thelegendthatis
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Posts posted by thelegendthatis
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Edit: I just noticed that P&B has a "General nonesense" Section - shouldn't P&B move any talk of Rangers including this thread from the SPL Section and put it there in anticipation of Season 12/13?!?!?!
You will have to ask the moderator and 'owner' of the general nonsense forum about that.
So I would suggest you just PM No8.
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Comments today about FIFA being in discussion with the SFA http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18294684
Excellent, I see a solution emerging here.
The SFA will have to hit Rangers hard, very hard, on the ultimation from FIFA. An 'or else' request. The SFA will be sympathetic and understanding to Rangers (or as Jeremy Hunt would put it - with a heavy heart), but they must enforce this for the survival of Scottish football. So probably expelled for at least one year.
FIFA will stand by their guns aggressively.
The SPL won't have to make a decision which suits them fine.
As thanks for their cooperation Scotland and the SFA will get some sweetener from FIFA, maybe hosting a competition? And a few fair play awards. A vice presidency for someone?
Can't be sure what instigated the FIFA interest but I am sure we should thank some Pie & Bovril posters who have made a point of communicating directly with FIFA and UEFA.
Also thanks due to Duff & Duffer in taking their case to the Scottish Courts, which opened the door for FIFA to take a direct interest. We should also recognise the total ignorance from Duff & Duffer of the implications of their action. Some will call it ignorance, others stupidity, others laziness.
And finally those whose help made the case possible, namely the Rangers Fighting Fund. Without their funding the case it could never have gone to court.
Overall a very good day, one which brings us much closer to the endgame.
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The fighting fund was supposed to be paying off the smaller creditors. Not sure how that went but quite a few have been paid in full.
In other words, you haven't a scoobie
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Do you really think the SFA will want to be held responsible for killing one of only two big clubs in Scotland and turning goodness knows how many people away from the game forever? I'm not saying they (or rather the tribunal) shouldn't but I just don't think they'll be bold enough to make a decision with that type of implication. They'll play it safe and ban them from the cup for 1-3 years.
I really think the SFA will want to punish one of only two big clubs in Scotland and turning goodness knows how many people back to the game. I'm not saying they (or rather the tribunal) shouldn't but I think they'll be bold enough to make a decision with that type of implication. They'll play it reasonably and ban them from all football for 1-3 years.
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Is the P&B Consortium's offer not still on the table?
We're maybe closer to being the new owners than we'd really like.......
Yes it is still on the table, and as Duff & Duffer would say 'we are very optimistic our offer will be accepted. We have all worked very very hard pulling all this together as it is a complex deal but we are close to agreement, real soon now'. That quote is a code for any other bidders to p off.
Our 'fighting fund' comprises £13.75 (sterling) 27 euros (thanks to big Malk just back from a week in Spain for that) and lemonade bottles worth £8.5 million. We have had these independently valued, but Duff & Duffer are saying they are only worth £3.48. What planet are these guys on?
If they accept our bid, which I am confident they will as we are putting in about £30 more than Green, each creditor will get at least 6 lemonade bottles.You should see the heap for HMRC
No need for creditors to ask to see the colour of our money, it is "let's see the colour of your lemonade bottles"
I call this a win-win.
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Bored with No 8's coat tail dragging, so thought reading an annual report would be more exciting.
From Duff & Phelps http://ir.duffandphe...l-reportsAnnual copy below from 2011 report.
Note 4. Acquisitions
Acquisition of MCR
On October 31, 2011, the Company acquired certain assets of MCR and its subsidiaries, a United Kingdom-based
partnership specializing in insolvency, turnaround and restructuring services ("MCR"). The addition of MCR
enhances the Company's global restructuring advisory capabilities and expands its presence in Europe. The
acquisition included 126 client service professionals, including 19 partners and directors. Its results have been
included in the consolidated financial statements as part of the Investment Banking segment since the date of
acquisition. The Company's Consolidated Statement of Operations includes $4,726 of revenues from MCR and an
operating loss of $246 from the date of acquisition through December 31, 2011, respectively.
