Gordon EF

For the visit of the club with the most major honors in this tin pot league, it's only right.

I was taking your arguments reltively seriously.... up until now.

The SoSL at tier 6 is going to become a bit of a weird anomaly once the WoSL gets up and going. Realistically it makes sense to me to either practically retain it as it is as some 'South' feeder to a particular level of the WoSL or merge it completely into the WoSL. I can't imagine the bigger SoS clubs would rather go into the current SoS setup rather than a WoSL premier league.

Personally, I'd like to see us re-jig the SPFL structure into three larger leagues but that's mostly because I find 10 team leagues dull. Whether we have 42 clubs in 4 tiers or 3 tiers isn't really materially different is it? League size aside, what real arguments are there for or against having one extra or one less 'national' tier?

Travelling time / cost is an argument that's there if people want to make it. It's not really related to the point I was replying to though. I highly doubt it was the potentially marginally higher costs that are putting clubs in financial difficulty. Especially more central clubs like Raith and Cowdenbeath who could actually face slightly more travelling costs in a regional league, depending on which teams are where.

Oh I've no doubt all these arguments are coming out because of a particular agenda but some of these idiotic points are bafflingly persitant. The league structure, particularly at the sort of "top of the semi-proffesional game" is absolutely not there as a primary driver for producing top players, improving the national team or helping Scottish clubs be more competitive in European competition. It's such an utterly inane thing to think. You can pull all sorts of examples of countries who do things completely differently in terms of league structure, some of which ar succesful, some of which aren't. Uruguay, a country with a smaller population than Scotland has 16 teams in the Premier division, some of which are semi-proffesional and cannot even host games against the bigger teams at their own grounds. And their national team has had incredible success for a country their size. Is that an argument for a 16 team premier league in any way? No. The league structure is primarly about creating an entertaining and meangiful competition with sporting integrity that allows clubs to progress and find their own level in their own way.

Is this something we see only or more often among the twenty clubs at tiers 3 and 4 in Scotland though? You'll find Scottish clubs at tiers 1 and 2 who overspend, you'll find examples of Scottish clubs lower down the structure overspending or junior clubs who do. You'll find clubs all up and down the league structure in England (and every other country) who do it. Without proving this is something we see significantly more of among semi-proffesional clubs in national leagues in Scotland because of the league structure they're in, then a few random examples that you think seem to prove your point are absolutely meaningless. Also, does anyon beleive that Raith Rovers wouldn't have overspent if they'd gone into a regionalised 'League 1 North' instead of a national League 1? If anything, it might even lead to larger losses. The idea that these clubs would say 'Ah well, we're in a regional league now, better cut the cloth accordingly' is utterly deluded.

Ask exactly the same questions of every single club currently in a 'regional' league in Scotland. Edit. Andy Robertson started his senior career with Queen's Park in League 2. Of course it's ridiculous to use that as an argument for or against the current set up. But one world class player in th epast 30 years is one more world class player than all other leagues in Scotland put together.

Yep. Basically it's been an utterly farcical situation to have two parallel league structures in Scotland for so long where there's roughly similarly sized semi-professional clubs split across both grades. All the work that's gone into creating the pyramid structure has been surprisingly excellent but it doesn't hide the fact that, on a longer time scale, there's been a ludicrous amount of intransigence and parochialism on both sides across Scottish football when it comes to leagure structure.

Yeah. Sounds like the capability to segregate is required but segregation in place at every game obviously isn't a requirement.

If they can get to 16-16-16 (8 additional sides), that makes sense. If it's more then regionalising or conferencing at tier 8 makes sense.

Talbot are entirely welcome to keep charging 2 bob for their games whichever league they're in. Away games will get more expensive and further to travel to if you make it the SPFL but the majority of games are still in central Scotland and very easy to get to. And as has been mentioned, you'll be at least a couple of years away from that. Funny how it's mainly Talbot fans who have a big problem with prices and distances. Didn't seem to bother the east juniors too much. They're a weird bunch.

Yes, at the lowest existing level of the current structure.

There's plenty of SPFL grounds where I've never seen segregation or separate catering facilities. None of the four SPFL Angus clubs have ever had these when I've been there for example.

Auchinleck see themselves as special within the junior game and fair enough maybe they are. I'm sure they see moving to the seniors as taking that away.

The EoSFL have to take the decision on league structure that's best for the league. To me that's Premier, First, Second. Any current juniors who wish to join should join under exactly the same circumstances as all the rest joined. Go in at the lowest level and, depending on numbers, 'conference' the lowest level to accommodate.

Aye, conditions weren't great but it was a pretty poor game all round. Agnew played well, the defence were generally solid and Morrison looked very dangerous when he came on. But it was great to get the three points, especially with Airdrie and Montrose picking up wins.

In principle, it is exactly what the clubs who made the jump earlier were offered. Go in at the bottom and work your way up. Kelty could have said two seasons ago "We're surely much better than half of the current Lowland League teams". They'd be right. But they started at the bottom. Because parachuting them in higher would completely go against the principles of the pyramid. If clubs are all in favour of this, let them work that out themselves, fair enough. I'd just personally be against it.

Agreed. 'Zippering' junior clubs in based on some judgement of relative strength IMO is something that should only have been available when the possibility of some kind of more formal and mutual merger of the juniors and the pyramid structure below the SPFL was a possibility. That didn't happen. We're in a position now where individual junior clubs have to make the move themselves. The whole point of the pyramid is that it gives clubs the opportunity to find a level they earn the right to play at. That's a princple that should be stuck to and that means that new entrants should start at the bottom of the pyramid, whatever that level is in their geographical area. The relevant bodies should absolutely not be taking the view of 'imagine how strong the LL could be in a couple of years if we jimmy the rules to let in more of the bigger junior clubs'. Everyone will find their level and clubs will get there once the earn that. I do think more promottion / relegation should be opened up into the LL and into SPFL2 but that's on the grounds of competitive fairness.

Airdrie 2-1 Clyde East Fife 2-1 Peterhead Forfar 0-0 Stranraer Montrose 2-0 Dumbarton

We have developed a habit of having a great start to the season, looking like play-off certainties then crumbling after the new year.

Are you East Fife in disguise?

I'd agree. But I think it's realistic to acknowlegde that a club like Brechin might have particular problems attracting good players if they were to go into the Highland League. Right now Brechin have something more to offer a central belt player above some ot the Lowland League clubs, for example. They'll probably be able to offer a bit more money than most of them and can offer a higher level of football. And that might convince a few players to give up the convenience of playing for a club closer to them. If that changes, Brechin would presumabley find it very difficult to compete with SPFL or clubs in the LL pyramid setup. On the bright side, what Brechin should absolutely focus on in that scenario is attracting the best 'non-league' talent from the Dundee and Angus areas. they'll still be a relatively big fish at that level. So attracting players who're maybe out of favour at other Angus clubs and trying to get together the best local talent becomes an option that could certainly work.

Isn't the situation more that, if you were any good at football, then multiple clubs might make you offers. And once you have the choice, the one that offered you a few more quid and/or a few less hours travelling for away games and/or a better chance of winning a league would be the club you were more likely to sign for?

Kelty certainly have the toughest run in with, arguably, the four toughest games of the season still to play. It'll certainly be a test for them. Should be a great run in. It'll be tough for BSC to do it alough Stephen Swift was pretty bullish about it on the back page podcast a couple of weeks ago.