gaz5

Would it though? What about the clubs who have diverted all funds from the playing side to develop their club/grounds for the longer term future of the club who then want to apply for a licence once that work is up to licence standard? Not everyone can afford to put an expensive first team on the park at the same time as developing their ground, for many smaller clubs limiting the achievement of the first team in order to progress off the park is a conscious choice. More power to clubs who can do both, but you can't discount clubs who need to choose. The issue here isn't the criteria, it's that the SFA have changed it, at zero notice, while people are in process.

Not to be a pedant, but the ERSJFA is comparable to the EoS, who have been nothing short of exceptional for all of the teams who moved, rather than the SFA. SJFA would be the comparison for the SFA and on the face of it seems both of those organisations have been equally as useless for the teams under their umbrella recently. Given it was clear last week that the SJFA hadn't made the ERSJFA or the clubs aware that regional split league's wasnt acceptable to the SFA, it would be easy to argue that both organisations, SJFA and SFA are in full on shitgibbon mode. Juniors/Seniors - seems on both sides the clubs are not being best served by their respective governing body and that's shit for everyone. [emoji853]

Great achievement, congratulations. [emoji106]

For already licensed teams without lights, I believe the mechanism for removing licenses is through the annual re-audit. Don't think you can just take them away. So in theory any club without them has until they are re-audited this year to get them in, at which point of they don't they would lose their licence? I'm sure I saw someone say that Whitehill weren't due an audit till September time? So they would have the licence to start the season, but not shortly after (as well as CSS, Vale). It's all a bit messy. Could mean zero promotion places this season, but 3 (or 4 if someone other than the 3 teams finished bottom) next season. Feel for the clubs who have been refused on the basis of floodlights only. Poor show. ETA: We've not heard anything about our application.

They'll still get the £49k "prize money" (last I saw) for finishing last in L2 will they not, as well as qualify for the league cup and get directly into round 2 of the Scottish? Considering the LL prize money is zero and no one outside of the top 3 qualify for any higher level cups, the relegated team still had a huge advantage, financially, over LL teams.

Given the way the SFA are dicking about if they're licence ready in a year, they might get their licence award sometime in season 2023/24. [emoji846]

Good spot! It appears I have inadvertantly set the Swype keyboard on my phone to have the wrong spelling of Tier and I hadn't noticed! Promptly corrected. [emoji846]

In your example, again in my opinion, the South section there is slightly stronger than the West, both stronger than the central. In the South there, Tynecastle, LTHV, Leith, Dalkeith, Haddington, Preston and Herriot Watt are all going to be in the group of "fancied" sides next season. And against those teams, in perpetuity as you don't want a Teir 8, teams like Eyemouth, Tweedmouth etc n that section will struggle, like they have this season, playing against sides far stronger than they are, no disrespect intended (enjoyed our trip to Eyemouth and they deserve huge respect for keeping on keeping on). Eventually that would potentially see us lose those sorts of sides to the league, because they are not playing at a level that (currently) they should be, without Teir 8 for 2020/21. They will eventually get fed up of having little chance to win games, if it's not known it's during an orderly transition to a more sensible structure. In the West there's Fauldhouse, Pumpherston, Clydebank (who won't join the EoS anyway), Whitburn, Bathgate and Sauchie (who will be in EoS Premier anyway) who would all be seen as bigger sides. In the Central in your proposal, there's not really a standout other than Tayport (in terms of what I know, I could be wrong and no disrespect meant). There's also the question of who gets relegated to where in that scenario. If you deem Sauchie, Dunipace and Stirling Uni "West" that suggests that very few teams, when you look at where the strength lies above, would ever get relegated to the central league, so it's unlikely to get any stronger. And in your scenario only the winners of each of those sections would get promoted season on season. Honestly, I just don't think having all those teams in the sand Teir forever more based on geography works when you have that many teams with such a quality spread within them. With 44 teams in your example, there's more than enough for a 16 team Teir 7 and then regional league's at Teir 8, which would be far more accommodating of teams finding a level, rather than playing against sides who are far stronger than them in perpetuity. It makes far more sense to have a championship, with regional league's below. Premier (16) Winner into playoff Bottom 3 down --------- Championship (16) Top 3 up Bottom 3 down ---------- North (# as required) / South (# as required) Winner up / Winner up second places playoff Gives everyone a fighting chance at the level they should be playing at. Obviously there would have to be provision in the rules for an EoS side getting relegated from the LL and no EoS promotion to it, which would likely then see 3 relegations from Premier but only 2 promotions from championship to balance the numbers. Again, with 3 conferences below, that becomes harder to manage as all 3 conference winners couldn't go up without Relegating 4 teams, which is too much from a 16 team league. And in order to get there, the fairest way is seeded conferences based on performance this season, exactly as we've just seen work so magnificently. Again, only my opinion.

