stanley

Guessing you can't reveal the clubs (other than Dalkeith who have publicly revealed their application)? What is the maximum number of clubs the EoS would run with as one division and, if they split it into two divisions will the clubs who have applied/are interested still join if they have to begin in the first division? I realise people probably can't give definitive answers to those questions but it is interesting.

Not sure if he posts on here or not but there is a post from prorege on Tony's non-league forum saying:

Do you need seats for a licence or is a "standing stand" fine?

I see on the amateur forum that Stirling Uni are joining the Caledonian league. Could that be the EoS team moving over or is it a new uni team?

Not a fan at all of any proposals that end up with a situation where we have junior and senior leagues sitting at the same level of the pyramid but not integrated. What's the point? It would be crazy. You'd have the East of Scotland League and East juniors at the same level covering a very similar geographical area. Then you'd have the West junior top league at the same level as the South of Scotland League (a league which only covers a very small area of the west). The only real solution is a proper merger with East Juniors/EoS merging and West Juniors/SoS merging. Anything else is a mess and might damage the chances of integration in the long-run.

Source?

Absolutely terrible idea. Even if Hearts Colts were involved in this, I'd be against it on principle. No-one wants to watch their first team playing against Colt sides although I doubt the SFA have considered the opinions of lower league fans in this (or any non-Old Firm fans for that matter). Why would young players benefit more playing in League Two than going on the usual loans to higher divisions? Why do the Old Firm Colts get to go straight into League Two when there are non-league clubs further down the pyramid having to win their league and go through two sets of playoff matches just to get into the league? Absolutely no chance any of this will improve the national team. All of this is being done to benefit the Old Firm and certainly not to benefit Scottish football as a whole.

They didn't actually block it last season as the best placed licensed team was Coldstream in 5th. It would be a bad situation this season if they prevent Kelty from going up and it could become a huge problem longer term. Even if Kelty get promoted this season then LTHV could still keep blocking teams if they remain unlicensed in the future. Unfortunate situation when you have a team who had such a successful cup run (including beating SPFL teams) who are stuck down in level six. Even if LTHV become licensed then the problem may not go away as you still have Leith unlicensed (and with no plans at all to become licensed as far as I'm aware) but LTHV are clearly the biggest issue here.

Do they?

Any chance of any more new members for next season? Would be great if another junior club made the move alongside Dalkeith.

I'm very much on the side of an integrated system but I can't agree with this. The SFA are in charge of the game. They should be doing more. There are too many people with their own interests to protect and the SFA should be stepping in to put a proper system in place that includes all clubs (senior, junior, amateur, welfare). Bringing the juniors on board would massively improve things in the pyramid system. The thing is that if, suddenly, dozens of juniors clubs decided they wanted to join the pyramid then what would happen? It's not the responsibility of the clubs to set up their own leagues. They would have nowhere to go currently.

I don't agree with the idea of the junior champions being involved in a playoff for the Lowland League. If they aren't part of the system then they shouldn't be involved in the playoffs at all. I want the seniors/juniors to be part of a fully integrated system and giving the East/West junior champions a place in the playoffs does nothing to achieve that IMO. I'd say it possibly even reduces the chance of integration in the future. I think the best way forward would be to created a Lowland League Division One East/West and invite juniors/EoS/SoS/amateur clubs to apply to it. You could start with ten clubs in each initially and hopefully it would grow over time. It might be difficult to find enough teams right now for the leagues (for the West especially). You could also make it so that the teams have a time limit (maybe a couple of seasons and they'd have to show when they applied that they could realistically achieve it in that timeframe) in which they have to become licensed or they will be relegated from the league. You then push the EoS and SoS down to level seven of the pyramid and they remain as leagues that don't require a licence. Many of the current EoS and SoS clubs would remain in those leagues. There would then be promotion/relegation between the leagues (if clubs get a licence). Longer term, you'd be looking to add more leagues at level seven to cover more regional areas than simply the East/South. Potentially three or four divisions at that level if the juniors were to get involved. You could potentially have: Lowland League East: Kelty, Dalkeith, Preston, Coldstream, Burntisland plus five others (possibly LTHV if they get round to doing more work for their license). Lowland League West: Threave, St. Cuthbert, Newton Stewart, Glasgow Uni, Clydebank plus five others (probably including Bonnyton). Not sure the SoS clubs would go for it although it being a west league may encourage them more. I've left out Linlithgow and Girvan from the leagues as they don't appear to have shown any interest so far. It may be difficult to find ten clubs for each but the formation of the leagues may encourage a few clubs to go for it.

