thelegendthatis
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Posts posted by thelegendthatis
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Whether or not Rangers could have afforded or attracted the players if they were not paying through an EBT is not really relevant. The fact is they were used, and it gained them an advantage over their rivals.
Player A is offered to Celtic & Rangers
Celtic offer £20k a week, through the books. After tax he picks up maybe £12k.
Rangers offer £20k a week, using the EBT to pay most of it. After the payment is processed he picks up £18k.
Where will the player go?
The financial advantage that comes with using the EBT will lead to a sporting advantage, which will lead to success on the park, which will bring in more money from CL qualification and the like, which leads to further sporting advantage. In fact, how Rangers managed to f**k that up completely is beyond me, that maybe says something about the incompetence of those running the club.
Any club using an EBT, and I include Celtic as I know they used them, should have their records scrapped for any game a player who benefited from the payment participated in. Not just in Scotland, but in England as well. I like to think that the Rangers situation is just the tip of the iceberg, although I am wise enough to know that very little will be done to anyone.
This is the pressure clubs are under, especially when signing foreign players.
There still is NO excuse for double contracts or EBTs used in a way that is not accepted by HMRC. If in doubt just go here
http://search2.hmrc.gov.uk/kb5/hmrc/contactus/home.page and give them a call.
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You have hit the nail on the head and re-iterated a point I have made a few times here.
I know for a fact (because i know some of the staff, but obviously won't identify them) that they knew PAYE was not being paid. They also knew that VAT was not being paid or put aside. They chose to do nothing about it. Some of these people have been employed by Rangers for many years so that were not Whytes people.
Some of these people wil be members of professional bodies and would have had a duty under that association to bring this behaviour to the attention of the authorites.
None of these people are Craig Whyte.
From the report from the SFA tribunal
"Similarly, Mr John McClelland and Mr John Greig resigned in October because they knew that they were being excluded andmarginalised at the same time as they had great concerns for the governance of Rangers FC and were deeply suspicious of Mr Craig Whyte before and after hisacquisition of the majority shareholding from MIHL. Other than resignation therewas no eveidence that either of these directors took any steps with any person orauthority to do anything about what they knew was happening. Criticism might belevelled at these directors and others. Mr Olverman as Financial Controlleroccupied a very senior role within Rangers FC and as a matter of admission he knewof the non payment of taxes and the somewhat strange practices and secrecywhich was the deliberate policy advanced by Mr Craig Whyte. Though it was nopart in the matter before us, and did not impact on our decision on the complaintswhich were before us, Mr Ken Olverman was also aware of an apparently unusualtransaction involving Ticketus which had a substantial significance in the exercise of any fiduciary duty which he, as a senior officer of the company, owed towards thecompany, rather than owed towards Mr Craig Whyte"
These are just some of the people responsible for what has happened to Rangers. Why Rangers supporters are not irate about how those into whose hands they put their trust let them down so badly. Greig, McClelland and Olverman are the 3 named here.
Rather than pouring their ire on the SFA, SPL, or other clubs, they would be more productively employed asking those whom they considered to be 'one of them' why they failed so miserably. They not just let them down, they screwed their club totally.
Hopefully tonight's programme will give us other names who took what was a genuinely world famous club to where it is today, on its kness, with a high probability of disappearing totally.
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Heres the latest pearl of wisdom from followfollow.com, apparantly Rangers buying Lee Wallace on the never never was them helping Hearts out.
In other news it seems that as a result of Steve Browns comments St Johnstone have been added to "the list" get in there.
Delighted that followfollow remind us of their generosity.
Looking at the moves from Hibs, Thompson and Whittaker had agents who were not called Willie Mckay.
A phone call invites them to the Balmoral Hotel to meet an agent . ' I have moves lined up for you to Rangers'.
A few sweeteners and .....
From Wikipedia
"In the 2005–06 season Thomson made his comeback from his injury, establishing himself as one of Hibernian's most important players. He signed a long term contract (until 2010) in March 2006. Thomson was appointed as club captain by Tony Mowbray after the previous captain Gary Caldwell left the club to join Celtic. Despite signing a long term contract with Hibernian, it was still speculated that Thomson would soon leave Hibs. On 31 August 2006, Premier League club Bolton Wanderers made an offer that was rejected by Hibernian.[3]
Speculation about Thomson's future increased after he (and Scott Brown) appointed Willie McKay as his agent. McKay demanded that Hibernian..........."
Did McKay do it all on his own, or was he sent? If so by whom? McKay of course has a 'good' relationship with Rangers and their key staff even trying to load Daniel Cousin onto them even while in administration.
Who was Thompson's agent before Willie, and what encouraged him to walk away?
Who benefited most? Hibs or Willie?
