SGMilne

Agreed with the above posts. I don't think anyone could argue that there weren't a good number of quality players in the United side last season; it was the balance, lack of grit and the goalkeeper situation that did us in. Each of the signings we've made so far has looked to address those problems. Goodwin has said he believes that the attacking options are looking ok, and I would agree. Fletcher, Watt, Middleton, Chalmers, Glass, Mochrie, Cudjoe, Niskanen, Fotheringham, Macleod, Meekison are all forwards or forward thinking midfielders who other teams in the division would have in their squads. That's not bad at all. Behic too if he stays. So for me if he's making 3 more signings in, it has to be a goalkeeper, another centre back and maybe another anchor midfielder.

If we had a competent goalkeeper I don't think there's any question we'd have stayed up. There were individual errors across the board, but none as often or more costly than from the goalkeeper position. I'm not saying we'd have finished way up the table, but he's been culpable in enough games that there'd be a 6 or 9 point swing easily.

To be fair, you're omitting the fact that Motherwell made a fair number of signings in the transfer window, which closed just a week or so before Kettlewell took charge, while United brought in one. Your point about how our squad has players most teams outside the Old Firm would love to have is true, but together they do not amount to a good team, and I doubt anyone would have had us better than 10th, which is literally only 4 points above where we are. United this season has been a perfect example on how not to recruit a team. Talented individuals most of them may be, but there's zero fight there. It didn't go unnoticed to any United fan that Calum Butcher signing for you made an impact, because he's exactly the sort of player a team needs. We have none of that, not a player like KVV.

I'm ok with it. During the shitshow on Wednesday I was raging at how poor the performance was and felt he needed to go, but at some point, 3 managers in, you've got to say "It's the players who are at fault first and foremost". Post-match, he impressed me because he's the first person to come out from United this season and say the recruitment was shite and that he knows what's needed to fix it. Now that in itself shouldn't be particularly impressive and it's being said at a point where he has nothing left to lose, but at this point, it actually does come off as impressive. You've got to ask yourself if it's better to create instability again, have another fresh pair of eyes come in and then only start to make transfer moves from when he first sees players at pre-season, or do we go with the guy who is in, let him get on with it from first thing on Monday morning and create some consistency. I get Goodwin is a bit of a laughing stock from fans of other clubs because he hasn't exactly had a great season at his two clubs but he at least appears to have the correct ideas and hopefully is capable of learning from mistakes. On top of all the players out of contract, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of players leave in short order, especially ones who other clubs will be interested in (Behic, Fletcher, Levitt, Niskanen - don't laugh, I know of at least one club who tried to sign him in January but couldn't get the work permit, Erikssen) and I wouldn't be surprised to see an A-League club take the worst player we've ever had back across to Australia. So if we sign correctly - sign experienced, hardened pros - to then allow some of our younger players get a consistent chance at first team level (Chalmers, Mochrie, Fotherigham, Meekison, Graham, Duffy, Hutchison, McLeod) - we might actually get to see some enjoyable football next season. Watt, Mulgrew and Djoum may be a hard sell though...

United's defence mean that we could lose to anyone, because we're certainly not scoring freely.

I forgot we've also got Declan Glass - who'll be 23 next season - signed up to another year with the club in spite of him not being good enough to get a game in the Irish league or at Cove Rangers. And Tony Watt...

I suspect he'll be away too. As an individual he's not a bad player but he's been so wrong for the team. He's not a left back even though he was signed as one, and although he has tenacity, he's not really a winger/midfielder either.

How has he been this season for you? And what position has he played? Always saw him as a number 10 but he got punted out to left wing for us a fair bit.

That's true. Can't assume we'd just come straight back up, even though the league would in theory be a lot weaker than the ones we previously played in. You're still looking at a squad including... McMann, Graham, Behic, Freeman, Niskanen, Sibbald, Djoum, Chalmers, Meekison, Mochrie, Anaku, Middleton, Fletcher (who may retire), both goalkeepers (you have to assume they'll be paid off though), Levitt, Fotheringham, Thomson, Cudjoe. I think that's it but I might be missing someone. If i was asked how many of them I'd want in my starting XI in the Premiership next season, I'd say Levitt It doesn't make for good reading.

