Israel And The Palestinians (now with added Iran/Lebanon)

[adam4267]

Under a mixture of Zionist propaganda and Christian guilt Britain decided create a brand new Jewish state right in the middle of Palestine in the early 20th century.

The Palestinians resisted it from day one , Britain decided to split palestine into 2 states ever since then Israel has illegally taken more and more Palestinian land via its illegal settlements until the current fragmented remains of Palestine ,the West Bank and Gaza .

Which all in all results in the perfect breading ground for sectarian hatered , with some Palestinians and wider Muslim world sworn to wipe Israel off the Map, and some Israelis and wider Christian backed western Governments sworn to protect it.

IMO .Israel which pretends to be a western like civilised democracy is now in fact a right wing racist apartheid state, a sentiment that even the South African government holds.

Due to their descrimitory immigration policy , where People from Muslim countries are virtually banned from entering it , but if you are Jewish you are gaurenteed citizenship.

The Government is sworn to keep it a Jewish majority and run state.

What a load of nonsense.

[Ad Lib]

Excellent article from Peter Singer:

www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/peter-singer-asks-whether-israel-is-doing-enough-to-spare-palestinian-civilians

[Fotbawmad]

Jews control the media. Where have I heard that one before

You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. For example Rupert Murdoch isn't a Jew, but he's one of the biggest Zionist's out there.

Edited August 7, 2014 by Fotbawmad

[adam4267]

You don't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist. For example Rupert Murdoch isn't a Jew, but he's one of the biggest Zionist's out there.

Does he own the Yorkshire Post aye?

[Fotbawmad]

Does he own the Yorkshire Post aye?

We're talking about national media here.

[parsforlife]

But when terms like "zionist" start coming out the wood work, then you have to be very careful with what you are saying. Zionist has been used as a synonym for Jew for nearly 100 years. When people start obsessing with Israeli action and almost ignoring everything else in the world then alarms start ringing.

While Israeli nationalists do exploit the antisemetic card it is a real thing. Its a little too easy for people to turn that into some kind of ultra enthusiastic "everything Israel does is wrong" or "I hate zionists".

I find saying Zionism is a synonym for Jew to be a little bit silly. Judaism is separate from zionism. You can be one without being the other, similarly you can disagree with one and not the other.

There is a deliberate ploy from zionists and anti-Semites to blur the lines. Zionists( and supporters of Israel gov(again separate things) )are to ready to label people anti-Semites, whilst anti-Semites are desperate to remove that label and call themselves anti-zionists instead . But we should ignore this blurring of the lines and recognise them as different.

I'll be open here, Zionism was a bad idea badly executed. The idea of a one religion state makes me rather uncomfortable.

That however doesn't mean a sensible solution would involve the destruction of Israel, ideally we would have a 2 state solution with Israel borders being similar to 1948. This state won't spend it's time expanding into and blowing the crap out of the palestiline state, it would spend the funds currently being used for such means supporting further improve its iron done defence to protect its own citizens and humaritarian support to Palestine to help protect it(and by nature themselves) from extremist Islamists, it would allow the palestiline state to trade freely. No blockades, no worlds largest prison, a healthy functioning state.

This Palestine state would of course preferably be run as a true democracy and not fire rockets into Israel, it must however be recognised that this would be a harder job, clearing the anger and bitterness from a nation that's felt persecuted for 60 years isn't easy. My anger, and those of others I'm sure isn't just because Israel Is behaving deplorably, it's because it is the nation(or side) best placed for peace, but it's behaving in the opposite way.

Excellent article from Peter Singer:

www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/peter-singer-asks-whether-israel-is-doing-enough-to-spare-palestinian-civilians

Agreed, a good article.

[adam4267]

I find saying Zionism is a synonym for Jew to be a little bit silly. Judaism is separate from zionism. You can be one without being the other, similarly you can disagree with one and not the other.