Will pass on the full story if you give me a new Merc and £25k (cash).
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Is this not the time of the year when David Murray invited the numptie journalists around to talk about the new signings Rangers had (potentially) lined up? Just as the new season tickets went on sale.
We should be reading about Torres, Drogba, van Persie who are 'just about' to sign. And of course they are impressed with the setup at Rangers, love the traditions and the fans sooooo much
Maybe Duff or even Duffer could set the rumour mill going. "17 year old boy wonder signed from Stirling Albion will be the next Messi" . After all I assume they will sell season tickets for the next campaign.
You don't have long guys to get the supporters excited, before they say 'sod it'.
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Don't know if this has already been posted but apparently this is Johnson's latest pish spouting on the issue:
"I am a solicitor by profession and in terms of the distinction between a CVA and a newco, it can become quite complicated but at the end of the day, from a creditors' point of view, there is maybe no difference," he said.
"In terms of how it affects a sporting competition, I do share the view and I think the football authorities have traditionally taken the view, that a football club is not to be identified 100% with the people that own it, or the corporate entity that owns it.
"A football club has its own identity which consists of various components – the history of the club, the stadium, the players but most importantly, the supporters. So you have got to be careful if you are trying to protect a football club which is a very long-standing and historical institution.
"You have got to be very careful not to come in too heavily with penalties and points deductions or financial penalties going forward which actually put people off investing in that club and trying to make it healthy. After all, it's not the new owners who have done the damage, it is the previous owners."
Truly shameful stuff.
"the football authorities have traditionally taken the view, that a football club is not to be identified 100% with the people that own it, or the corporate entity that owns it."
Johnston might be better employed reading the report from the SFA tribunal and subsequent appeal, before he gives his 'opinion'. They say otherwise and back it up with facts and legal precedents.
"distinction between a CVA and a newco, it can become quite complicated but at the end of the day, from a creditors' point of view, there is maybe no difference"
"it can become quite complicated"? So? Or in Duff & Duffer's case, they can make it very complicated.
"from a creditors view", limited his argument immediately
"maybe no difference". Maybe??? Is there or isn't there a difference?
A really weasel statement. Trying hard to convince us there is logic in his decision. When anyone starts with 'I am a solicitor by profession', you know he is going to bluster and bullshit. We will judge you Johnston on what you do, not on your job title.
Having a look at the financial state of Kilmarnock http://companycheck.co.uk/company/SC006219 we can understand why he is so desperate to avoid any short term financial pain.
Kenny Shiels in today's Sun talks a different game.
The Rugby Park gaffer pleaded for children in the town to come and follow a club where bigotry and prejudice don’t exist.
This club is free from prejudice, racism and bigotry.
“We’re a West of Scotland club with no baggage. If you’re a good parent and want to bring your children up in a way where they understand good values and also morals, they can come and have a fun time and enjoy it here.
“It doesn’t stink of external influences and if those parents want to send them to Kilmarnock, it would be a very good choice, I’d have thought. I want us to be better, bring better people into the club and go on in a better manner.
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Hasn't it all gone quiet, though? IMHO, I think the SFA and SPl are just letting financial nature take its course. In due time, the money at Ibrox will run out, Captain Green and the Mysterons will head back to the Lonely Planet, RFC will simple implode quietly and disappear up its own ar$ehole with barely a fizz, and the SFAPL can sit back and say "nothing to do with us." That way, the Orcs have no-one to vent their anger on and they'll be left stomping up and down Broomloan Road and Paisley Road West fighting with each other, like the Big-endians and Little-endians in Gulliver's Travels, over which retro team shirt will make most on Antiques Roadshow in 50 year time.
Agree with your assessment.
Doncaster's silly pronouncements just don't make sense. It smacks of the SPL trying to hide in the bushes allowing someone else to do the dirty deed. There will be informal exchange of information between the SFA and SPL, so the SPL clubs will have a good idea of what is coming.
Of course we want clubs and authorities to do the right thing, but when you are the named individual doing it, I would imagine it makes you think twice.
Upsetting the Rangers faithful is not to be treated lightly. Look at the Kilwinning 2, the evil aimed at Miller, never mind the odd brick through a window or a stabbing here and there. Over shadowing all of this is the BBC programme to come. Bit like General Custer and the battle of Little Big Horn. (or is it the battle of the Little Big House). Locked inside with nowhere to go, surrounded by indians with arrows being popped off, even from the diddy indians. But we are all now waiting for the tribe who douse their arrows in petrol before they fire them. This will be led by the BBC. Then I would hope the SFA, HMRC and with any luck the police would dive in behind them. That way no one person or organisation can be fingered.
At this point most of Custer's signed players will rush out the back door.