I'm now at the point where I'm resigned to relegation, either direct or by playoffs, and I'm trying to comfort myself with the knowledge that the squad is in such bad shape, it might actually be better for us to go down, use certain players who might be good enough to be effective in the Championship while their contracts run down and then come back stronger. I don't want us to go down of course, but with limited funding and the majority of that squad still contracted to next season, it might mean there are some more enjoyable matches...

I'm an eternal optimist, but that's done it for me today; it feels like we're doomed. And we deserve to be. Regardless of what league we're in next season, the squad needs absolutely gutted, yet very few players are out of contract. So it's going to cost a lot of money. I usually type a lot more...but I just can't be arsed now

There's been a lot of criticism of us using a data-driven approach, but actually, that's not a problem is people use the data correctly. Sadly, we haven't had that for some time. Quite simply, we've got people who have no place in recruitment in charge of recruitment.

Warning: I've read it back and this is a bit rambling, so forgive me I understand why Goodwin fielded the team that he did last night because if he wanted everyone to have a fresh start then he had to play his captain and his player/coach. That's fair enough, but the measure of him will be if he learns from what they delivered. You can't play Edwards and Mulgrew together ever again. In a two, they both get exposed and in a three, the man out to the side - Edwards - gets exposed. Neither can cope with anyone running at them and it results in goals conceded. If Edwards had been the man in the middle, his performance would probably have been ok because he wouldn't have been exposed like that. Mulgrew can play in a back 4 - he did ok with Ayina against Saints other than his part in that goal - but Edwards can't. Edwards can only play if he's the central man in a back three. So for me, that's the end of the road for Edwards barring any injury crisis. The other major tactical change that's required - and Goodwin hinted at this in his post match interview - is that someone with legs needs to play alongside Fletcher. I thought Fletcher gave everything last night, and though he should have scored, I can understand why he didn't, considering how rare it is that he's been given opportunities in front of goal recently. People seem angry that a guy who has largely stuck to a 1 goal in 4 games scoring record throughout his career has scored pretty much 1 goal every 4 games for us. If United signed him to score goals then it shows how incompetent our recruitment team is. Oh...wait He's up there to win headers and to flick it on to someone else. That's what he brings. We need Anuka playing off him. Barring individual errors, I was impressed with the team last night in as much as they worked hard, closed Aberdeen players down and gave as much as they could. As Goodwin said, giving everything is the bare minimum you should expect out of the team though, so maybe I shouldn't be impressed? It's just night and day compared to what we got under Fox. The other thing that impressed me was that we showed some urgency and directness. Instead of stopping and passing sideways or backwards, crosses went into the box and passes went in front of the receiver to run on to. Again, basic stuff, but an improvement. But it'll count for nothing if we ship goals at one end and spurn opportunities at the other.# Is there a magic formula of players on our books that will do that? I'm just not sure. It all comes down to what a horrendous job Revolution GSC and in particular Tony Asghar and Sean McGee have done with recruitment. Fair enough, individually, most of the players we've signed are good players and if we're honest, most of us prior to mid-August looked at the signings individually and thought "ok, fair enough". As individuals, each of them - barring the goalkeeper - would be welcomed into most other Premiership squads. Even the worst ones like Liam Smith are being touted for moves to St. Johnstone etc. But together, they amount to one of the worst teams/squads ever assembled. Bad Goalkeeper x2 Slow centre backs x3 Fullbacks who can't stop crosses x2 Wingbacks who are not natural defenders x3 Moderately skillful attacking midfielders with little to no pace who would ideally be played just behind the striker x12 Established forward - was x3, now x1 Attributes missing Pace (in any position) Willingness to run at players (Only Pawlett, Niskanen and Behic) Tackling in midfield Centre back with any acceleration (maybe Ayina?) Wingers Look at how many of the same player we have in midfield, and that includes players we've put out on loan. Harkes, Djoum, Levitt, Pawlett, Sibbald, Meekison, Fotheringham, Chalmers, Mochrie, Glass, McGrath and Middleton are, by and large, the same player in terms of profile. They don't have much pace, they would be best played centrally in a 4-2-3-1, they can't tackle or break up play effectively and with the exception of Pawlett, they aren't comfortable running at players. None of them are wingers, none of them are strikers and none of them can play that anchor role in midfield. How we have ended up with so many of the same player astounds me, especially considering we've had to put so many of these guys out on loan at various points. Next season, relegated or not, we'll still have 9 of them on the books (although Fotheringam will get a new contract) as well. So how do you make a team out of that? Is it that you go... GK: Hamid (when he gets here) DC: Ayina DC: Mulgrew DC: McMann WBL: Behic WBR: Niskanen MC: Pawlett MC: Harkes MC: Sibbald ST: Fletcher ST: Anaku/Middleton I'm not sure where certain players like McGrath or Levitt fit into that, but I'm at the point where Harkes and Pawlett seem the better options, and they were guys who we needed to replace and improve upon this time last year. I'm struggling to see how we get out of the mess we're in with the players we have, and whether we stay up or go down, the fact that so few of our players are out of contract (Edwards, Smith, McGrath and Harkes I think are the only full 1st team squad members who are coming to the end of their deals) it's going to be a very costly process making it any better for next season either. And yet all eyes are on Jim Goodwin to sort it...