Subject to the completion of a working capital settlement, the fair value of the purchase price totaled $41,738 and
The cash paid at closing was funded from existing balances. The fair value of the 714.314 shares of the Company's
Class A common stock was determined based on the closing market price of the Company's Class A common shares
on the date of acquisition. The sellers have the ability to earn up to £4,625 (approximately $7,400) of consideration
DUFF & PHELPS CORPORATION AND SUBSIDIARIES
NOTES TO THE CONSOLIDATED FINANCIAL STATEMENTS
(In thousands, except per share amounts)
contingent upon certain revenue and gross margin thresholds to be achieved in equal installments on the first and
second anniversary dates of the closing. The Company estimated the fair value of the contingent consideration using
a probability-weighted discounted cash flow model. The key assumptions used in this model were estimated by
management, not observable in the market and considered Level 3 inputs within the fair value measurement hierarchy
which required significant management judgments. The fair value of the contingent consideration will be
recalculated each reporting period with any resulting gains or losses being recorded in the Consolidated Statement of
Operations. No such gains or losses were recorded during the year ended December 31, 2011, as there were no
significant changes in the range of outcomes for the contingent consideration.
In addition, the sellers and certain employees were also granted certain retention incentives in conjunction with the
closing of the transaction. These amounts total $9,672 and comprise (i) deferred cash payable on the third
anniversary of the closing of the transaction contingent upon certain conditions which include employment, (ii)
restricted stock awards which become non-forfeitable on the third anniversary of the closing of the transaction
contingent upon certain conditions which include employment and (iii) consideration to non-equity partners
contingent upon certain revenue and gross margin thresholds to be achieved in equal installments on the first and
second anniversary dates of the closing. These amounts will be expensed over the requisite service
So when buying MCR the forecasts of business were based on estimates from management!!!! Which are 'not observable in the market'. So ambitious figures provided which were not supported by reality.
Sellers which I assume will include the partners in charge of Rangers will get additional dosh (£5million at stake) if they achieve certain figures on turnover and gross margin. Hitting targets each year over 3 years. First target is October 2012. But they have lost money since October 2011. Which means the pressure is on them to maximize their return from the Rangers administration.They also have to stay with the company for the 3 years to get the money.
Explains why they agree one thing with Whyte (keep it under £500k lads), and then when they get the gig they milk it for all its worth. Currently on £3.5million (or was a week or so ago), so now about 4, probably can hit £6 or 7k by the time they count the votes, have meetings with whoever is available and talking to the press at length.
Maybe someone more skilled than I can read more from the annual report.
But at least we are understanding their drivers to milk it big time.
Everybody is making loads of money out of Rangers, it is just sometimes not clear exactly how, but eventually we find out. In David Murray's case it took 20 years.
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Your post is pish and wholly inaccurate so you can go f**k yourself...In the politest possible way of course
Thanks No 8 for your constructive comments.
You may think your views aren't welcome here. But don't worry about it. We are happy to discuss ideas and opinions with bigots of all flavours, listen to blind prejudice from wherever it comes. I am sure it helps us understand your problems (deep seated as they may be).
Given you can write in understandable English and even punctuate correctly, better you stay here rather than on RangersMedia. It is important we keep the postings there for the properly uneducated NEDs. Allowing them to keep on giving
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We should ask Ranger's super duper lawyers. They've been chock full of good ideas this week.
Do they still have licences to practise
? I'm amazed. I know the SFA isn't that sharp on fit and proper decisions, but I would have thought the Law Society was a bit more on the ball.
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Childish drivel.
It would be good if you explained why it is either childish, or drivel.
Or do you prefer the ascendancy view?
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We talk here about registering players, Rangers going to court, how good or useless the SFA is, but there are some basic truths to consider which in an ideal world would be the basis of any decision about Rangers.
