RedRob72
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Posts posted by RedRob72
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Isn't this the 'golden ticket'?
Edit to add more: This is the outcome I would like. How likely it is? No idea.
I guess we’re back to the issue of whether she can gain agreement on a temporary backstop in Norn Iron. If she can manage that, she can then bin this tired mantra of ‘uniting the country and uniting parliament’. People still won’t be happy but at the point of no return, if it’s still not sufficient to pass through the commons, the move to a second public vote is justified.0 -
Little chance of a hard Brexit and no chance of No Deal now, if May’s re-presents her deal with a solid assurance on the Back Stop and it’s still voted down, then surely a 2nd Vote is the only remaining option. The Tory Brexiteer Rebels might even yet, have done us all a favour, a retraction of A50 and they would be largely responsible. That would be some achievement.
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Something really spiteful about Sian. I really don't like her.
Don’t think she needed to go down the ‘I haven’t had anything handed to me’ route. In reference to the other’s (Camilla & Daniel) parents.
A bit underhand and uncalled for.1 -
Just caught up on here, wow exhausting stuff!
Gonna go for May to gain a sufficient/acceptable margin to hang on, but 90 votes supporting the No Confidence motion. Your prediction..?1 -
Give an example of her bias then.
Think he might be giving you credit for a subtle reference to her Boycott-esque slant?0 -
On the subject of power and who has how much...
Did Theresa May actually quote that? “There will be no place for Scotland at the Brexit talks” or did she say we will negotiating on behalf of the U.K. as a whole. There’s a bit of a difference no?0 -
My views on independence changed because the EU referendum confirmed how irrelevant Scotland is in the Union.
It's that democratic deficit that needs to be addressed.
This. If it isn’t addressed, a Win for Yes in a 2nd Ref is a shoe-in.
The often repeated claim that a vote to remain was the only cast iron guarantee for Scotland remaining in the EU has proved to be nonsense. It will sway many ‘soft’ Unionists without question.0 -
Our top notch and well prepared negotiating team at the first meeting.
I don’t know how that wee w**k Davis, has got the brass neck to stand up in the commons and complain about how the government is failing in its negotiations with the EU. You’ve had your chance ya wee shite, button it. Honestly, the barefaced shameless cheek of it!![emoji47]1 -
I thought this topic was about when the next sepref will not be called.
Aye, you’re probably right, it has spilled over a wee bit from the EU/Brexit thread, but ultimately it will still have a significant bearing on a 2nd Indy Ref (if and when that happens) if Scotland has been dragged out of the EU and suffered as a consequence.
It becomes an open goal and an easy tap in for the YES movement.0 -
Bankrupt. Emergency bail outs from the world bank, planned power cuts etc.
Them were the good auld days......according to the Brexit mob.
Indeed, the U.K. has seen a solid record of growth and inward investment over the time span of its EU membership, and is still the leading recipient, in attracting Venture Capital funding across Europe. (according to KPMG), despite the uncertainty of Brexit.
Why make this more difficult for ourselves, as a ‘Business’ it’s a crazy move.0 -
Whit? We had full employment before we entered the EU and now we have structural unemployment and precarious terms and conditions.
As for efficiency our productivity is terrible.
In what sort of state was Britain’s economy, before it joined the EEC?0 -
We continue to have a huge trade deficit with the EU who still account for almost 45% of our total export market, it makes no sense whatsoever to have expensive and fragmented tariff arrangements with each separate member. Outside the EU, Trade arrangements on ‘services’ on which we are increasingly reliant are unpredictable and difficult to manage. Why the urgency to disrupt an arrangement that has help to transform the UK economy in terms of employment, inward investment, efficiency and competitiveness? Walking away without any future agreement in place, would be reckless and irresponsible for any administration.I wasn't trying to have a dig with the game theory thing, a lot of people won't have heard of it. May has played this completely wrong. Do we trade with the US? How is this possible? We aren't in a federal union losing our sovereignty.Trade with the EU is mutually beneficial and will continue to exist regardless of Brexit. High tariffs would punish German exports (as an example) as much as they would ours.
But I'll put this to you, what is the future for this country if a democratic referendum isn't respected? What next? Do we do away with all votes? Do we just rely on those in high places telling the little people what's good for them?
I don't think those calling for a second referendum quite grasp the consequences if this were to happen.
Yes there’s still much to challenge, in how the EU operates but I feel we have a much better chance of tackling that, by working & influencing from within, rather than just shouting over the garden fence.
I, and millions of others don’t believe that an accurate picture was given on either side of the debate leading up to the Ref, with many of the claims and promises since proven as false and hollow. It would be undemocratic NOT to review that decision now, and certainly not acting in the best interests of the Country. We simply can’t get this wrong, a 2nd Ref is an extraordinary special measure given the circumstances on this vote alone.
You didn’t respond to my second point, of how dragging Scotland & Northern Ireland out of the EU against their will, shall provide much additional leverage to those who seek to break from the U.K. but perhaps that doesn’t concern you? If that is the case, then fair enough.
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I think your attaching a greater level of trust and morality to the remain side of the conservatives (Theresa May included) than is deserved. The handling of this has been farcical and I don't for one minute believe this has been anything other than intentional in order to reverse the vote.
If you're familiar with economics you might have heard of this already, if not give it a Google. "Game theory". It'll quickly become apparent just how wrong the handling of this has been.
We need to get out of the EU before it's too late.
Game theory isn’t anything new my friend, but I think you’re over complicating things a touch.
If May has seen an opportunity to intentionally reverse the decision here (unlikely), then I’m not giving her enough credit. If she can counter the insensible decision to leave our biggest trading partner, then I’m all for it. Finally if she can remove the certainty that the U.K. will disband permanently following Brexit with Nationalists securing and winning a 2nd Ref in Scotland and the eventual unification of Ireland then she will have the support of most true Unionists.0 -
Considering the result of the initial referendum has never actually been carried out then yes, it's quite undemocratic.
