[The Queen of the South thread]

Well with a massive squad like Chis had I would have considered 4th plus a cup final a success,

Yes, you probably would.

This doesn't mean you'd be right though.

[The Queen of the South thread]

To achieve 4th place and a cup final with a squad that size is nothing short of brilliant.

Nice variation on "he's worked miracles".

Still nonsense though.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Stephen McKenna coming to us.

http://www.greenockt...na-set-to-join/

Great signing, if you hate those players who are constantly available for selection, because they don't spend half their lives suspended.

[The Queen of the South thread]

To be fair to the board most managers have not left queens expressing frustration at having to deal with them. Even McCall's complaints were mainly just financial. Brannigan must have played his part in the breakdown of the relationship.

What is terrible is the general handling of the situation. There was absolutely no need to wait this long, this saga could have been ended a while back. To be honest if Rae has not been waiting for the Ayr Utd playoff to end then the new manager should have been appointed way before now.

Well I, for one, welcome the decision to get rid of KB.

I've not appreciated his overall approach to the job and I don't think his conduct merited the offer of a new contract.

Football seems to have its own way of doing things, but breaking the news by letter doesn't - on the face of it - sound like the best of form.

It won't cost me sleep though, as doing the right thing hasn't really been an obsession of KB either.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Paul Burns, said to be joining either St.Mirren or Morton.

Thoughts on him please Doonhamers !

He's been a really important player for us for a long time and I'm pleased for him if he gets his crack at a higher level. We'll miss him lots though.

I don't see him letting anyone down in the SPL, but it'll be interesting to see if he can make an impact. I'm not entirely convinced, but hope I'm wrong.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Use got the money for Chisolm and Dodds aswell and apparently that was arond £400,000

Maginificent comedy.

I think that would have been the finest piece of business from our viewpoint, in the history of football.

[The Queen of the South thread]

I wouldnt be surprised if thats just a bit of educated guesswork on her part.

You're maybe right. MENSA membership isn't really required to reach a similar conclusion. It was said as part of the same announcement as the player one though, which made it sound a bit more formal.

The whole idea of releasing players is a bit misleading anyway these days. It's not so much that they've been released - it's more a question of not asking them to come back. In the post-Bosman short term apocalyptic world we now have, it's simply that players have to move around a lot.

The real question concerns whether they were offered much reduced terms or not. I suspect not as all three had poor(ish) seasons and were probably on the sort of contracts that we can't now come close to offering. I don't suppose it really matters much anyway. They're gone and will be replaced more cheaply.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Now on official site Derek Holmes , David Lilley , Willie McLaren has been released

With McMenamin already away and Burns also going thats 5 out.

No mention of any of the other out of contract players or the coaching staff.

I am a little concerened that the BOD are making playing decisions that really should be left to a Manager

Sandra Broon also mentioned on the radio at lunchtime that it's not anticipated that KB will be offered a new contract.

None of the departures mentioned so far have been surprising. Burns - and partly McMenamin - apart, I can't say that they fill me with too much regret either.

I'm not as critical of Holmes as many, but I still think we need more goals from front players than he seems able to offer, even if he does have some other qualities.

I take the point about Lilley's fitness last season, but I do suspect that he's past it and I'm not convinced that he can still do it at this level.

As for McLaren, he does have talent and I don't require players to run about daft in order to appreciate them. He hasn't delivered very much of late though, and I think he's probably a bit of a ned, especially if his alleged "shithole" remarks are true.

More departures to come obviously. The interesting bit will come when we eventually get some arrivals, not least a manager.

[The Queen of the South thread]

As a St Mirren fan, just came to this thread to have a wee read about Paul Burns, but while I'm here....

David Weatherston's parents are pally with my aunt and uncle. Last I'd heard (must have been last year sometime) he wasn't happy at all. Wasn't getting a game, but more than that, Brannigan was picking on him. Referred to him as 'the Clarkston boy' and didn't seem to think that someone of his background (university education, etc) should be playing football. Couldn't believe it when I was told; Brannigan sounds hideous. Don't know if David ended up going to the board about it, but he did receive support from some of the more senior players; "Don't let him get to you, etc, etc".

As I said, it was awhile ago I heard about that, but unless there's been a drastic change I don't think David will accept a new contract at Queens if Brannigan stays.

That's really interesting and pretty credible sounding.

Others will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think he's made comments in a public forum about Weatherston lacking 'heart' before.

He's also slevered some pish in the papers about his admiration for teams composed of "good, working class lads" before.

His version of class war through football management is just one more facet of his self-consciously boorish and moronic approach to the job.

It's not just that he behaves this way; it's that he's so bloody proud of it.