Watching the highlights again just reinforced a few things we've all been saying for a while 1) Mulgrew is finished. In fact, he's way beyond finished. We should do everything in our power to get him out of the club this week 2) Edwards is not a captain. The guy has the heart of a mouse and when the chips are down, he - as he has done many times this season - is the first to chuck it. 3) Even if points 1 and 2 weren't true, you still couldn't play those two together because of their lack of pace and the lack of protection in front of them. So you see a lot of comments that people feel sorry for Fox because he's out of his depth and the players aren't trying. I don't feel sorry for him because I - an 'uneducated fan' if we're holding Fox to some standard of what qualifies someone to be a football manager at United - can clearly see that as a problem, as I'm sure everyone else can as well. He could have gone with literally any other combination of our centre backs and it would have done better than Mulgrew and Edwards, but he didn't spot it. Shame on him for failing to spot something so obvious. He's not gone yet, but you've got to believe that he must be away today or likely tomorrow. Are we relegated? No, not yet, but we 100% will be unless we make that change. Who comes in? Genuinely almost anyone would do a better job. People slate Yogi Hughes at every opportunity, but he'd get more out of this lot than Fox. But then so would anyone outside of the currently coaching staff.

Kuate was pantomime stuff, Gunning was incredible but it didn't make a difference in the end. This guy ruined a lifeline comeback within about a minute and then pretended to be hurt. If Mulgrew has a part in it, it's a very small part. The boy had plenty of time to just boot it, but he made that decision to take a touch (and to pass to Mulgrew in the first place).

I've never been so angry with a United player as I was with Birighitti today. What an absolute coward. Fucks up (twice because he shouldn't have passed the ball to Mulgrew in the first place) and then went down "injured" to save face. His teammates were raging with him as well, and rightly so. He can never play for us again, surely? And it's time for Fox to go to. I've heard from multiple sources that he's a lovely guy and he's well liked, but to be honest, does that matter if he can't win games and fails to light a fire under a team who look scared to take the ball forward?# He's got to go, and Asghar has to go with him. Plus point today was that Kai Fotheringham looks like a good player and we'll hopefully see more of him from now on.

Pretty high I think. You just know when it's got past the point of no return and today was it.