So what's the standard for referendums going forward? Don't get the result we want, fanny about and make a cluster f**k of it, have a re run of the referendum, get the result we want? Really? Is that the precedent you want to set? Dangerous.
The difference here is that the elected Parliament has found itself completely unable to deliver on the result. The problem being that leaving the EU has proved to be a FAR more problematic and complex issue that could ever have been envisioned by Politicians and the Public alike.
When the only alternative at present is to walk away without a deal (which very few people seem to want), I don’t think it’s undemocratic to ask the electorate to reconsider our withdrawal based on the current position, not at all. In fact, surely it’s the most sensible thing to do.1 -
Melvyn Bragg on Brexit from Politicshome.com
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/house/house-magazine/99904/%E2%80%98who-f-does-he-think-he-%E2%80%99-broadcaster
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/house/house-magazine/99904/%E2%80%98who-f-does-he-think-he-%E2%80%99-broadcaster
Apologies, does this take you through?
It is a couple of weeks old now, but gives a pretty good summary on the Brexit positions on both sides of the house.0 -
Melvyn Bragg on Brexit from Politicshome.com
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/house/house-magazine/99904/%E2%80%98who-f-does-he-think-he-%E2%80%99-broadcaster0 -
Corbyn prattling on about May failing the people of this county, his preferred option remaining in a SM/CU. That isn’t what the ‘people’ voted for either unfortunately. The chances of a ‘soft brexit’ are long gone. Completely dishonest and disingenuous from someone who is a long-term EU opponent. Given that he would be unlikely to win a Vote of confidence against her, he can pretty much say what he likes in opposition without really believing it or having a realistic chance of having to deliver it. A shameless, duplicitous shyster. At least May was open about her support, in wanting to remain in the EU.
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The Girl in The Spiders Web, film adaptation of the book by David Lagercrantz. Definite steer towards a James Bond caper, but still a decent watch. 7/10
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The government are no longer in power.
This is truly pathetic cowardice.
I’m not sure about cowardice, does Sturgeon mean that’s she’s lacking the courage to follow her convictions, on something she doesn’t really believe in? I’d imagine the easy thing to do would be to press ahead with the vote, lose it by a distance and then hold her hands up, admit defeat and resign saying that ‘she’d tried her very best’ to deliver what the country voted upon.
She’s done the most sensible thing to halt this f*uckin mess and not simply hand it over to someone else. Abdication of responsibility and duty might be cowardly, her surprisingly stoic determination to see this out isn’t. If she can somehow manoeuvre this towards a 2nd Vote and give the electorate the opportunity to overturn our withdrawal and retract A50, will Sturgeon still be calling her a coward on f*ckin Twitter??
I’m no real fan of Teresa May, but I don’t see ANYONE else within the Tory ranks, or indeed on the opposition benches who would be able to take up the reins and deliver on this, within the timescale required without a second Ref.
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You are aware that it's the traffic on the slip roads job to adjust their speed to merge? Not the other way round?
Yes, she's being a bit of a twat but she's actually not really doing anything wrong in that scenario. There's no rule saying you have to move into lane 2 to 'let people on' so to speak. Sure, the good guys do but not everybody is a good guy.
I see plenty people bombing down slip roads these days assuming people will move for them. Or oblivious to the fact that they're actually meant to give way. They're arsehole's.
I got the impression that by ‘tearing up the left lane’ he meant that she was undertaking cars in the middle lane by going inside them, rather than overtaking in the the 3rd (Right Hand) lane. In which case it’s not only dangerous but incredibly stupid especially passing a junction slip road. The amount of pile ups you see on the motorway due to driver carelessness and exactly this type of driving behaviour! Jeez1 -
What I would really like to see is Labour win with a tiny majority and then having to rely on SNP support to actually govern.
That scenario would be an easy ‘sell’ for the Tories in England to block it from happening.0 -
Rather than losing the vote and the possibility of resigning (then a No Confidence Vote triggering a GE) she has nudged a 2nd Vote even closer. Surely that’s good news for those who wish to reverse the decision to leave?
Sturgeon labels May a coward but I’m pretty sure she would have accused her of being obstinate, stubborn and pig headed had she blindly gone ahead tomorrow. May cannot satisfy the majority of the house, going back to the electorate is her only option now, assuming she wants to remain as PM.0 -
English MPs are running scared of the xenophobes. The vast majority of MPs think Brexit is an irredeemably idiotic act of national self-harm, but they continue to appease the racists due to some misguided combination of the self-preservation instinct and outright cowardice. Labour’s position on this is more convoluted than a contortionist with his head lodged firmly up his arse.
Exhibit A; the following article (a conversation between the supremely rational Stephen Mangan and Emily Thornberry, who like many in the Brexit debate have been cowed into saying almost the opposite of what they believe).
Inane utterances of shadow foreign secretary
She sums up Labour’s Plan B, quite succinctly, there isn’t one!0 -
Leavers who intend to vote remain now will probably be the quiet ones. Like those who voted for Trump or even a lot of leavers originally.
Who are these people who were granted a vote in both the US Presidential and the EU Ref. Surely that in itself warrants an investigation through the Electoral Commission!? [emoji15]0
The DUP
in The Politics Forum
Posted
He’s not saying that he forgot about the luxury holiday, he’s saying he didn’t need to register it, which he clearly did if it was an invite from from the host government. The problem here is that like many other politicians, once elected, they feel (in general) that they’re above the rules and regs that apply to everyone else.
He’s had his nose in the trough again and should just be honest about it. Fat chance.