capt_oats

This is kind of it for me. To me Aitchison was a replacement for Shields and/or Efford (given his injury). Which is fine, we'd loaned one out (whose confidence was absolutely shot) and the other was long term injured. It was a short term deal so we weren't on the hook for it. It just leaves us looking at having a bunch of *options* for the same role and gives Kettlewell decisions to make. @crazylegsjoe_mfc is spot on with the post above about having a whole bunch of players who essentially do the same thing. See also the fact that we've got Spittal, Tierney and Danzaki for the #10. That's before you even ask the question of what Lennon Miller is? Is he a #6, an #8 or a #10? Which brings us back to the pathway conversation. I think it's wild that anyone's made any sort of judgement on Aitchison one way or another but as @Handsome_Devil's post alludes to -given where we are now, how do we square the idea of offering a "pathway" if we've got a collection of Aitchison, Efford and Shields ahead of...for example Ferrie who seems a similar-ish player? None of that is to say it can't be sorted out but it's still all a bit messy tbh.

Fwiw these were our profit/losses during McCall's time - cheers for that Leeann: 2010/11 - 6th, Scottish Cup runners up, LC semi-final - £541,863 - McCall appointed 30th December 2010 2011/12 - 3rd, Scottish Cup QF, LC 3rd round - (£600,000) 2012/13 - 2nd, Scottish Cup 4th round, LC 3rd round - (£184,800) 2013/14 - 2nd, Scottish Cup 4th round, LC QF - (£184,854) 2014/15 - 11th, Scottish Cup 4th round, LC 3rd round - (£1,150,000) - McCall resigns 2nd November 2014

Tbh, I'm not sure it's as dramatic as that. That said, it's clear we'll have taken a hit on this season - I think Kettlewell has said as much himself in so much as it's been a tough year financially for the club. Being on to our third manager that stands to reason. Like @eliphas I think what SK is saying is pretty much stating facts - we've got 17 players contracted and (I'd assume) will have offers in to the 8 or so players who have been starting regularly for him. Assuming they all sign (they won't) that gives us a first team squad of 25 which is us maxed out in terms of both bodies and by extension budget. Until there's clarity in terms of who's re-signing and who (if any) we're able to shift then it leaves us in a bit of a bind. The annoying part is that it's kind of legacy stuff - no shade on the players themselves - but the likes of Maguire, Shields, Mugabi, Lamie and Morris were all signed on multi-year deals/extensions by a previous manager and it's Kettlewell who's now having to sort that out. Then again, that's the job. With that in mind, it does raise a question as to whether we've got any PCAs out there. I was sceptical about the McMullen stuff largely because Dundee fans seem to fall over themselves at the vaguest hint of a rumour and also the timeline seemed weird to me - I couldn't see us agreeing a PCA with anyone while we looked like locks for relegation. Kind of disagree with that in so much as both Mandron and Obika are pretty key to making the current shape/system work. The problem is that the other key part is having a KVV or similar that they facilitate.

Aye. That also happened.

Tbh, given the amount of time he's missed with injury this season (and the fact he's apparently had another set-back) I wouldn't be surprised by this in the same way we did right by Craig Tanner etc. See also Jake Carroll - I'd imagine he'll be offered a Tanner deal.

It was a good goal tbf.

On the 'hamstrung' point I don't think I quite realised the size of the squad what with the long term injuries and loans. It also doesn't help that the majority of the short term signings in January have been good and the legacy players who signed extensions have been bumped down to the bench. Assuming SOD isn't mistaken as to how long he has left on his deal then by my count we've 17 players already contracted who have been in and around the matchday squad plus 8 regular starters. Assuming we offer deals to all 8 that puts us on 25 bodies before we've even thought about changing things up. I mean, of those (fit) with 1 year left then based on minutes played you could trim Lamie, Mugabi, Maguire, Shields and Morris (although it sounds like the latter is being dealt with). Contracted for next season: GK: Kelly, Oxborough DF: SOD (?), Lamie, Mugabi, McGinley, Blaney, Butcher MF: Spittal, Slattery, Tierney, Maguire, Miller FW: Van Veen, Danzaki, Morris, Shields Regular starters OOC: GK: n/a DF: McGinn, Johnston, Furlong, Casey MF: Cornelius, Goss FW: Mandron, Obika Squad OOC: GK: n/a DF: Carroll MF: Paton FW: Efford, Aitchison, McKinstry Already launched: Crankshaw

Fwiw this is kind of where I am on Aitchison as well. Like, I'm not sure he's had enough impact to keep around but *quiet voice* in his cameos he's looked a better fit for what we seem to trying to do than Joey Efford (who I've seen posts on another forum suggesting we keep).

Some boi.