Elements of the Asghar interview were right. As I've argued, the managers who have left have left because of the reasons he noted in the interview, and it shouldn't be used as a stick to beat the club with. But other parts of it were just way off the mark. We are extremely light up front, and that's made worse by Fox clearly not rating Anaku. I've got a bit of insight into the Lewis Neilson thing, and I noted he used his words very carefully when asked if United did things with the correct process. He said they did it as per their understanding of it. Those are not the same thing. And while Fox may have been the easy choice, I fail to see how he was the outstanding candidate. Which brings me to today's awful performance. I tweeted a reply to someone at half time who had asked how Ayina played, which said For me it was clear that if he continued down the path he was on, he'd get sent off. And he duly was. But Fox didn't see it and that's unreal. I thought Fox did pretty well for a month or two earlier in the season, but that's because he tried out a new tactic and it caught teams off balance. Sadly, it's no longer a new tactic and other managers - better managers - have sussed him out. And he can't seem to deviate from his own script. When you are a goal down in a cup game and have most of the play, why not make changes? What is there to lose? But as always, he just stuck with it. Three like for like changes - including the Anaku one with was far too late in the game - and no move to alter things like set piece taker (Middleton never beat the first man all day). He is out of his depth. So do you sack him? That certainly seems to be the obvious answer, but if Asghar truly believes that he has something about him and wants to keep him, then give him some support. Pay an experienced manager who is likely sitting at home unemployed or is in semi retirement to come in and help him. A failed lower league manager, a player coach and Dave fucking Bowman, who has never achieved anything other than to lower his golf handicap while on our payroll are not the people to help. For what that would cost, the risks are far outweighed by the benefits.

Today proved a few things to me. 1 - VAR is the shits 2 - We clearly have good players in the team and on the bench 3 - The manager is the problem We've all sat back and thought "Aye, but Fox doesn't have a great bench; he doesn't trust them" and he managed to prove himself wrong by bringing in Niskanen and Pawlett who were our two best players. If you play a team who run at the ball and attack - even if they aren't your best 11 individuals - it can work. So today the team did so well, then Edwards got sent off for a decision I thought was incredibly weak. The team held on and held on while the manager did nothing and we lose two goals. His final role of the dice was to take off the best player we had on the park for Macleod, leaving an absolutely gubbed Middleton on the park, and also forgo making two other potential changes.# The man has no Plan B. If we go down - and I really don't think we will but we might and that's the important thing - it will be because of his inability to make effective tactical decisions from the 60th minute onwards.

When you get to the point of people unfurling banners demanding you have to go, then it is time to go. It's just a job, and certainly isn't worth the hate he's getting. But that being said, I've always felt bemused by the amount of hate Tony Asghar has gotten from the online Arab community. You would be forgiven for thinking some people hate him more than they love the club, and there's one guy on the Tek forum in particular who has a seriously unhealthy dislike for him. All because he didn't think he was very welcoming at hospitality. I want to preface this by saying that I'm not a 'happy clapper' or a 'lanyard wearer', I've never met Asghar (I walked past him in Sainsburys once, if that cements my pro-TA agenda ) and I'm not happy with the recruitment this season at all, but having said that, I think that on the whole, things have been ok up until the disaster of this season in terms of league position, getting into Europe, signing players that show ambition, trying to get a good ethos into the club, a more serious commercial agenda etc. The one thing that has been poor all the way through the Ogren/Asghar reign has been quality of entertainment from the product on the pitch. It's been brutal. But you read things like how he's responsible for 5 managers in 4 years leaving because he wants to control them. This isn't true. Neilson happily worked for the guy and then left for a better paid job at his favourite club. We'd all do the same. Mellon was a panic hire because they needed a manager in quickly and he was punted because he played awful football and wasn't well liked (I often spoke to people at the club who didn't like him). Why Courts left was a bit of a mystery, but Ross was sacked because of a calamitous run. Did any of them leave because of him? Probably not. The next thing you read - in a similar but different point - is that he only appoints inexperienced managers because he wants to control them. Of his four hires, two were experienced and two are/were inexperienced. Jack Ross in particular fits the description of the sort of manager people who actively hate Asghar want in the job and he was a disaster. There's no science to this folks. They say he makes the signings and the manager has no choice on it. Categorically untrue. I don't think as DoF he really sees the bigger picture of what's needed, but he definitely defers to the manager when signings are made. They say he's responsible for not making any noteable signings in January. I'd say that was Ogren, who unlike received wisdom would suggest, isn't some distant prince who has been trapped by evil Tony and doesn't get a say. He's an experienced businessman ffs. They want Craig Levein even though Levein was a massive failure as DoF at Hearts. But they trust him. He's a football man who is qualified to be a DoF when an agent who never played the game isn't. For me it simply boils down to some people simply not liking the cut of his jib. They don't like him and they don't trust him and that's fair enough, but just say it; don't use arguments that aren't true to justify it.