Rangers I am sorry to say are just evil, a stain on society.
Their presence at a sporting event is the closest thing you can get to a BNP rally. Travel on public transport before or after their games and you are confronted by the foul behaviour. Who wants to sit on a train and listen to a mobile ring tone which is the sash including the F the Pope shout at the end?
Charities created on the back of the Rangers stain, such as Nil by Mouth - a kid murdered for wearing a Celtic top Cities going into lockdown at the hoards arrive in blue, even for friendlies for God's sake.
UEFA having to step in to penalise their repeated offensive and violent behaviour. How Rangers ran their business to their own set of rules is consistent with everything else they have done.
No 8 in his usually reasonably polite way, still personifies the arrogance that sits alongside fascist behaviour so easily. And the most dangerous part is that the Rangers faithful still think they are behaving normally, and the blame always lies with someone else.
If you don't think Rangers is a fascist organisation have a look at http://www.rense.com/general37/char.htm It talks about Governments, but many common themes.
Closing them won't make all this go away, but sure as hell it is a good start.
The rest of us are 'the people'. Not Rangers.
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That's true and i apologise for claiming the Rangers lawyers are better than the dundee supporter. It was just an assumption on my part.
Rangers lawyers are confident they would have won their case in the European courts...Shame we will never know.
Do Rangers (in administration) still have lawyers on their payroll?
If so why?
Are they working at the behest of Duff & Duffer? Given what they tolerated/turned a blind eye to in the Ibrox 'data rooms', you would need to be naive to accept any advice from them. Duff & Duffer are many things, but naive they ain't.
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Boyce was Cliftonville chairman, if memory serves me right, so is obviously tarrier tainted at the very least.
Boyce will be no friend of Rangers. Just read his words at the bottom of the article.
"Pet hates?
Political bickering, bigotry and sectarianism. I think people should realise that they only have one chance in life. To have seen the destruction, the murders and the people who have lost their lives over many years is something that I condemn outright."
Rangers and their fans have been guilty over the years of all that is highlighted.
Let us hope Boyce as vice-president will explain to the others in FIFA what Rangers have brought to the game and society.
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Article by Tom English. Apologies if already posted
Yes, very good article. Not usually a big fan of Mr English but this cuts through the smoke and mirrors of Green's bid. How on earth he ever got close to preferred if not exclusive status is beyond me, unless of course he .......will leave those thoughts to later.
What is it about Rangers that attracts people like Green? The names change, it's a different colour each time but the methods are the same.
Murray, Whyte, Green, add to that Dave King, Paul Murray, Bill Millar, Ng and you get individuals you wouldn't buy a second hand car from. There are many businessmen who are straight, honest and successful. They you get the 'successful businessmen' who are usually worth millions, billions or even off the radar in their wealth (according to the red tops). Are they hell. What they do have is an ability to borrow money and use that to exploit situations and people, for their own personal benefit.
Fit and proper person test? Anyone who wants to buy into Rangers is immediately by definition, NOT a fit and proper person.
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Well, he'll be putting more money in than TBK or Whyte and it will be very much at risk. By structuring the purchase as a loan, however, he can take a security interest / floating charge over Ibrox and other assets. That means that if they get the CVA and subsequently go bust again he can recover some of the cash by being first in line for the proceeds of sale.
By the way, since it keeps cropping up, the BTC amounts ARE included in the CVA. If it goes through, HMRC can't come back and try and extract cash after the judgement - the CVA specifically makes creditors wait until the BTC is resolved to get paid.
The first paragraph is the same business model used by Craig Whyte.
Well yes the BTC is included in the CVA as one of the options. One of the many many ifs buts and maybes.
Assuming HMRC win the BTC they won't come back, unless something else is unearthed as the detail comes out. Liquidation is a preferred option as it will allow a proper liquidator to be appointed who will do a through job of chasing the money.
