Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Frankly I don't care or notice what they look like. So, in God's name, why do you keep making reference to the part of the article that describes their features?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xbl Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I do not think the introduction of hard drugs (the main reason in the drop of life expectancy) can be blamed on the labour party. Overall living standards and household income has improved. It has? And as an alleged 16 (or something around then) year old, how do you know this? The Gray Ghost isnt saying you are wrong, but he would be interested to know if you could back that up. Anyway, its not just over the last decade. He made the point that it was a Labour heartland, and had been for many years. And Labour hasn't looked after its loyal voters. Well I see people in Glasgow I do not think, those people do not look good, and I don't compare them to cave dwellers. Frankly I don't care or notice what they look like. It isn't just Glasgow y'know. The Gray Ghost sometimes takes friends up to Arbroath for the football. One or two of them now rather unkindly refer to it as hobbitland, in a comment about the average height of the populance. Do you not recognise some of the people in the article? Do you disagree with the stats he quotes? You are also cherry picking that article to find bits to offend you! He doesnt compare them to cave dwellers, as others have already explained to you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 No, the reason I'm not answering the questions is because, quite frankly, they're ridiculous and have to relevance to the debate. Right, you visit friends in Shettleston. You agree with the writers description of people living in Shettleston. Do you think your friends fit the description in the article? It's a simple yes or no answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I do not think the introduction of hard drugs (the main reason in the drop of life expectancy)...Overall living standards and household income has improved. I suppose you have the stats to back up these assertions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest The Phoenix Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I worked in the East End of Glasgow for several years - many moons ago. I also had the pleasure of visiting our customers in their own homes - Ram Street Shettleston was my favourite (knocked down now I think?) There were only about 60 tenement flats in total but I could spend a whole week there. I don't think anyone in the street worked. Most of the folk were the salt of the earth but I'll never forget one guy who threatened me with a kitchen knife because I dared to suggest to his son that he might want to a least make a semblance of effort to find a job. I quickly pointed out that I personally couldn't give two monkey's snuffs whether his son never got a job. I didn't keep a track on him but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't - there were many kids in the East End who were brought up in a culture that benefit was a way of life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Right, you visit friends in Shettleston. You agree with the writers description of people living in Shettleston. Do you think your friends fit the description in the article? It's a simple yes or no answer. How many times do I have to say it? I think the writer's descriptions of the people he met are evocative and instantly put me in mind of people I've encountered in Shettleston. I don't think they describe the populace as a whole, but I think it's a pretty accurate snapshot of the area and the kind of characters you're likely to encounter there. Do you comprehend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 To use the inverse, are you suggesting its got better? Just off the top of The Gray Ghosts head, life expectancy of men in Shettleston has dropped in the last ten years. Thats not suggesting an improvement to The Gray Ghost. And The Gray Ghost changes text style because The Gray Ghost does. As Nizzy said, you would be blind if you didnt see the sort of people that are talked about in the article. Its not just Glasgow east either. I think that life expectancy fell in Shettleson during that period, about the only place in the UK that has seen a fall since the 1940s. Really, something needs to be done to stop the welfare trap of dependancy and poverty that affects large numbers of people in inner city Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, or wherever. We need to incentivise work over welfare in a real sense. I don't think that anyone will do it, though the Conservatives are at least talking the right game. Previous Grauniad article - not just professional snobs like AA Gill who write these sorts of articles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 So, in God's name, why do you keep making reference to the part of the article that describes their features?! I'm merely questioning what relevance it has. It's fits with my conclusion that the article is trying to be controversial, and that the author is just being spiteful. It has? And as an alleged 16 (or something around then) year old, how do you know this? The Gray Ghost isnt saying you are wrong, but he would be interested to know if you could back that up. Anyway, its not just over the last decade. He made the point that it was a Labour heartland, and had been for many years. And Labour hasn't looked after its loyal voters. It isn't just Glasgow y'know. The Gray Ghost sometimes takes friends up to Arbroath for the football. One or two of them now rather unkindly refer to it as hobbitland, in a comment about the average height of the populance. Do you not recognise some of the people in the article? Do you disagree with the stats he quotes? You are also cherry picking that article to find bits to offend you! He doesnt compare them to cave dwellers, as others have already explained to you! It was a labour heartland, are you suggesting that because of this is it somehow should have benefited from the labour party being in power? It is treated the same as constituencies that are not controlled by labour, or at least that's how it should be. Actually he does compare the to cave dwellers. A lot of people from Scotland are small, including those from the East of Scotland, as you pointed out. So, why is the writer saying that the people in Shettleston are particularly