Savage Henry Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 3 minutes ago, Dunning1874 said: All set up for a 5th placed finish in a tournament that should have delivered second at worst, then. I assume the players get bonuses based on the finishing position in the table. Either way though, the team is going nowhere. Should be pushing for four wins. Lucky to get two. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GAD Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 7 minutes ago, Savage Henry said: I assume the players get bonuses based on the finishing position in the table. Either way though, the team is going nowhere. Should be pushing for four wins. Lucky to get two. I wouldn't say they were lucky to get two, that's harsh. They deserved to beat England. The Wales game was weird, but they deserved to win it, everyone got a bit caught up in it at the time, but looking back, the second half was spectacularly badly refereed, and even then they found a way to control the last 10 minutes quite comfortably in the end. They also deserved to beat France, I mean, they basically did beat France in the eyes of everyone except an Irish TMO. Even yesterday, yeah, it was shite, but if they'd won there would have been few complaints. Don't get me wrong, it's a disappointing campaign, and the inevitable capitulation to Ireland is going to make it worse, but to say we are lucky to even win 2 games isn't fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binos Posted March 10 Share Posted March 10 (edited) Toonies 6N record 3, 5, 4, 4, 4, 3, this year ... Laughable Also, a golden generation? Either, there wasn't one, or it's been butchered Edited March 10 by Binos 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHF-23 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 On 09/03/2024 at 18:57, Dunning1874 said: Funny as it is, that just makes Townsend's latest abject failure even more abject. Not that he's actually going to pull off a win in Dublin anyway, but what an absolute disaster he has presided over. Two utterly humiliating World Cups, threw away the 2021 Six Nations when every other side's results aligned perfectly to give Scotland the best chance we've had to win it in the Six Nations era, has bottled it against Italy once again here when another great opportunity has presented itself, has never managed more than 3 wins in a tournament with a better group of players than any Scotland coach since he retired from playing could have dreamed of. It's hard man, there's been a few moments, a few games in the years building up to the '23 World Cup where I thought there might be something good to the Townsend project. Win %'s, "landmark" away wins (sometimes in front of no crowd), fixing the defence (temporarily), there were some signs of progress there as long as you take out the context of having the best team Scotland has had in a long time, a squad of players that with a few exceptions has gotten progressively better in the time he has been coach. Like you, I look back at the 2021 championship as one we absolutely should have won, and a better coach would have done so. With the benefit of hindsight, is there an argument that Townsend underperformed with Glasgow? Yes, he won the only major honour that a Scottish team has won in decades, but they were not a group of no-hopers when he arrived and the ability to choke in big games which persists with his national team could, if you were inclined to be uncharitable, be traced back to this period both for him and some of the players. I think there were some lessons in the game which followed ours on Saturday about the reasons we are so far off it. England might be a team everyone gets a great laugh at on here but Borthwick has been in place for just over a year. In that time he's taken a team in freefall to within minutes of a WC final (generous draw or not) and has now begun to initiate what will, with practice, I'm sure be a highly successful strategy for England with the Felix Jones defensive system and the way they are pursuing their kick-chase game, and making selections around that. That's a proven winning strategy, and I'd be quietly confident that by the time we get to the next WC there will be at least one more 6N title in the Twickenham cabinet and they'll be genuine contenders for the WC. Do we think it's acceptable that a relatively inexperienced head coach seems so much more capable of delivering rapid changes in group atmosphere and mindset than our coach, who has been a head coach since 2012? Do we think such an idea of identity or defined way of winning exists within this Scotland coaching group? I don't really think so, since "the fastest rugby in the world" got chucked in the bin a year out from a World Cup it's certainly hard to identify. I always remember Eddie Jones (p***k)'s comments, I think after 2019, when he was talking about how Scotland should try to adopt something similar to that period's Japan if we were serious about playing running rugby. I always thought that seemed a very interesting and common sense approach. Instead the approach seems to have been, what if running rugby but also cautious? I don't know. The comment about selection above also relates to Ireland. I don't think he had his best game but I often look at Hugo Keenan (and at Steward, or previously Liam Williams) and think that Stuart Hogg coming through at the time he did has made a lot of Scottish fans forget what a fullback is meant to be primarily doing. Ireland have had a period of great success when, looking at their back 3 options, they've abandoned the likes of Larmour or Stockdale because great exciting players they might be, but they are not trustworthy. It's a hard one as he's so young, but that's the type of player I saw in Harry Patterson against France. Caught out for the Baille-Barrey try but other than that extremely solid. Kinghorn is not trustworthy, as he showed throughout the game and in the crucial final play when once again the ball went to deck because of his impatience. And I think that applies to a few players in both forwards and backs who might be the most talented but perhaps not the most trustworthy players in their positions. There is the obvious caveat that while our pool is better, it is still not at the same level as England or Ireland. TL:DR - in spite of abandoning those initial principles of Townsend's early tenure and employing a very stern bald man to run a better defence, Scotland are not really a serious side. The coaching staff have failed to inculcate any sort of winning mentality, rather than build on the principles of how Townsend thought a modern rugby team could play we've abandoned that identity to endlessly triangulate in a way that often makes us look clueless, and we continue to pick players as first choices that serious International sides would look at and think "show pony" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Having not watched the game back yet, but picking Horne was the biggest issue for me. With Ben White all the box kicks were contestable and put the opposition under pressure, which resulted mainly in the catcher being tackled, slow ball, and then the opposition kicking back to us, and slow pick and go's. Nearly every one of Hornes were far to long, which let Italy run back at us, and let them get front foot ball. It improved when Price came on, but what has happened to him he looked knackered with 10 minutes to go, so much for loaning him to Edinburgh to get games under his belt, keep him match sharp. For me Horne only works coming off the bench against tiring players, but doesnt control games like White or Price, or have the service those 2 do. Also our discipline is shocking compared to the other teams, Wales are dreadful this year, but have kept themselves in games because they havent given away a raft of penalties as soon as they under pressure, (or even when they are now) We've given away 44 penalties and 3 yellows over 4 games which is not good enough and only Ireland, suprisingly are worse. France, England and Wales are all around the 30 mark which is where we should be aiming. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GHF-23 Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 2 minutes ago, honestly united said: Also our discipline is shocking compared to the other teams, Wales are dreadful this year, but have kept themselves in games because they havent given away a raft of penalties as soon as they under pressure, (or even when they are now) We've given away 44 penalties and 3 yellows over 4 games which is not good enough and only Ireland, suprisingly are worse. France, England and Wales are all around the 30 mark which is where we should be aiming. Again, this has been a problem for a long time that a serious team with a serious coach would have made proper and lasting progress in. Sometimes when we get especially egregious there's a big reaction for a game or two but before you know it we're back to being extremely ill-disciplined. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictorOnopko Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 Townsend's talent is clearly as attack coach - he has undoubtedly transformed Scotland into a potent attacking team. Trouble is they are still soft as shite overall, easily intimidated, lose concerntration for half an hour at a time, and always immediately fold under pressure. We need a scary ruthless character ideally as head coach or at least as the forwards coach. The second half at the weekend there was headless chickens stuff - no leadership on or off the field. It doesn't look to me like they believe they are winners (except for Russell, but he's not capable of instilling discipline across the team when they need it). There is still a triple crown on offer next weekend but I can't see any reason why this team will get any more against Ireland than they did in the disgraceful no-show in the WC - we'll lose by 20+. This really is a waste of a great generation of players. They haven't even managed 2nd in the 6N under GT never mind coming close to winning it, partly because Ireland know how to nullify us and we don't have any surprises to spring. The only thing which will cheer me up slightly is if Italy beat Wales next week so the Welsh end up 0-5. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted March 11 Share Posted March 11 When they get it right, Scotland are probably the best team in the 6 Nations to watch. VDM’s third try vs England was one which no other team would be able to score. Even now, you’d say Scotland’s first choice XV is the second best in the tournament. I’ve said it before: for those not old enough to remember Toony the player, this team is exactly as he was as a player - either unplayable good or unplayably bad and little in between. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 team for sat 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 14 minutes ago, ajwffc said: team for sat Interested to see how McDowall does, im not sure if he's just a really good club player or international class. He's been in and around the squad for years without ever doing getting a chance so hopefully he can do a number on Aki. If we keep him quiet it stops Ireland getting front foot ball in the backs 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Connolly Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 I hadn’t realised McDowell was 26, always think of him as an Eoin Jess-style youngster coming through. He has been excellent for Glasgow over the last 18 months or so though, hopefully he can do the business 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 On 11/03/2024 at 18:45, Savage Henry said: When they get it right, Scotland are probably the best team in the 6 Nations to watch. VDM’s third try vs England was one which no other team would be able to score. Even now, you’d say Scotland’s first choice XV is the second best in the tournament. I’ve said it before: for those not old enough to remember Toony the player, this team is exactly as he was as a player - either unplayable good or unplayably bad and little in between. Which keeps things interesting at least 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted March 14 Share Posted March 14 2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said: I hadn’t realised McDowell was 26, always think of him as an Eoin Jess-style youngster coming through. He has been excellent for Glasgow over the last 18 months or so though, hopefully he can do the business Heard on Sportsound he’s signing for Rangers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Our Irish hosts. Very good team on paper but so are we. On the other hand Ireland play for 80 minutes, have excellent discipline and Andy Farrell doesn't just talk about learnings after a defeat. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 Scotland's summer tour confirmed. Perfect tour for an experimental squad being led by a fresh coaching perspective. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
honestly united Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 9 minutes ago, come on shire said: Our Irish hosts. Very good team on paper but so are we. On the other hand Ireland play for 80 minutes, have excellent discipline and Andy Farrell doesn't just talk about learnings after a defeat. Is that the same team that started last week for Ireland? 6 minutes ago, come on shire said: Scotland's summer tour confirmed. Perfect tour for an experimental squad being led by a fresh coaching perspective. Its funny that the US/Canada are now minows / non WC teams of the tour compared to how it would have been viewed a few years. US & Canada have really dropped back to where they were. I think US is more of a blip given the new league etc and they now have a good range of players playing professionally, but Canada are a mess, they are that bad that they could take tips from Scotland on how to develop players 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
come on shire Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 1 hour ago, honestly united said: Is that the same team that started last week for Ireland? Its funny that the US/Canada are now minows / non WC teams of the tour compared to how it would have been viewed a few years. US & Canada have really dropped back to where they were. I think US is more of a blip given the new league etc and they now have a good range of players playing professionally, but Canada are a mess, they are that bad that they could take tips from Scotland on how to develop players I'm not sure. It can't be too far off it. However I notice one absentee for Ireland is Mack Hansen... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajwffc Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 It's good that we are probably the Tier 1 side that plays Tire 2/3 the most. But it doesn't help our world ranking for the next World cup 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted March 15 Share Posted March 15 2 hours ago, ajwffc said: It's good that we are probably the Tier 1 side that plays Tire 2/3 the most. But it doesn't help our world ranking for the next World cup Certainly not if the reserve team we inevitably send loses one of the games. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted March 16 Share Posted March 16 Wales doing that really weird kick to Italy’s strongest high ball guy tactic. Awful stuff. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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