This lot seem to be just the people we need
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Our forensic and litigation support experts have considerable experience of acting in commercial disputes, fraud and financial investigations; professional negligence actions; asset tracing and money laundering investigations; competition and regulatory enquiries; cartel and corruption investigations; and matrimonial and personal injury actions. Whether the proceedings are issued in the High Court, Criminal Court, County Court or in International Arbitration, PKF (UK) LLP has the experience to advise. Whether a local dispute with a contractor or employee, or a multi-jurisdictional investigation, PKF (UK) LLP has the resources and experience to react quickly and cost effectively to assist in resolving the dispute.
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Desperate? Aye the thought of missing out on the Scottish Cup has me breaking out in a cold sweat
:lol: No problem No 8. One at a time
Miss out on Europe, then the Scottish Cup. After that the mickey mouse cup, then the SPL, then even Division 3
I can't wait, I am sooooo excited.
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Essentially, Rangers are paying for the failure of the SFA to do their job as regulator properly. The SFA intone that the directors 'must have known what was going on'. Well they did. John Greig, John McClelland and Donald McIntyre all resigned from the Rangers board in October of 2011 citing that the had been excluded from corporate governance by CW. Now, when your FD resigns then, to most regulators, that is a red flag.
So what did the SFA do? Yep, you got it, SFA.
Having failed, somebody had to pay. Yep, that somebody was Rangers.
Well yes the directors did know. Now Whyte is a wee guy, a bit sneaky looking and wouldn't scare me yet when these Rangers legends were aware of what the wee chancer was up to, they ....how can I say this.....they WALKED AWAY.
Stay and fight for what was right, for honesty? For the club they loved? For the Club that paid them well, very well? NO. They walked away.
No need to blame anyone else, when you have already named the guilty parties. (plus a few more you didn't name)
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-18255386
Any comment Mr Salmond? Time you stood up and spoke up about Rangers.
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The SFA can stick to their guns and simply ignore the verdict. Nothing Rangers can do about it.
Or they can thank Lord Glennie for his advice, and then sit on it. Taking a tip or two from Duff & Duffer they can stretch out any decision for a couple of months (at least).
Meanwhile they can take on the dual contract scandal, given the facts confirmed by 'Honest Billy' Dodds. http://scotslawthoug...-a-smoking-gun/
Enough information can be obtained within a week to move to expulsion. This will make the transfer embargo irrelevant.
Meanwhile HMRC can start to give the carcass a good kicking.
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You don't get it do you
The TV deal is reliant on FOUR Old Firm fixtures...If Rangers are in the bottom 6 then there will be only THREE!! I don't want to have the God given right to finish in the top 6 but the clubs in the SPL agreed to this deal with Sky TV....Not me.
Do you get the point now? All clubs will lose out financially if this were to happen.
I admire your blind optimism No 8, but do not be so condescending to others considering why we are here, and why this thread exists.
Your club thought it was pretty smart, to the extent it went beyond being smart, to creative, to dodgy, devious, cheating and lying through to being downright illegal. (If you ask for the evidence I won't answer you for 3 months or so
.)What your club did devalued totally every other club who played against them in any competition, and corrupted those very competitions.
Your club is still following a path of self indulgence and preoccupied only with themselves with no consideration at all for others. Nor even any pretence of admitting they did anything wrong.
At the start of this saga I wanted a clean Rangers to come back and play what I would say is their rightful part in Scottish and even European football. (I have friends who are supporters of the club
) Now I want them wiped out - totally.McCoist has threatened the consequences of Rangers being penalised too much.
You should not underestimate the reaction from sporting people generally, and not just in Scotland if Rangers are not penalised heavily from ALL quarters for their wrong doing.
We will not walk away.
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I notice you leave out the part where I reply to the accusation that the OF colluded, because of course the jealous diddies have moved on.
The wee teams are just like welfare claimants really ... expectations of entitlement to other people's money.
Truth hurt did it ?
I will agree with whatever you want, as long as you go away.