I think the need exists because we would want 3 up/3 down from a 16 team premier to keep the flow moving. If you don't have a Teir 8 that could mean having 35+ clubs in 3 conferences at Teir 7 and only the conference winners go up, plus all the issues of "balancing" when the premier teams come down. Having a Teir 7 championship makes it simple, bottom 3 of premier down, top 3 of championship up. Bottom 3 of championship down with regional conference winners plus winner of second place playoff up. It's the most sensible solution, in my opinion. But it is only that, my opinion. I think that way there's more movement and teams get to the right level faster.

Yep, but you've started one level too high. EoS Premier and WoS Premier when it comes in will be premier. Lowland and Highland a level above them both.

Not of the EoS structure it's not, any more than SPFL2 is the Premier for the Lowland League. Clue is kinda in the EoS Premier League name. [emoji846] As far as I'm aware the plan is to create a second league under the EoS Premier to be a championship, with next season's conferences, meaning geographical at Teir 7 would be less desirable to reach that outcome as conferences would be different quality depending on geography.

I'm not sure the EoS is still an option for Clydebank? They obviously have a deferred acceptance, but that would now be for Teir 7 and I can't imagine the official connected with the club who has been slaughtering the EoS for the better part of 6 months will do them any favours. Granted it's only one man, but that man being (apparently) an active club official means it's more than just one fans view. WoS breakaway league might be the best option, if they can garner enough support for it.

I don't think Geography based conferences at Teir 7 next season would work given we would be looking to turn that into a championship the year after. Some conferences would be a good bit weaker than others. Seeded conferences again at T7 next year for me, so they are as equal as possible, to make up a championship for 20/21. Regional at T8 after that, in 20/21.

Who do they think is going to administer discipline beneath Teir 6? Surely Teir 6 league's and their structure beneath should be administered the same way?

It wasn't clear from what was said at the meeting. I've spoken to a few others who were there and on that point we all had different interpretations. In fairness, it wasn't a key point so wasn't really discussed at all, other then the initial statement from RP.

That was covered in the notes everyone provided about the meeting. There was a suggestion by RP that the juniors could still participate in the LL playoff from outwith the pyramid itself if the Lowland League agreed to change the playoff rules and gain agreement from those they need to do that, is rules state that the playoff can contain 2, 3 or 4 teams of Ian Maxwell's choosing. The suggestion was, quite rightly, laughed out of the room. Having a system where structure and sporting merit are irrelevant, letting the SFA CE choose whatever teams he fancied, essentially? That's even dumber than the first idea which was rejected 54-0. The LL also confirmed, as they had been asked to change the rules by 31/12, that you finish a season with the rules you start, so the 31/12 deadline meant it couldn't happen next season even in the hugely unlikely event that everyone did agree to that batshit crazy idea.

Yes, one club not in attendance so essentially an abstention I think was the reason for it being 12.

There is. Top league of 16 and conferences at Teir 7 beneath it. As has been said, that's been known since the start of the season.

While I see what you are saying mate, when it becomes obvious that the mandate you have been given is both undesirable, undeliverable and pursuing it will needlessly impact on the majority of your members those who have the mandate should be presenting that again to their members, whom they are supposed to serve. Not to mention it seems to have been easy enough to drop the North juniors from that mandate as and when it suited, so it's obviously not iron clad. Also, It's not out with TJ's control to have called an EGM at any point in the last 3 months to present what everyone had been saying, that the West, Tayside and North if they want could go next season (with discipline aligned to SFA) and the East could either stay external to the pyramid in the ERSJFA or join the EoS to be within it, whatever the clubs preferred. That conversation, when it was blindingly obvious to everyone was the case, is what a leadership acting in the best interests of their members would have done and allowed their members to vote on that. Instead we got what has now proven, from the horses mouth, to be false guarantees about a "done deal for Teir 6" and then allowing the ERSJFA to have reconstruction votes knowing that would further kibosh the idea, seemingly without telling the clubs that. The answer here is and always has been very, very straightforward. Is it a coincidence that the only person who, unfortunately, may suffer from that answer seems from the outside to be doing anything he can to undermine it? I hope following Thursdays meeting and what was said by RP a lot of junior clubs, particularly those in the West, take notice and are in a mood to ask questions. We all want the juniors in. It's for the good of the game on the non league. The way to do that is relatively simple and always has been.