I think he was sold a pup. Reading between the lines I think he left us to sign for them on the promise that they were selling Siegrist but for whatever reason they didn't sell him and Trev ended up parked on the bench - in exactly the same position he was with us while Gillespie was here. He got his loan move to Morecambe and I get the impression that it was him asking for the transfer rather than United binning him.

To this point, I suppose it brings up the pathway question as well. Someone like Sam Campbell has missed the full season due to injury but prior to that he was in conversation with Brighton, Leeds and Liverpool about a potential move. Like, I've never seen him play but in principle if we're making the argument about us offering a pathway then I'm not sure how that squares exactly if we're now stacked 6 deep with senior centre backs. It's that argument that it's more realistic to think that much like Turnbull, Campbell etc these are players we've developed who were better than anything we could afford to sign. Who knows maybe there's another Hutchinson cutting about the #YoungMotherwell squad.

Obviously it's hard to argue in favour of United's goalkeeping situation and as far as I can make out Hinchliffe's first spell wasn't great but it's kind of weird from the outside looking in from a Motherwell perspective. Hinchliffe was with us for 5 years and worked with Carson, Gillespie and Kelly as our #1s who were/are very good goalkeepers for us. Both Carson and Gillespie were excellent. In fact the dip we saw in Kelly's form came after Hinchliffe left and we brought in Neil Alexander - although in hindsight it would seem that Alexander was absolutely not the problem there.

Just chucking this out there, there was a comment from Ketts in his pre-match about squad/recruitment: There's a chance I'm misinterpreting him but there's an implication there that a decent number of those who are OOC will be offered new deals. We already know that Johnston, Cornelius and Casey have contracts on the table and it wouldn't be a surprise to add McGinn and Goss to that list. Besides that, the reason I mention it is it's been interesting to me that Shane Blaney seems to have been our go to to replace Casey while Ricki Lamie has been parked on the bench. Which is fine - we've invested in him and it's giving a chance to see how he fits in. For avoidance of doubt that's not me advocating for Lamie to get on the park but it feels like a choice and it seems kind of relevant given not getting a game was one of Lamie's cited reasons for taking the PCA with Dundee (alongside the fact they were chucking daft money at him to sign). As it stands the Bathgate Maldini has played a total of 39 minutes for Ketts compared with 2,159 for Hammell. Broadly, it feels like there's definitely a conversation to be had about players who are under contract for next season who haven't really kicked a baw for SK (when they've been fit) as much as there are questions about players who are OOC being offered new deals.

I think the thing that has my head genuinely spinning is that it's not like he's done that thing interim managers often do and just tried to be "difficult to beat" and ask the players to go out and play the percentages. Instead he's stuck a bunch of our players in the positions that best suit them and said "off you go". Even SODs seems to be having A Nice Time now that he's being asked to do the things he's actually fucking good at rather than continue the trauma of his 3 previous managers choosing to completely ignore the role he had in a Scotland jersey when he was terroring Jack Grealish. Don't get me wrong, we're clearly better organised and *whisper it* better coached but we're actually playing with a bit of style and confidence which isn't usually the case when someone takes over a team with 2 league wins in 20. The fitba' bit usually takes a back seat - I don't think that's really been the case with Ketts and Frail. There was a line in that Moult piece that McGarry did which caught my eye: I mean, yeah...sort of but I'd probably argue that Kettleball is probably landing somewhere in that sweet spot between Robinson's Thunderdome and his sexy #YoungMotherwell eras. Which is nice. Which to speak to @Swello's post above - makes all the difference when you're actually trying to sell the product to punters and - I'd guess - prospective players you're trying to recruit.

Honestly, this season has been so fucking weird. That's now clean sheets in 6 of Kettlewell's 12 games in charge. Which is more than Hammell managed (5) in his 24 league games. I mean, just look at it...

He is. There's a 2nd tweet confirming.

There he is…

They announced this at the start of the week.

Also - AGAINST

Yeah, it's not difficult to see where the number comes from. The following were under contract at other clubs when we signed them: Liam Kelly (QPR) Callum Slattery (Southampton) Juhani Ojala (Vejle) Sondre Solholm Johansen (Mjøndalen) Joe Efford (Waasland-Beveren) Jordan Roberts (Hearts) We also had a development fee for Ross Tierney (and maybe Robbie Mahon?). At least 7 potential fees there. Some would presumably be more nominal than others - did Kelly not have another 2 years on his QPR deal when we signed him? An average of £77k per player coming on the back of a season where we'd posted a £3.5m profit and a contributed to a season where we finished 5th and qualified for Europe. I mean, don't get me wrong I'm not sure it was necessarily a successful strategy but it could probably have been much worse and I'd hope that the subsequent deal for Sol at least washed its face. Tbh, kind of related to the James Furlong conversation I wondered whether it's actually more effective to target players in the final year of their contracts and pay nominal/development fees to secure them and just eat that as a cost of doing business than it is to go to free agency players and lose out when it comes to the auction on wages.