There is a deliberate ploy from zionists and anti-Semites to blur the lines. Zionists( and supporters of Israel gov(again separate things) )are to ready to label people anti-Semites, whilst anti-Semites are desperate to remove that label and call themselves anti-zionists instead . But we should ignore this blurring of the lines and recognise them as different.

I'll be open here, Zionism was a bad idea badly executed. The idea of a one religion state makes me rather uncomfortable.

That however doesn't mean a sensible solution would involve the destruction of Israel, ideally we would have a 2 state solution with Israel borders being similar to 1948. This state won't spend it's time expanding into and blowing the crap out of the palestiline state, it would spend the funds currently being used for such means supporting further improve its iron done defence to protect its own citizens and humaritarian support to Palestine to help protect it(and by nature themselves) from extremist Islamists, it would allow the palestiline state to trade freely. No blockades, no worlds largest prison, a healthy functioning state.

This Palestine state would of course preferably be run as a true democracy and not fire rockets into Israel, it must however be recognised that this would be a harder job, clearing the anger and bitterness from a nation that's felt persecuted for 60 years isn't easy. My anger, and those of others I'm sure isn't just because Israel Is behaving deplorably, it's because it is the nation(or side) best placed for peace, but it's behaving in the opposite way.

Zionism is not a synonym for Judaism. A zionist is a person who believes the Jewish people have the right to their own homeland. If someone is anti-Zionist it means they believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist as a nation for the Jewish people. I think that's anti-semitic. Someone who is anti-Israel may hate Israel or disagree with its policies in some way but not that doesn't mean they hate Jewish people.

[lodmoorhill]

no suprise to see a zionist apologist on the sidelines desperate to brand someone anti semetic for condeming Israels slaughter and blockade.

I condemn the Israeli government for the killing of civilians, just as I condemn the Gaza government for the killing of civilians.

However, it's not Israel's blockade.

It's Egypt and Israel's blockade.

In fact, not only do Egypt enforce the blockade, they've been known to gas or flood the tunnels. They are also building the wall underground to prevent the tunnels being built, which of course causes the existing tunnels to collapse on their occupants, which I imagine is a bit of downer if you've already survived gassing and drowning.

Condemning only Israel for the blockade, instead of Israel and Egypt; or condemning only Israel for killing civilians instead of Israel and Gaza does come across as anti semetic. Why not condemn the governments of America or France which are providing technical support on building the Egyptian blockade? Or why not condemn the Greek government for preventing an aid flotilla sailing to Gaza a couple of years ago? Or the British arms industry for supplying arms to the Israeli government? Or the Iranian government for supplying arms to the Gaza government?

There's plenty of blame for all parties in this current debacle, and it does no good to lay it all on the doorstep of one government. No side can win a moral argument on the basis they have murdered less innocent civilians than the other.

Let's hope that the latest round of talks makes all those involved look at their culpability and saves innocent lives on all sides.

[lodmoorhill]

TBF, he made a 90 minute speech. Where much of what he said was indisputable. It's no surprise the Zionist controlled media jumped onto that particular part in an attempt to paint him in a bad light. Here's the original speech...

Whenever I watch or read any of George's grandiose, self promoting, publicity seeking outbursts, the term Narcissistic Personality Disorder springs to my mind.

• Expects to be recognized as superior and special, without superior accomplishments
• Expects constant attention, admiration and positive reinforcement from others
• Envies others and believes others envy him/her
• Is preoccupied with thoughts and fantasies of great success, enormous attractiveness, power, intelligence
• Lacks the ability to empathize with the feelings or desires of others
• Is arrogant in attitudes and behavior
• Has expectations of special treatment that are unrealistic

I don't think the media portray him in a particularly bad light. I think he manages just fine on his own.

[jock001]

So if a Russian billionaire was to buy out your team, would you stop supporting them?

That's a very good question. I have no emotional ties to soda stream or coca cola but I do to rangers.

I'd certainly protest it.

[jock001]

if he wants israelis banned from the UK then yes....does that help you?

If?

You mean before supporting his words you didn't bother to find out what they were?