I can see the next month being a fun filled and exciting time.
Meanwhile as the Little Big House is surrounded and attacked, the succulent lamb tribe will be hiding in the hills, watching, trying their best to make sense of it all. They will however emerge a few months later as writers on military strategy and how they won the Battle of Little Big House.
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From the articles of association for the SPL
Club means the undertaking of an association football club which is, for the time being, entitled, in accordance with the Rules, to participate in the League;
League means the combination of Clubs known as the Scottish Premier League operated by the Company in accordance with the Rules
Rules mean the Rules for the time being of the League
Nothing in these Articles shall relieve any Member of the Company from its obligations as a full member club of the SFA to comply with the applicable articles of association of the SFA for so long as it remains a member of the SFA. Each Member shall (in so far as it is lawfully able and permitted by the exercise of its voting powers to do so) procure that the Company observes and complies with all relevant articles of association of the SFA applicable to it.
Just providing these as a little marker.
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Doncaster on reporting Scotland - is the guy trying to fcuk up Scottish football? He bsically said he doesn't understand what fans are pissed off at. Vote of no confidence anyone?
Not sure how Doncaster sees his role, or more importantly how the board sees it.
From their articles
64. Subject to the Memorandum and the Articles the affairs of the Company shall be managed by the Board subject always to the provisions of Article 66 and to directions from time to time given and policy resolved upon by the Members in General Meeting.
and the one referred to - 66. The Board shall not determine a Reserved Matter without the prior approval of the Members in General Meeting.
So Doncaster as one board member (without a share) should really just be presenting the views of the board.
After the total abuse of the governance responsibilities of Rangers directors, I would have thought the SPL would have been obtaining legal guidance step by step as they decide what to do. They must adhere to their own articles. They just cannot tear them up.
The problem is that the board members of the SPL giving Rangers as easy ride in whatever legal form they will exist may be at odds with the articles of association of the SPL, which after all is a company registered at Companies House with all the associated requirements.
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[/quote
I probably average about 8 - 10 games a season at RP. I can categorically say that if there is no Rangers in the SPL next season then I will buy a season ticket and one for my son.
Thanks just ties in with my post.
Most interesting part is 'your son'. And I can understand exactly why you wouldn't want him to experience some of the stuff the bluenoses get up to.
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Yeah kind of, I am thinking of buying my first Hearts season ticket if Rangerd go down the plug hole since the club will need the money and the backing of the fans. I am not buying one till I know what happens.
I do go to quite a few of the games already so it might not make much of a difference though.
I think you are stating here what many football supporters are thinking. I for one would now never go to any game involving Rangers (or Celtic either). Have been in the past but it is just such a thoroughly foul and unpleasant experience. There are many I know who feel the same.
Getting Rangers closed down would meant the first season would have a slight increase in attendances. Yes increase as many would return. Subsequent to that it would become clear that going to a SPL game is not like going to a potential war zone and families would start to return, policing costs reducing and the SPL product would be more attractive to sponsors and advertisers.
After all what advertisers believe they want to influence the buying patterns of overweight foul mouthed slobs who chose not to wear a shirt in mid January?
This is what the SPL clubs should look at when they sit down to decide their futures.
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You seem to misunderstand.
Its the diddy clubs who don't need Rangers.
Celtic most certainly do.
Without Rangers your club faces a long slow death. Your club's success depends on exploiting sectarianism. Without Rangers there is no sectarianism. Without sectarianism there is no Celtic.
The end is nigh.
You might be right. But one thing you can be sure of, the death of no other club will as publicly humiliating and as rapid as will happen to Rangers.
But I do agree when you say the end is nigh.
Let's talk next weekend and see how we are all getting on then.
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i always thought big greigs job was pr at ibrox ,much like the greeter at asda what the fk would greigy know about what was going on lol
He passed the examination for the Asda job, and then they told him he had to wear a green uniform.
Maybe time to bury your pride John.
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Who was it who said "A verbal agreement is not worth the paper it's written on?"
Sam Goldwyn
He also said
"I don't want any yes-men around me. I want everybody to tell me the truth even if it costs them their job."
Or was that David Murray aka Craig Whyte?
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Can't beat a verbal agreement!
If he actually does take Whyte to court then this could really drag on.
There must be money to be made from it.
King said: "The criticism of me is fair, but John Greig and John McClelland deserve the utmost praise for hanging around as long as they did in the hope that they could somehow make a contribution.It was only once they had become completely isolated that they resigned in the hope that this would be a catalyst for greater scrutiny of Whyte's actions.
"I know how gutted they both were - they are unsung heroes to my mind and all Rangers fans should know that they put the club first at all times."