TBH, I don't think the ERSJFA are bothered at all about being in the pyramid, either at organisational or club level. There's certainly likely to be less clubs who want in than those who couldn't care less. If they did, they would happily move over to the EoS to be back in the same structure as the former ERSJFA big guns from South of the Tay. The frustrating thing for our junior colleagues is that the apathy from the remaining clubs/ERSJFA is at this moment stopping the WRJFA teams from being able to move over. RP and IM had no real sense of the issue, unsurprisingly, when they turned up. They continually referenced an unwillingness to support juniors in the pyramid. It was repeatedly pointed out to them that no one had any issue at all with the juniors being in, it was the overlapping league's for no reason in the East. A straw poll was actually conducted in the meeting, with both in attendance. "Would anyone have an issue with the West juniors, Tayside and North juniors moving over to Teir 6 next season under their geographical feeder?" Not one dissenting voice, everyone agreed that's what was best for the game. And an invite was extended to join the EoS for the remaining South sides to get them in as well. Again, not a dissenting voice. Hopefully RP and IM went away realising that the bullshit they have been fed re: EoS and LL not wanting the juniors in was a nonsense. Everyone wants the juniors in, they just want it in the most sensible way.

It's not open for interpretation in any way, it was a very clear statement, clarified multiple times. RP stated that a 16 team superleague was a requirement in the East, the SJFA had made the SFA aware of the plan to split into North and South regions and the SFA have fed back that splitting into regions would be unacceptable for Teir 6 entry ever in future, it has to be one league of 16. It was very, very clear. Almost as clear as, and this is verbatim and again repeated several times: "The Juniors will not be in the pyramid next season". In fairness, the feedback from the room was that the ERSJFA had done the job for everyone by essentially creating a Tayside league which could join at Teir 6 among with the West Juniors, the remaining South league clubs able to come under the auspices of the EoS, job done.

Just for clarity, you can't choose not to accept promotion if you earn it and meet the criteria for the next league up within the pyramid. Clubs could choose not to get licensed if they never wanted promoted into the LL, and at present they could "throw" the LL playoff if they win the LL. But if/when automatic promotion comes, that's not an option. You certainly can't "opt out" because you don't want to go up.

I don't think the West Region would be lying to their clubs, I think it more likely they are getting their information second hand and that doesn't match with what the SFA are actually saying. As has been said, Ian Maxwell was in attendance with Rod Petrie last night and their collective message to the EoS and LL delegates in attendance was: "the juniors are not in Teir 6 for next season". The EoS delegates got that directly and repeatedly from the top men at the SFA. I doubt that's where the WRSJFA got their message? Either way, it's a poor outcome for Scottish non league football. Everyone wants the West involved from next season except, it would seem, the SJFA. The EoS couldn't have been more open last night in saying the West, North and Tayside would be welcomed as Teir 6 league's and the remaining South league juniors who wanted to join the pyramid would be welcomed into the EoS as the previous 25 were last year. The barriers to that happening and us having a functional pyramid for next season are entirely those of the SJFA and for West clubs in particular, that's a real shame.

I was sat in the room. I heard it directly from the Vice President of the SFA. It's not second hand or possibly misconstrued information, that is direct from those who apparently run the game. Where did the WRSJFA info come from? RP or TJ? Unless RP was lying to the 80 or so delegates, which despite his unwillingness to answer many questions I don't believe he was, either something has changed or the WRJFA have a bad source. He offered that information as part of his presentation, he wasn't pushed for it at all. And he repeated it half a dozen times or more.

I agree, the takeway for RP and IM, which they seemed to get, was that there should be one league/setup in each geography, North, West, South, East. The examples used to illustrate why allowing the East Juniors to sit at the same level as an existing league in the East was thus: We allow East and West Juniors into Teir 6 alongside the EoS and SoS. There are two structures in the East now because "if clubs want to join as part of their own structure, why shouldn't they?" (RP). OK, so when the Central AFL want to join the pyramid, they join at Teir 6 alongside the West Region juniors, because we should allow structures to join under their own current setup when there's already a league in that Geography? Or any other league? Everyone comes in at Teir 6 whenever they want, even if there's already a structure in that area? At that point, I think they realised what they were actually proposing was unworkable in the East. They also confirmed there was no option to split the East and West juniors, it was either both or neither so the current proposal was neither at Teir 6. The room unanimously rejected that idea, making it clear that they wanted the West juniors in for next year. The support for the West was confirmed on at least 3 occasions. It seems the EoS support the introduction of the West more than the SJFA do, to be honest.