[THE KING]

Let me explain things for folk who are struggling. Israel is a state. Just like America, Australia, Argentina and a great many more they became a state by taking land of people who lived there before. This was wrong but how long ago does a wrong have to be to justify a reaction today: Before anyone answers that question you may want to check modern history. It is much dirtier than you may think.

Now opposing Israeli occupation of the post 48 borders is fine. Opposing Israeli inhuman actions against the occupants of those borders is also fine. But when terms like "zionist" start coming out the wood work, then you have to be very careful with what you are saying. Zionist has been used as a synonym for Jew for nearly 100 years. When people start obsessing with Israeli action and almost ignoring everything else in the world then alarms start ringing.

While Israeli nationalists do exploit the antisemetic card it is a real thing. Its a little too easy for people to turn that into some kind of ultra enthusiastic "everything Israel does is wrong" or "I hate zionists".

Disliking a states actions does not mean you should be able to deny that states right to exist nor to use it as a means for a wider agenda. We live in a complex world where few can point fingers about "owning land". Stick to caring about human rights and make sure your definition of human does not end at the occupied territories and you'll be fine.

Obsess about one state and its inhabitants and your motive will be under scrutiny.

no one is obsessing about 1 state the thread is called israel v palestine?

There are dozens of threads about Iraq, Ukraine, Libya, ISIS, Egypt etc etc but the anti (insert religion) doesnt appear there?

So why do some use it as a defence the moment Israels policies are questioned?

And unlike the other mentioned colonised states, Israel is a purpose built state created for a religous ideal Inside another..country.

Thats what makes it non comparable to other states.

And im not aware of any other mentioned countries banning immigrants from Arab countries, Like Israel does?

Or constantly stealing its neighbours land via illegal settlements , like israel does?

Or has 2 million natives imprisoned in their on country by blockade of borders, air, coast, trade..like israel?

I have repeatedly said on this thread that Hamas are scum and terrorists and that Israel is worse due to the civilian deaths, and I will continue to condemn both sides without worring about being branded anti semetic.

[THE KING]

What a load of nonsense.

lets here your version then .

[welshbairn]

Zionism is not a synonym for Judaism. A zionist is a person who believes the Jewish people have the right to their own homeland. If someone is anti-Zionist it means they believe Israel doesn't have a right to exist as a nation for the Jewish people. I think that's anti-semitic. Someone who is anti-Israel may hate Israel or disagree with its policies in some way but not that doesn't mean they hate Jewish people.

The land the Israeli nation sits on was a home for Palestinians until it was ethnically cleansed in 1948, creating a Jewish majority. I don't think it's anti semitic to say they had no moral right to do that. They now control the prison camp of Gaza and the West Bank, where only Jewish settlers get to vote for the Israeli government. I don't think saying that is wrong is anti-semitic either.

[THE KING]

The land the Israeli nation sits on was a home for Palestinians uHolocaustit was ethnically cleansed in 1948, creating a Jewish majority. I don't think it's anti semitic to say they had no moral right to do that. They now control the prison camp of Gaza and the West Bank, where only Jewish settlers get to vote for the Israeli government. I don't think saying that is wrong is anti-semitic either.

Spot on, but you forget Zionist apologists like adam deny ethnic cleansing happened, they refuse to belive that months after the Holocaust Jews were ethnically cleansing arabs out of their land He belives the Israeli propaganda that a million palestinians left of their own free will?!!

[H_B]

have repeatedly said on this thread that Hamas are scum and terrorists and that Israel is worse due to the civilian deaths, .

So Hamas don't kill civilians ?

[jock001]

Not as many and they usually admit it when they do.

[Silvio Tattiescone]

Not as many and they usually celebrate when they do.

FTFY

[THE KING]

So Hamas don't kill civilians ?

yes thats why I called them terrorists?

[AberdeenBud]

no one is obsessing about 1 state the thread is called israel v palestine?

At least 90% of your posts on this site concern "the Jews" or "the Zionists".

The blatant bigotry that got your Captain Kirk alias banned being a particular highlight.