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Sorry to intrude in the 'are you a real prod' intellectual discussion.
Useful analysis from MLM Solutions.
http://mlm-solutions.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/rangers-fc-hmrc-and-cvas.html
The punchline at the end is
"However, taking into account the foregoing analysis, it is clear that the Company has never been able to meet HMRCs conditions for accepting a CVA in the recent frantic months and it would prudent for those involved to anticipate HMRC rejecting the proposal."
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Maybe that's because the other teams jealous of their popularity and finances wanted half the 'gate money' at Parkhead & Ibrox .... money that doesn't belong to them?
In the interests of 'fairness' then
Every team gets to keep their home receipts - fair
Every team gets to negotiate their own TV deals for their home games
Every team pays a fee for the SPL administrators and SFA. (makes them independent),
Cup games are split (less admin costs)
Above board and fair ...
But you know that's a non starter as the only games you could guarantee to sell to TV would be the ones against Celtic or Rankers.
That's a fact ,....
Away you go. We have moved on totally from that OF nonsense.
If you are that bothered why not just go and play Rangers in whatever league they are in. You can play each other every week.
Anyone who ends a comment with 'that's a fact' knows quite well that it isn't.
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No, these meltdowns by Rangers fans are a clear indication that we are getting closer to the end game. Nothing has really happened today except for a couple of wild rumours, there has been nothing which has happened to cause them to disintegrate in this fashion.
It's what has not happened that has got them worried, and us diddies pointing out what that means which has got them on the verge.
No CVA announcement happening means they are awaiting the CoS verdict to see if they have got anyone to invest money to the CVA pot. It has come out that this court case regardless of it's actual outcome will signal the end for Rangers because the SFA will be forced to act against them due to their obligations to FIFA and UEFA. They have seen themselves move into a position where they have check mated themselves. All the rest of the news is just rubbing salt into open sores, it's a great time for Scottish football.
ETA-
I wrote this before reading about Billy Dodds offering his services as a witness in the BTC. Something has happened today, something huge. Not sure if Doddsy is about to turn queen's evidence or just stupid (I'm sure someone will make the meme for that, I cannae be ersed)
The absolutely fantastic thing about this Rangers story is it will have multiple end games.
First one will be the entity which is the football club and their ability to play or otherwise.
Then the stage when the rats will be running in all directions clutching their EBTs until the big size 11 of PC plod stamps on one of them.
Then the clean up begins of Rangers, its offshore companies, its transactions.. But before you clean anything, you need to know here the dirt is, so it will be follow the money!. And the courts will be full for months if not years. Duff & Duffer will still be administering something or other, still missing deadlines, and promising good news tomorrow.
And then those who should have done more will have to step up to the mark. Bit like the Financial Services Authority doing nothing about the banks. But heads will role and new controls put in place.
Will I live long enough to see it all through?
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Scientists actually discovered the existence of a 'Protestant gene' a couple of years back, it usually presents in an extra reddening of the face and causes the carrier to be more prone to bouts of permarage.
and if they hear a drum beating, they start marching with shorter steps, lead with their shoulders, and frown aggressively. Not a pretty sight.
Just to check I found this
note it is the Big Man leading the parade, closely followed by the big Woman.Some of the burds marching are pure class.
Count the wheelchairs.
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Big Rangers Administration/Liquidation Thread - All chat here!
in Celtic v Rangers, Rangers v Celtic
Posted
Gordon Smith speaks http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/gordon-smith-i-d-have-stayed-at-rangers-for-free-1-2334170
Offering to stay at Rangers for nothing, and claiming he could have been a creditor means he was actually paid.
For what? Nobody seemed to know what his job was.
Medium to long term strategies? Anyone who claims to be putting long term strategies in place knows they will be out the door before anyone can work out what they were really doing.
Can I also confirm I have NOT, repeat NOT been approached to be director of football at Chelsea or Man City. Just like Gordon hasn't.