[The Queen of the South thread]

I dont think we can afford for it to be "unlikely". Both the BoD (well Rae, as hes the only one we ever hear from in public) and next seasons manager, whoever that is, have to do a better job of communicating with the fans and promoting a more positive image of the club.

We're not actually that far apart here.

I agree that we can't really carry on allowing the club to be projected this way.

I also think that dug-out change is more likely than boardroom change.

KB's spell in charge of the team has not been so bad that he must go, but it's not been so wonderful that he must stay either.

If we agree that we can't go on this way, then either KB needs to undergo some sort of Damascan conversion, or he must leave.

That's not to say the board are blameless - they're not. It is realistic though.

[The Queen of the South thread]

I dont think anyone is claiming KB is some sort of messiah, miracle worker or in line for any manager of the year awards. However, he has taken a decent team, but weak squad, to comparative success and, more importantly, has a good youth squad below it. Some of the football has been poor, but then some has been really good. From a footballing point of view I think it would be hard to argue that he hasnt done enough to, at least, be given a chance to continue the work hes started. Id rather have continuity with a decent manager than risk bringing in someone else who could turn out to be much worse.

As for behaving like a "total dick" well thats totally subjective. Some of his comments in the media were embarrassing but, in my opinion, far too much was made of them. In many ways, Id rather have the honesty of KB over the bullshit we used to get from McCall. And Brannigan is far from the only person at the club to have come off badly in the media this season. He certainly comes across well in person, and obviously has the backing and respect of the players ... or should that be "had"?

If he and Rae can sort out their differences and the whole club can learn from this seasons mistakes and present a more united, positive front in the media I dont see any reason not to offer KB another contract.

Fair enough Mr X if you're not claiming KB's a "miracle worker", but I have seen that very phrase used (and retracted) on here, and it's pretty much a staple of discourse over on the MAD site. As I've said before, performances on the field haven't in themselves been so bad as to necessarily see KB out of a job. It really isn't that simple though.

Of course, my "total dick" comment was entirely subjective. I don't think the term has ever been given a legal definition.

I stand by the sentiment though. He has, in my view, sought to further his own ends with his comments, without looking out for the greater good of the club. I don't hold with all this apparent "honesty" either. He has been dishonest in his statements about how few players are available ahead of each Saturday for one thing. As SD pointed out earlier too, he had no problem last year about out of contract palyers entering the close season in the dark. This year he's up in arms about the same thing and it's clear that this is all to do with his own position. That is intrinsically dishonest.

It's interesting that you mention McCall, a person whose conduct was inspired by similarly self serving motives.

As for he and Rae learning from mistakes and presenting a united front, this sounds unlikely. Apart from Rae's pretty evident failings, Brannigan has made an abolute virtue of his reluctance to speak and behave professionally. I'm truly baffled by the fact that so many have bought it.

[The Queen of the South thread]

I never liked him anyway, far too wee and most certainly far too skinny.

Now Truthy, I know that your non-attendance at games is a bit of a running joke on here, but your post really does reveal someone whose seen Paul Burns and knows what he looks like, but has hardly seen him play.

I remember often hearing when he came through, that he was too easily brushed off the ball.

I don't once remember actually seeing such a thing happen though.

He's skinny, but very wiry and strong, as well as extremely committed.

I'm not entirely convinced that he's got quite enough class for top flight football, but he's certainly equipped for it physically.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Just a pity he did nae get another year for his testimonial. Good luck burnsy you deserve it.

David Rae you missed the boat and others will follow unless you get you act together

If true that he's off there, we can safely say that no boats have been missed.

St Mirren are a team in the SPL who we shouldn't for a second be attempting to compete with on wages.

I'm really sorry to see Burns go, but I've been resigned to it for a while.

I've loved him as a player for us and if a move has come, I'm glad that it involves a clear step up for him.

I hope he does well.

[The Queen of the South thread]

He equalled our highest finish in the league since promotion despite working with the smallest squad during that time. He got our highest ever points total since promotion and got us to the ALBA cup final. As seasons go at Queen of the South that is pretty damn successful.

Yes, numerically a smaller squad, but still a costlier one than we'd had in all but the two or three seasons before it.

The only half decent team with any interest in beating us during the Alba Cup competition, duly did so with ease.

In the league, we did fine with our expensive players available and duly crumpled without them.

You've also got to recognise that the league was particularly weak this year and that the Dundee situation undermines the 4th place finish a bit.

Throw in how we performed in the cups that matter and some of the gloss comes off.

Oh and much of our 'football' was horrible.

Now, I'm deliberately putting a negative spin on things here, but at least I'm admitting it. It's no more inaccurate then the stuff above about how well we did under KB.

I'll say it again: in a football sense he did ok - no better, no worse. He did however behave like a total dick all year and I hope we needn't endure him much longer.

