give a pretty good indication of those who live there, wouldn't you say. As I've already pointed out, Gill only scratches the surface of the populace, but does accurately describe those he meets. Again you could say that Gill is only reporting on those he wanted to meet. How much effort did he put into meeting a broad spectrum of people from the area? If you come round my area on a weekday afternoon then you'll likely meet similar people but this does not give a "good indication of those who live there", it gives you a good indication of the out of work and general wasters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 My problem is that this guy has gone through Shettleston during the day, obviously out in the midst of tanning salons and going into pubs. What he has written is based only on what he's seen. Had he gone through at another time of day and spoken to business owners (like the people running these salons and pubs that he speaks of), had bothered to mention the fact that there are many other small business - several butchers and fruitshops, fishmongers, florists, bakeries, salons (and not of the tanning variety), dentists, newsagents, I could go on, but listing them all is boring even me - he could have written a very different article. Then again, I don't think that's really what he wanted to do. Again you could say that Gill is only reporting on those he wanted to meet. How much effort did he put into meeting a broad spectrum of people from the area? If you come round my area on a weekday afternoon then you'll likely meet similar people but this does not give a "good indication of those who live there", it gives you a good indication of the out of work and general wasters. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Your point being what ss..schlect? I don't think the areas you've highlighted are contradictory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 My problem is that this guy has gone through Shettleston during the day, obviously out in the midst of tanning salons and going into pubs. What he has written is based only on what he's seen. But, and this is the crux of what I've been saying all along, as a resident of the area, do you think the descriptions of the people he's met are accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamus Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 So the residents of Shettleston all walk about thinking they and their neighbours look fantastic? Look at the article as a whole Supras. The fact they 'don't look good' is political. Gill is saying that these people are among Labour's staunchest supporters and yet the party has turned its back on them, allowing the area, and it's people, to fall into disrepair. He does note that the people he encounters haven't helped themselves, which goes back to what I said about people having the choice not to become products of their environment, but he's laying the blame at the feet of those in power. I didn't say the people I've seen are the only inhabitants of Shettleston, but they do give a pretty good indication of those who live there, wouldn't you say. As I've already pointed out, Gill only scratches the surface of the populace, but does accurately describe those he meets. Thats some drive by assessment by Gill. Its your assessment and its not a drive by one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss..schlecht Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Not saying you're contradicting yourself Niz, just saying that to try and blame the government or Labour party for the failings of some people is pretty poor. Gill uses this line of thought for political point scoring. The other part is arguing against your stance that it portrays the people of the area. Yes, it does describe those he met but he tries to portay that as being indicative of the whole of the East End of Glasgow, when it obviously is untrue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 But, and this is the crux of what I've been saying all along, as a resident of the area, do you think the descriptions of the people he's met are accurate? I had a long reply typed out there, but Adam had to look something up and managed to delete everything I'd typed, and I can't be arsed doing it again. You'll have to make do the with short answer: no, I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I wonder that if Gill went to Tehran and said the people did "not look good" and compared them to cave dwellers there would be an international incident, even if the descriptions were accurate. Just because the incident is purley domestic does not make it any better or more valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seamus Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Everyone that lives in shettleston is like the people you see on the shettleston road at a precise time of the day PS the above is sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I wonder that if Gill went to Tehran and said the people did "not look good" and compared them to cave dwellers there would be an international incident, even if the descriptions were accurate. You're getting too hung up on the 'cave dwellers' comment. He's saying that the complexions of those he meets can be compared to those who live in deep, dark recesses with little access to sunlight. That's not abusive, that's evocative use of language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I had a long reply typed out there, but Adam had to look something up and managed to delete everything I'd typed, and I can't be arsed doing it again. You'll have to make do the with short answer: no, I don't. Aw c'mon LM, you live there and you're seriously trying to tell me you can't picture the kind of peole he describes when reading that article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 You're getting too hung up on the 'cave dwellers' comment. He's saying that the complexions of those he meets can be compared to those who live in deep, dark recesses with little access to sunlight. That's not abusive, that's evocative use of language. Right so he clearly meets these people on the street during the day, all the houses are above ground and have several windows. He is comparing these people to the numerous cave dwellers Gill has no doubt seen during his life time. He is also no doubt pointing out the small physical stature of many people from Glasgow by comparing them to cave dwellers. But like the rest of the article, I'm sure it is an attack on the Labour Party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Right so he clearly meets these people on the street during the day, all the houses are above ground and have several windows.He is comparing these people to the numerous cave dwellers Gill has no doubt seen during his life time. Look, let's put it simply. You just don't get it. He's saying that with the numerous taning salons in the area then you'd half expect the populace to have glowing tans, yet those he encounters have pasty complexions similar to that you'd expect people who have no access to sunlight, i.e. cave dwellers, to have. If you want to read a paper that puts everything into plain English then stick to reading The Sun. Don't read something by Gill, fail to understand it, and then accuse him of being abusive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Look, let's put it simply. You just don't get it. I think everyone gets the point of the article - to be controversial - but you who seems to think he is potraying a vivid image of life in Glasgow East Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I think everyone gets the point of the article - to be controversial - but you who seems to think he is potraying a vivid image of life in Glasgow East No, as I've said, and I'll keep saying until I'm blue in the face, I think he's painted an accurate and vivid picture of the people he encountered during his visit to Shettleston. You're failing to understand that, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 No, as I've said, and I'll keep saying until I'm blue in the face, I think he's painted an accurate and vivid picture of the people he encountered during his visit to Shettleston. You're failing to understand that, too. So you would say the people that you have seen, from your car, do not look good and you would compare them to cave dwellers. Your description would match that of AA Gill? Did you meet Mr. Gill in Shettleston recently? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa Cuddy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Aw c'mon LM, you live there and you're seriously trying to tell me you can't picture the kind of peole he describes when reading that article? That's not what you asked. Actually, I have to say, I couldn't answer the question you asked, because I've no idea who he met. I'll try and remember what I said before Adam arsed it up. I said that if you hang around in pubs during the day, of course the only people you'll meet are the out of work, retired, disabled, anyone that's not out earning a wage at that particular time of day. Straight away, your impression is "ok, this place is full of dregs, drains on society, every one". However, if he's spent anytime out on the street, which is what he appears to be saying he's done, he should have seen what I see every time I step out of my front door. Older folk, out doing their shopping, polite, happy folk, thriving local businesses (not half as many fucking tanning salons as he's making out) - I've never received anything other than friendly service in any shop I've been to in Shettleston. Of course Shettleston has neds - what area doesn't? However, you don't see too many of them around during the day, mainly early evening. Perhaps they all actually go to school or some of the older ones go to work, you never know. I can only apologise that he thinks we're all munters (which to me, stating that we look like melted candles suggests). I didn't think we were that bad. I shall leaflet the area and ask people to improve their appearance. I'd also like the know what the f**k clouds hanging at head height has to do with anything. Is that our fault as well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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