I'm usually positive in my outlook but that was absolute garbage tonight. I've given Fox praise when it's been due, but tonight he deserves to be slaughtered. I don't consider myself a master tactician; I've never played football professionally and I just don't get excited by the intricacies of football tactics. However, even I can see how playing three incredibly slow centre backs together at the back and an old striker who doesn't move too much up front means that there will be huge gaps for the opposition to exploit. Result? Killie have something like 700 attempts at goal. Absolutely fucking basic stuff. The only positives were Macleod and Pawlett. Pawlett gets a lot of flack but unlike the rest of the midfield he actually gets the ball further up the pitch rather than passes it sideways or backwards. We do have a game in hand and we are fortunate to gave good form at home and a team on the same points as us in absolute freefall, but we are currently bottom. Massive alarm bells should be ringing and if I was Mark Ogren, I'd be seeking expert advice from someone to come in and assess what's going wrong. If it's Asghar - and for all the criticism he gets, I'm sure most of it is because the hive mind have simply decided they don't like the cut of his jib - then he should go. If it's a coaching thing, then that needs sorted. But something has to change.

Ah well, at least we managed to sign a right footed centre back He might be shite but on the other hand, he might do ok. If he's got the physicality required then that's at least a start. We've seen enough young players from English teams come up here on loan and not succeed to know that it's likely the boy isn't going to be a huge success, but then again he could be a diamond like Curtis Good. I wanted a centre back, a central midfielder and a striker. So far we've only got the centre back. Whether we get the striker in on a free quickly is the next question. Leave it a while and you end up signing shite like Max Biamou or a player who takes months to get fit like Eddie Ofere. It's really not ideal. I'm happy enough Watt is gone. Even that interview on Sky at St. Mirren made him sound like a nightmare to manage. That being said, ideally it would have been outwith the league, but then player power is king and if the choice was a player the manager obviously doesn't want, who is likely our highest paid player, sitting on the bench and causing disruption, or getting him out to a club he's willing to go to, it's probably the right call. Personally, I think the mistake we've made - if we weren't absolutely confident of signing another forward - was loaning out Logan Chalmers again. If you assume Fletcher will start games up front supported by Middleton and Harkes/McGrath, having Chalmers on the bench would have been a good option. So, my positives from the window are... 1 - We've kept Behic 2 - We've recalled Kai Fotheringham, who has done a great job at Stirling and would benefit from exposure in the first team 3 - We've given plenty of young players an opportunity to play first team football in the SPFL 4 - We've signed a right footed centre back, though the jury is still out

Today showed how important it is to have some dig in midfield against better sides, because without it, they just run through you. That being said, general attitude is light years ahead of the 9-0. With Watt away, that hopefully brings in cash and frees up a big wage, so United need to be clever in the transfer window.# I'd say maximum we'll bring in 3 players. So a goalkeeper just isn't priority. Right sided centre back (with Smith going back to RWB and Freeman being dropped) Central midfield enforcer/leader Striker.

I think we expect too much of young players and indeed put too much pressure on the managers to play them. Occasionally you'll get a youngster who comes in and makes a position his own, like Gauld or Souttar, but that doesn't happen that often and certainly hasn't happened too much since they both left. The likes of Meekison, Mochrie and Glass all made their debuts at a very young age; younger than someone like Stuart Armstrong who popped up, almost out of nowhere when he was a few months off of turning 19. Johnny Russell went on various loans and only made a dent in the first team 3 years after his debut at the age of 20 or 21. With Goodwillie it was even longer. He only became a first choice for us in season 2009/10 after making his debut in 2005/6. Even the likes of Appere and Graham, who did make a splash at first team level, did so only when they become physically capable of handling it. None of the young players on our books are currently good enough to take the spot from Levitt, Harkes or McGrath, as much as we'd like them to. Mochrie when he's played for us has looked totally overwhelmed and scared to do anything, Glass has some skill but doesn't do any tracking and there's a reason he rarely gets off the bench when loaned to clubs playing at a lower level, Meekison is good but needs more game time at that lower level. The one player I thought was going to kick on and become a first team player for us was Chalmers, and I suppose he still might.

Oh yeah, I know. That game still annoys some St Johnstone fans