(Translation: Greig and McClelland could make a contribution = did NOTHING even after they knew what was going on
Hanging around = taking the money, saying yes Craig, hoping nobody would notice
this would be a catalyst for greater scrutiny = things are too hot for us here John. )
Unsung heroes and quite rightly so
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Campbell Ogilvie as current president of the SFA is in a position of importance and influence in Scottish football.
While he was employed by Rangers he personally benefited from having an employee benefit trust (EBT).
I am sure he earned whatever sums were put into his EBT. The main issue is whether he benefited from paying less tax.
Given his current position with the SFA, would it not make sense to contact HMRC to say 'I have paid less tax than I should in the past. I would now like to pay back what I owe you."
If the large tax case goes in Ranger's favour in the future HMRC would pay him his rebate. (They are amazingly good with rebates now in my own experience).
We need leadership in Scottish football at this critical stage to demonstrate morality and ethics. Now is the time to show it.
This is a step that Scottish football, the wider public, Scottish and UK Governments would acknowledge as the right thing to do.
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Listened in (ever so briefly( to Traynor on BBC radio. Some callers talked about football on the park.
I couldn't listen. How can you talk about football when Rangers have done what they have done. Everything becomes a fraud or corrupted.
Until it is sorted, then football itself is meaningless.
Over to you SPL especially and the SFA (and the police).
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If the Cup Final is boring you can always watch some guys trying to kill themselves. Scary.
Only until about 5pm today.0 -
Looks like Leggy is on speed today; he just keeps repeating himself. And what the fvck is the last bit about?
http://leggoland2.blogspot.fr/
So Lloyds had nothing to do with forcing SDM's hand to sell the club to the conman? Just gets murkier by the day. Sometime in the distant future somebody will wade through all this pigswill and will write the definitive book about it but by that time nobody will remember who or what RFC was.
Of course Lloyds didn't get directly involved, they are too experienced and too smart to know how to avoid the risks.
The technique is to have a wee word in Sir David's ear. "Faff around with getting our money out of Rangers and we will screw MIM" " Understand?". "If you don't play ball, we will send Leggoland around to your cosy pad beside Murrayfield Golf Course."
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Chic Young "I have been told this exclusively" " you heard it here first" is keeping up his self penned image of the man in the know.
First with the breaking news, the journalists the big guys trust especially Sir David.
The reality is somewhat different.
http://www.thescotti...kill-gaffe.html
"Paul McBride was a good friend of mine." the idiot said.
We await his latest accurate assessment of the goings on at Rangers with some excitement.
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Alison Robbie @AlisonRobbie "Charles Green says contract with Craig Whyte to take his #Rangers shares will terminate if CVA can't be agreed"
This was already suspected but good to get some confirmation. Means Whyte will likely be making more than a £1 profit after all!
Gawd no
. Will this mean Whyte being dragged through the courts again as Green tries to get his money back.0 -
Re-Dingers 'confirmed bachelor' status. Is that code for fat ugly c**t or gay?
Well done , you get 2 points for being doubly correct.
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Enough of this depressing speculation about punishments and investors: let's have a mini-game instead.
My sources lead me to believe that Graham Spiers glided into the Waitrose on Byres Road on Wednesay evening for a spot of retail therapy. Your task - if you choose to accept it - is to guess the items on Biege Corduroy Man's shopping list. If it's any help, his mood on that evening was described as 'less than fluffy'. Green dot for the closest/best answer.
Mouthwash?
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18 people in the trust?
The names of the other two are Mazen Houssami who appears to be a lawyer for a property company in Dubai and Jude Allen (real name Javed Abdullah) who's in the Indonesian hospitality business.
I always thought that when a lady is described as being in the 'hospitality business" it is a journalist's code for something else
Just like when Mark Dingwall is described as a 'confirmed bachelor' we know exactly what they mean.
Other terms that are euphemisms for something else when dealing with Rangers.
Entrepreneur = robber
Experienced businessman = has already robbed people
A billionaire = flash lifestyle, but no money
Consortium = more than 1 opportunist (also known as a gang)
I value this club's traditions = I am going to rip off the supporters
I am being honest now = I am lying through my teeth
This is the best thing for the club = this is the best thing for me
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Season tickets to sell in the next couple of weeks
Really must buy one. The staff in the ticket office must be bored rigid, so anything to help makes their lives just a wee bit more exciting.
Can I just check on a few things first.
Where will the home games be played?
What players will be in the team/squad?
What league (if any) will Rangers be playing in?
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Only until about 5pm today.
Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
Of course HMRC will chase the individuals. This is why I am surprised that Campbell Ogilvie (SFA President) hasn't voluntarily paid the full tax on what he received through his own EBT.
Must make it easier for himself and would show some worthwhile leadership.
I can see some personal bankruptcies coming of all this.