bad looking and small in stature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I'm merely questioning what relevance it has.It's fits with my conclusion that the article is trying to be controversial, and that the author is just being spiteful. It's relevant because he's painting a picture of those he encountered on his visit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 A lot of people from Scotland are small, including those from the East of Scotland, as you pointed out. So, why is the writer saying that the people in Shettleston are particularly bad looking and small in stature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Overall living standards and household income has improved. I think that life expectancy fell in Shettleson during that period, about the only place in the UK that has seen a fall since the 1940s. It was a labour heartland, are you suggesting that because of this is it somehow should have benefited from the labour party being in power? It is treated the same as constituencies that are not controlled by labour, or at least that's how it should be. Clicky Glasgow East is by any standards a deprived constituency that doesn’t seem to have benefited from generations of Labour representation. The residents of Glasgow east are precisely the people that Labour claim to represent and support. Is it wrong to think they should have been the people to prosper under a Labour government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 How many times do I have to say it? I think the writer's descriptions of the people he met are evocative and instantly put me in mind of people I've encountered in Shettleston. I don't think they describe the populace as a whole, but I think it's a pretty accurate snapshot of the area and the kind of characters you're likely to encounter there. Do you comprehend? No, I have been to Shettleston, the people are nothing like Mr. Gills description. His description mainly serves the purpose of insulting the people from that area. How can an umbrella statement like "the people here do not look good" be anything but a spiteful comment. It doesn't offer any description at all. I think that life expectancy fell in Shettleson during that period, about the only place in the UK that has seen a fall since the 1940s.Really, something needs to be done to stop the welfare trap of dependancy and poverty that affects large numbers of people in inner city Glasgow, Edinburgh, Dundee, or wherever. We need to incentivise work over welfare in a real sense. I don't think that anyone will do it, though the Conservatives are at least talking the right game. Previous Grauniad article - not just professional snobs like AA Gill who write these sorts of articles I'm fairly certain the conservatives will not win the Glasgow East seat. It's relevant because he's painting a picture of those he encountered on his visit. No he's insulting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 ClickyThe residents of Glasgow east are precisely the people that Labour claim to represent and support. Is it wrong to think they should have been the people to prosper under a Labour government? Yes, the Labour governmant shouldn't only reward the constituents that vote for them, they should represent the needs of every constituency, Labour or otherwise, equally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Yes, the Labour governmant shouldn't only reward the constituents that vote for them, they should represent the needs of every constituency, Labour or otherwise, equally. But you don't deny they've failed the people of Glasgow east? And what about the Labour MPs and councillors who've run Shettleston for God know's how many years? other constituancies aren't their concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 No, I have been to Shettleston, the people are nothing like Mr. Gills description. There are people who live in Shettleston who look exactly like those Gill has described. To say otherwise is a mistruth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nizzy Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 How can an umbrella statement like "the people here do not look good" be anything but a spiteful comment. It doesn't offer any description at all. There's plenty of descriptive language in the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnstoun Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Just off the top of The Gray Ghosts head, life expectancy of men in Shettleston has dropped in the last ten years... Its not just Glasgow east either. Damn straight, mine has dropped by 10 years as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 There are people who live in Shettleston who look exactly like those Gill has described. To say otherwise is a mistruth. There are people who look like that in every city in the UK. To say otherwise is a mistruth There's plenty of descriptive language in the article. Does "the people do not look good" come under this category? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 ClickyThe residents of Glasgow east are precisely the people that Labour claim to represent and support. Is it wrong to think they should have been the people to prosper under a Labour government? If Gordon Brown was a poster on here (I am still suspicious that he is Reynard) he'd argue that this government has been responible for a huge transfer of wealth through the taxation and welfare from the richer to the poorer in our society - he would be right as well, this government has put billions, trillions if you believe some commentators, into the NHS, welfare, education etc. The issue is that this injection of funds has not had the desired effect. Britain has also had over a decade of economic growth - ingrained poverty has shown itself to be immune to normal economic factors for taking people out of poverty. A new approachis needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supras Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 But you don't deny they've failed the people of Glasgow east? And what about the Labour MPs and councillors who've run Shettleston for God know's how many years? other constituancies aren't their concern. Define "fail" I'm not sure that the MPs and councillors have failed either, as I do not know their objectives. One thing is for certain, the Labour party has not failed it's "voters" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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