There are a few licensed teams in Edinburgh. Spartans already groundshare but maybe Edinburgh Uni or Civil Service?

I agree that it's taking a long time. It's disappointing and they are likely to, at some point, start blocking teams getting promoted. Could even be Kelty Hearts this season but hopefully they win the league and it's not an issue. That's why I advocate allowing the highest placed licensed team up as long as they finish in the top 3 (for example) of the league. Hopefully they do it one day as it would be interesting to see how they could do in the Lowland League.

Yes but if they became licensed and got promoted, they would be in the Scottish Cup each season automatically as well. They'd also start in the first round rather than in the preliminary rounds (where they could easily have to play junior sides). Lowland League would give them far more opportunities. Playing against bigger clubs with more fans (than the EoS, not claiming there are huge fanbases) and would give them a wider exposure. They've clearly demonstrated over the years that they are very capable of doing well in the Lowland League. I don't understand the argument that they would prefer to stay in the EoS. Other than the potential financial costs of bringing Saughton up to the required standard.

I'm not sure if they are any further forward but it seems to be taking a long time. I think HibeeJibee posted something not too long ago but their plans to become licensed. I don't really see what benefit there is for them to stay in the EoS winning it/getting second. I can see why some bigger junior clubs might be happy to stay in the juniors and challenging for the title but those benefits don't apply at all in the EoS. LTHV are a small fish in a small pond...getting promoted would be a good thing for the club. I struggle to believe that they are purposely trying to avoid promotion like some of the SoS clubs potentially are. Completely different situation for LTHV.

I think the EoS would happily expand again and have an extra division. The problem with that, longer term, junior clubs could have to start in the EoS first division and be two promotions away from the Lowland League. Pity a big group of them don't join together and then you'd effectively have an East junior division as the EoS division one and they'd continue playing against junior clubs anyway until they are promoted. Can't see it happening any time soon but it seems inevitable that more junior clubs will join in the future. Could end up with 15 clubs in the EoS next season if: -Highland League champions are promoted and Cowdenbeath/Clyde/Edinburgh City are relegated to Lowland League -Kelty Hearts (or LTHV if they get a licence) win the EoS and Hawick and Vale of Leithen (or another East-based club) are relegated -Dalkeith Thistle join the league Pretty amazing to think that it looked like EoS was in near terminal decline recently. We just need LTHV to get a licence now so they get promoted to the LL in the future and don't block other clubs getting up.

Any word on the actual meeting? Getting boring reading the same argument from the same poster.

I hope the West of Scotland League happens as I think it would represent some more progress towards a proper pyramid system. At the same time, it would still be crazy to have the South of Scotland League at the same level as the West of Scotland League when the SoS almost entirely represents only Dumfries & Galloway. I would hope that, over time, it would merge with the West league.

Bonnington Thistle came from the juniors? Weird. It also appears to be suggesting that they joined the "West of Scotland League".

Would Girvan be interested in joining? They only have the licence because they used to be in the South of Scotland and were SFA members. I don't think that gives any real indication of if they'd want to join or not. They obviously just wanted to retain the benefits that come with being licensed. Glasgow Uni seem more likely (although I still think it's a farce that they play in Airdrie now).

BSC are doing well right now but in the future they could potentially find themselves relegated from the Lowland League and it would surely be very undesirable for them to have to drop down to the South of Scotland League and play Dumfries & Galloway teams each week. Perhaps they could get into the East of Scotland League but, so far, it seems unclear about how it would work for a west team being relegated. Would they have to go to the SoS or would they get be able to get into the EoS if the EoS approved it? A bit of a mess which so far hasn't been answered as only Threave (voluntarily stepped down) and Preston (obviously EoS) have gone down.

If there was an integrated system then Hurlford (and other junior teams) would be making just as much atmosphere as before. There is nothing unique to the junior label that creates the atmosphere. The clubs make it and would continue to make it regardless of what organisation is running their leagues. The EoS, LL (or a WoS if created) would then create more atmosphere with the bigger junior clubs joining. The problem for the EoS and LL is the lack of clubs with bigger fanbases (in non-league terms) and that problem would be solved in an integrated system. The lack of those clubs is the problem not the distinction between senior and junior.

I hope this idea doesn't involve Old Firm "colts".

Very interesting development. Any more details on the proposals?