[The Queen of the South thread]

My bet would be that KB will be Manager next season. I hope so as he deserves another chance after what he achieved this season...think once he is sorted out we will find a few of the players accepting contracts to play at Palmy next season.

Dont think things are as bleak as a lot of folk are making out.

If you're right about the managerial position, then as far as I'm concerned, things just got a lot bleaker.

Seriously, what exactly was "achieved" this season?

[The Queen of the South thread]

Those types of comment have pre-dated Brannigan by quite a considerable time though ... You're going to struggle to convince me KB's comments have had much, if any impact.

Also bearing the circumstances in mind, not enough on its own to justify not renewing his contract, especially when the footballing side of things has been so successful.

Yes, such comments do go back a long way, and I agree that they reflect a disinterested ignorance more than anything else.

We'll have to agree to differ on the unwinnable argument of how much impact Brannigan's comments might have had though. You think it was next to none; while I'd say his comments were one important factor among a few others, but I certainly can't prove it.

I'd also take issue with the "so successful" part of your post.

To my mind, it's been ok over the piece - the last fortnight apart, much worse than that latterly.

For me, the footballing evidence for renewing or otherwise would be pretty neutral. The rest however, tips the balance against him. Quite heavily.

[The Queen of the South thread]

McMenamin saying in the standard that he's meeting with Davie Rae next week to see what he has to say but has already been approached by 4 other first division clubs. Also mentions rumours of possibly moving training to Dumfries or Carlisle, which would have an influence.

I've not seen the Standard. Are you saying that there's mention there of possibly moving training to Carlisle?

If so, that would imply a complete change of strategy, in that we'd be looking to the North of England for players again.

Have I got totally the wrong end of the stick here, because to me, that sounds unlikely?

[The Queen of the South thread]

Brannigan with his "the squad is too small". ... I don't particularly think Brannigan's wining about squad size had any negative impact.

The comments I hear from people (friends and workmates) cite ... "lack of ambition"

You say that his whining about enforced cutbacks has no impact; yet concede that a perceived lack of ambition is among the reasons cited by those who don't attend.

It's impossible to gauge accurately how much damage Brannigan's doom mongering might have done to gates. I don't think however that it can be dismissed as a potential factor, for the reasons you pretty much admit yourself in the above post.

[The Queen of the South thread]

This of course means that making the right managerial appointment will be absolutely vital. There is a clear and obvious solution that instantly wipes out this crucial decision, but it won't be taken and I sadly believe it will be made based on personal, rather than footballing reasons. Not an ideal way to run a football club. Considering the bad feeling that already exists towards the board, and the financial implications of relegation, the wrong appointment could spell absolute disaster for the club, on and off the park.

I wouldn't say that the footballing reasons for offering him a new contract are all that compelling. I accept however that he's done well enough in that sense to merit another crack in normal circumstances.

The personal factor is a deservedly big one though. He's spread negativity from the outset. I'm no fan of the board, but some of his published comments about the club have been downright unprofessional.

He's deliberately given the impression all season of being outside the tent pissing in, rather than the other way round.

It's time to make this outsider status official.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Musical chairs?

I'd be amazed to find we've been employing any system quite that sophisticated.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Aimed at me? I'm presuming not.

I never (or very rarely) directly criticise managers whilst in situ. It would be difficult for me to do so. I'm not really guilty of doing so after they are gone either though.

I did suggest the last time we needed a manager that you be invited to join the application sifting process to save the criticism later.

There's a sifting process?

[The Queen of the South thread]

The last two?

Kirky has been (rightly or wrongly) a steadfast critic of every manager (and the appointment process thereof) we've had since Connolly. That's four anyway. I can't recall if he was posting far enough back to have critiqued Connolly and, if so, what his opinion was.

So he wasn't overly enamoured with Scott or McCall either?

Sounds like the exercising of critical faculties to me.

[The Queen of the South thread]

But, just think, you'll get a nice new manager to whinge about instead ... how exciting!

I'm sure he doesn't need my help, but I'd tend to defend Kirky here.

The fact that he's found plenty to "whinge" about with regard to the last two managers doesn't mean he'll always moan about whoever's in charge.

It just means that he's in possession of some critical faculties. That's actually not a bad thing.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Best place for this I suppose. From the OS - Hope I'm not breaking any of your rules Mr X.

http://www.qosfc.com...aspx?newsid=593

I'm not really sure that it means much beyond its admission of mistakes. We're also being prepared to see lots of Under-19s next year.

Detailed communication like this should probably be welcomed though.

[The Queen of the South thread]

Davie Rae should tell KB to go. How many people really think he should stay after all he's said in public?

I really hope QOSMad doesn't present an accurate cross-section of our support; but if it does, the answer to your question is an alarmingly large number.