oldbitterandgrumpy

For the Leavers, who are in constant denial about the UK's place in the world, there will be no need for reappraisal. The 'head in the sand' approach to Brexit means constantly deflecting blame for this self harm to Brussels. Brutal reality check heading towards Middle England very soon. Might even be entertaining.

The lass dressed as a pork pie. Something just a bit disturbing about that picture.

There's been a lot of bitching on here about Jeremy and Theresa's handling of Brexit. Ok, granted, that's justified, they've fucked the whole thing up big time, but, ultimately, what difference does it make? Theresa and Jeremy are trying to get what's best for the UK. Westminster is still Westminster. It's London. They still see the big picture as the UK .And the UK to them is England. Not Cardiff or Edinburgh or Belfast or any other hillbilly town

The Dumb Gammons have a vote. Thick as shit, whatever, their vote is equal to yours.

If only Theresa's handling of Brexit were a sitcom and we could remember it fondly.

Don't hold your breath.

At what point will May stop battering her head against a wall?

Dictating the terms of leaving is the bit I've never really understood. We are leaving their club. It's their club, their rules and we were signed up and committed to them. So now we dictate the terms under which we leave? If I'm being incredibly thick here and missing something glaringly obvious, please don't take the piss, just calmly explain in simple terms what that is. As for the arrogance, bravado etc, that's never going to change.

No shit Sherlock. The whole Brexit campaign, or rather the 'Leave' campaign, was based on raw emotion. Boris's bus, the refugee poster, the Turkish 'invasion' . . . 'Oy, this is a local country, for local people!'. (No irony there eh? you colonialist fuckers). Rational debates about economics and trade deals are pointless with Brexiteers. They seem focussed on borders, benefits and immigration. The heaviest voting Brexit areas are going to be the hardest hit. Sunderland the hardest hopefully. Had the Brexiteers known what was ahead, would that have influenced their vote in 2016? Highly unlikely. If there was a second referendum would they change their minds? Debatable, because emotion is the key factor. The 1950's are where it's at for them. The Empire in all its glory, when England was noble and white (if you could see through the smog). Farage with his beer and fags were just who they were looking for to make their country great again. It's the face of Populism. It isn't particularly endearing or attractive, but it's loud and warmly reassuring to the Brexiteers. More importantly for them, it takes them back to a time when things were. . .well . . . just 'as they should be', even though most of them were still at school or weren't even born at the time, but grew up listening to their Dads stories about the war.

He could, if he tried, learn to STFU, but he has no intention of doing so. He's getting along quite nicely with his 70's nostalgia act and, presumably, some people like it. Been tuning into OTB more often recently and can rarely last more than 10 minutes. The evening show I've completely abandoned since they started that stupid music feature. Takes some talent to make you cringe even when you're listening alone.

And there you go. There's a problem . . . someone solves it. That's all the reassurance the Daily Mail readers need.

They made their point, but please, no more Uni/Art School contributions, Please?

No, actually he was.

Leave out the 'interesting'. It's just depressing.

So he's thinking . . . maybe aye . . . maybe no?

Phew . . . I can sleep easy tonight. I mean, endlessly going round in circles, would never happen here, would it?

But isn't that a Catch 22? I personally am very disillusioned with politics. I find politicians unbearably patronising. I vote every 5 years, express my opinion then watch as things seem to carry on much as before. Ok, Brexit was out of the ordinary, didn't see that coming. But the 'representatives' we put in Westminster to deal with this are dealing with it the only way they know how, ie by shouting across the chamber at each other or forming unholy alliances. There is a system, and that system is long established. It's firmly ensconced at Westminster and known as First Past The Post. We live in what is essentially a conservative country and radical change to the voting system is something the UK is a long, long way from. So, yeah, I guess we do get the representatives we deserve.

Haven't lived in Inverness for about 20 years, so rarely get to Grant Street. Sounds like a Clach thing though.

Enter the Mail comments section at your peril. If they are real, and some of them must be, they are totally beyond parody.

Of course they don't. They generalise. They manipulate statistics. They climb on bandwagons. They basically do what politicians do. Aye, I suppose that is a bit cynical. But trying to explain the benefits of the EU to a Brexiteer or the possible advantages of Independence to a Unionist is an impossible uphill struggle, made all the more difficult in the Social Media age. f**k me, cynical and defeatist. I've got to get out more.

Supporting Clach keeps me sane. And at least I don't live in Burnley. You've got to put up with extreme Brexit shit every day. Good luck with that.

Why should they even make an attempt? In the wonderful age of Social Media, they can, with a click of a mouse summon up as much support in favour of their views as they need. Thereby confirming to themselves that they are right. As for politicians, I suppose there is a need for them. But seriously, would you want any of them as your friend? God, it's so easy to be cynical, I really should get out more.

They were voting to leave. They wanted the UK out of the EU. In a very condensed binary question they chose 'Leave'. However misinformed they were didn't really matter to them. . All that mattered was cutting any commitment to the EU. All sorts of austerity-fuelled hardship and Universal Credit f**k ups were going on at the time, but the magic wand needed to make this country great (and white) again was severing ties with Europe. I don't think their view has changed.