stanley

Do you only compare the top team in a league if comparing the league as a whole? I don't think St Cuthbert Wanderers losing 3-1 and 7-0 in the playoffs shows that there's a small gap between the SoS and WoS. With Threave leaving the SoS, do we ignore the quality of all other teams in the league and their losses against some of the weakest teams in the WoS conferences? If you're going to argue that the SoS should be at tier 6 then trying to do it on the basis of the quality of the teams in the league is a strange argument.

The gap between the SoS and the WoS is clearly massive. 1 win in 11 matches for SoS sides v others in the South Challenge Cup last season and that was against Bonnyton who were in the SoS not too long ago and were clearly playing miles above their level in the WoS Premier. The results suggest that only the top two are anywhere near competing with the WoS sides above third division level and one of them has already left the SoS. The SoS has a place in the pyramid but there's absolutely no chance it's at tier 6 in its current form. Right now, it's probably of third/fourth division in the WoS level (even then, below the top two, not one of the SoS teams was able to beat even the weakest WoS teams). It certainly isn't a perfectly functioning pyramid. If any logic was used in drawing up the pyramid, you wouldn't be putting a Dumfries & Galloway league anywhere above a regional division towards the bottom of the current structure. It's a quirk of history that it happened to have a senior league. We could just as easily be discussing a borders league being at tier 6 had the league structures worked out differently over the years. Bonnyton Thistle 1 -3 St. Cuthbert Wanderers (12 points in 38 games in premier) Linlithgow Rose 3 - 2 St. Cuthbert Wanderers (very good result against a strong EoS team) Lochar Thistle 2 - 5 Threave Rovers (both SoS teams) Threave Rovers 1 - 3 Civil Service Strollers (decent result against a decent Lowland League team) Abbey Vale 3 - 4 Newmains United (14th/15 in conference) East Kilbride Thistle 4 - 2 Newton Stewart (11th/15 in conference) Lesmahagow 6 - 3 (AET) Creetown (13th/16 in conference) Upper Annandale 0 - 4 Lesmahagow (13th/16 in conference) Nithsdale Wanders 2 - 7 Hurlford United (WoS premier) Cambuslang Rangers 7 - 0 Lochmaben (conference winners) Troon 13 - 0 Mid-Annandale (WoS premier) Lugar Boswell Thistle 6 - 2 Wigtown & Bladnoch (14th/16 in conference)

Even if Dalbeattie and Gretna drop into the SoS and the WoS/EoS lose some of their stronger members to the Lowland League over the next few years, there's still going to be a significant gap in standard between the two leagues. A gap which will never close because of the very limited population covered by the SoS. If, as expected, Threave are accepted into the WoS then the boundaries discussion becomes very relevant as you might well see the likes of Gretna and Dalbeattie choose a different league if/when they are relegated. That would weaken the prospects of the SoS even further and losing Threave is a huge blow already.

I think you're overestimating how much stronger it will become. There are only five teams even in the SoS catchment area in the above leagues: Queen of the South (unlikely to get anywhere near the SoS over the next few years), Stranraer, Annan, Dalbeattie and Gretna. Given that Threave look set to be accepted into the WoS, it is far from certain that those clubs even drop into the SoS. There's no Dumfries & Galloway amateur league below and basically almost no source of new clubs. If you were to create a pyramid from scratch now, there is absolutely no chance a Dumfries and Galloway League would be near step 6 of the pyramid. They shouldn't remain there indefinitely for historical reasons. If the Lowland League was ever to open up to three relegation spots (which, IMO, it should have), it would be a big barrier if the SoS had one team go up automatically each season.

I thought the Ferry one-to-one interviews were excellent. Watched several over the years as they had many ex-Hearts players. He had a slightly irritating style but the interviews were great IMO. I stopped watching as soon as they started involving the other guys. Can't even make it through a minute of the "banter".

When was the last time the league had as many as 13 teams? Nice to see the league doing so well having been down to just six clubs a few years ago.

Auchinleck Talbot Benburb Bonnyton Thistle Clydebank Cumnock Darvel Girvan Glasgow University Irvine Meadow Kilwinning Rangers Rutherglen Glencairn Threave Rovers Pollok expected to join them but not announced yet.

Still waiting for Lochee, St. Andrews and Pollok?

Agreed. It will be very interesting if one or two other clubs (like St. Cuthbert Wanderers) follow. That would probably force the hand of those in charge. I think the league should merge with the WoS and they could have a division four north and south in the bottom tier. I would be very surprised if any of the remaining clubs in the league have any ambitions to play in the Lowland League. They also have no source of new clubs except, perhaps, some old clubs reforming or youth clubs forming an adult team. They're down to just ten first teams left in the league. With Threave being accepted into the WoS (we assume) then surely Dalbeattie and Gretna have a very strong case for dropping to the WoS if they get relegated from the Lowland League (assuming that's where they want to go). I don't see how it would work to drop the league to tier 7 instead of tier 6. Promoting their clubs into the WoS Premier? I don't think that is a viable solution at all. Having the league remain at tier 6 is likely to cause problems for the playoffs as if/when the Lowland League finally opens up relegation a bit more.

True although would require some of the North/Midlands sides to resign from the SJFA or it would be a NCL-only competition.

Well done, City. Great to see an Edinburgh team getting promoted. Well deserved after the past few years.

I honestly don't think any of the SoS clubs (including Threave Rovers) have any ambitions of playing in the Lowland League. I think it's very unlikely they'll be able to win the promotion playoffs but, even if they could, I just don't see them being keen to move up. Perhaps Threave have decided to go for a new challenge. I can see why they might want to move. The SoS is a small league including two reserve teams and there are no amateur leagues left in Dumfries & Galloway so little potential for new clubs. The only possible clubs are ones being relegated into the league (Gretna and Dalbeattie) and, if Threave are accepted into the WoS, you have to wonder if Gretna and Dalbeattie would get to choose to go to either the WoS or SoS rather than automatically being placed in the SoS. Threave leaving would certainly weaken the league.

Sooner they go bust, the better.

Glad to hear it. We're not in the group stages next season but wasn't great being in the northern section and playing the same teams regularly. In just five seasons we've played East Fife, Cowdenbeath and ICT three times and Peterhead, Cove Rangers and Raith twice.

What a shambles. If they have accepted the Old Firm then they can't really reject Hearts. They should have rejected them all from the start. What happens when Hibs and others start applying too? It's quite sad how this has all turned out. A couple of huge decisions have gone the wrong way (increasing relegation places and having B teams in the league). To think that we could be looking forward to next season with two up/two down but instead there will be two or three colt teams and, once again, the possibility for 0 teams to be relegated. With Elgin City as perennial strugglers, it might not be too long until we end up with no relegation in a season for the Lowland League again.

Threave moving to the WoS might force them to start thinking about the best set up for the pyramid. I don't think the SoS will still be tier 6 in a few years time. Also, if Threave are accepted then presumably Gretna would have a choice about going to the WoS if they were to get relegated from the Lowland League.

Agreed that they are different from the other clubs in that they have traditionally been a very strong non-league club. Point still stands that I think it will be a few years before a relegated Lowland League club comes back or even challenges for promotion (other than South sides). Had Whitehill Welfare been stronger and another team been relegated in their place, I think they also be battling relegation from the EoS Premier.

Thanks, got a bit confused with the conferences.

Also worth looking at what's happened to the relegated teams. Preston Athletic - tier 7 Hawick Royal Albert - tier 7 (heading for tier 8 next season) Whitehill Welfare - tier 6 (heading for tier 7 next season) The next few relegated clubs have very little chance of surviving at tier 6 (other than the SoS clubs) and some will be heading even further down.

Basically, the Lowland League has so many clubs playing above their natural level and those clubs are desperate to cling onto tier 5 football for as long as possible before disappearing down the leagues. They've voted against increased relegation (preserving a bizarre situation where a team could potentially end up on 0 points and stay up and not even face a playoff). They've voted, for the second time, to keep the colts in the league just for a chance of some extra cash. It's going to take so many years for these clubs to finally be relegated. I was backing Bonnyrigg to go up but now I hope it's a Highland League team so VoL and Gretna both get relegated. I have no sympathy for the clubs in terms of their being no automatic relegation from the SPFL. They can't complain about that when they're making such ridiculous decisions. The Lowland League was once a good example of a well-run league but it's now become a joke. The sooner some of these clubs get relegated, the better. Hopefully once some of the bigger non-league clubs join Bonnyrigg, Bo'ness etc. in the league, they'll start opening up relegation and making decisions for the good of the pyramid rather than to save themselves for a little longer.

They will be linking our World Cup playoff spot to B teams being in the Lowland League soon. What nonsense. Voting against increased relegation (maintaining the possibility of 0 teams being relegated) and voting the Bigot Brothers colts back in. The Lowland League is no better than the SPFL.

I'm not sure they even want to play in the Lowland League (probably the case for most SoS clubs). They resigned the last time and they resigned from the EoS. I'm not sure what benefit they would get from playing in the West of Scotland League but we'll see if the rumour is true...

Very interesting if it's true about Threave applying. Any ideas why they would want to? Perhaps looking for a different challenge/the chance to get promoted and face better opposition? Could any other other clubs apply from the SoS?

3 teams can playoff for 2 spots if needed. Not much need to mention the SoS currently. They're only there for historical reasons and have no chance up against the likes of Auchinleck, Pollok, Linlithgow etc.

Farcical that scenarios exist where there is no automatic relegation from a 16-team league or even a playoff. It should be one down automatically no matter what happens in other leagues. If this leaves them one short then just promote the EoS and WoS champions together.