kefc

There will be 2 promotion places although not confirmed yet.

What’s the taboo around money to better a club? What’s wrong with being financially rewarded for success?

At 6:30pm tonight Spartans and Cove will feel the reward for their efforts of winning the Lowland/Highland League as they enter the Betfred Cup Group draw. The exposure of being in this competition and a minimum financial reward of £20k plus is huge for any non league club. Another example on where the Lowland League/Pyramid and the SJFA are in the pecking order in Scottish football. Junior clubs should have been at the forefront of the non league game and pyramid but unfortunately the leaders didn’t want to know and they still don’t which in turn can do serious damage to some clubs the way it’s panning out. How blind can you be.

I didn’t mean for it to come over like that, West have a clear path but some of the big clubs and TJ don’t want it. What happens in the East is anyone’s guess, bolting in under the existing working feeder to the LL in the East, same in the North is the logical answer. A Super Duper League might be another option but it was voted out by the clubs in Ayrshire, where does that slot in within the oyramid and under what rules/ stipulations. There’s loads of working out needing to be done which could take years.

We will go for around the same number, 18 supplemented with the new u20 squad. There’s a bit of investment in running a 20s team so we will utilise it for the benefit of the club, the player and the pathway in place. There will be a bit movement in and out to freshen the squad as we have every season but it won’t be a big turnover in numbers as Cyril stated we currently have a competitive squad.

The SJFA is split at regional club level and going by the actions of the guys running the SJFA they don’t want part of the pyramid or Licencing. What the East clubs want or need isn’t what the West clubs want. The West Premier is a very strong league and can probably slot in at tier 6 in a WOS setup worst case in a few years IF a new WOS isn’t formed, in the East it’s cracked in half with the movement of clubs who see change to a senior club and part of the SFA as a progressive move. Decisions really need to be made for clubs in the East who do want to join the pyramid and the seniors at the highest possible tier. I’d be inclined to think TJ and co as has been suggested in the past has more alliegance to the West setup so some of the East clubs putting their trust TJ have to consider is that going by previous actions change isnt to the likeing of the TJ and Co or your Talbots, Glenaftons etc who are happy as things stand. It could take years to sort and by the time it has been the pyramid will probably have a settled working feeder in the East to the LL at tiers 6 and 7 with a new WOS League formed. Some could be playing a fair bit of catch up as others progress.

Kelty’s GM there has been phone calls taken and we have been honest with questions asked. Clubs that do their research, communicate regularly and canvass opinion with all involved including supporters and have a vote then they should be able to look themselves in the mirror in whatever they choose to do.

Im led to believe they voted on an "agreement in principle" for tier 6, this is what TJ promised his clubs but it failed at the 1st PWG meeting.

I get that totally but where do they come in when the 2 divisions are formed the 1st or 2nd?

A deferred application doesn’t amount to anything other than we shall see what happens in the SJFA. There will be a vote at the EOS AGM on league structures and it’s felt by most that this season will be the 2 league conference to determine league positions for 19/20 and a division 1 and 2 the following season. They can’t make this coming season redundant for most clubs who will be competing to get in the top half next season to get in the top division the following. You could have clubs who may feel the league title and promotion is beyond them playing for nothing just to keep spaces open for clubs that don’t want to commit this season.

Bang on. There’s clearly no sign of any genuine integration from the SJFA and they are being re-active as opposed to pro-active. Oor TJ stated a month ago he never seen this coming, well he wouldn’t being stuck out in his West bubble. I mean really, let’s start a East/West Super Duper League in tier 6 with an option to opt out promotion, keep the Junior cup but we want our clubs Licenced and more Scottish Cup places. We will be happy to take payments from the SFA but we will totally obliterate your pyramid structure to fit us in. I may be wrong but it’s mental. The SJFA have payed the whole pyramid and Licencing lip service for years now and it looks like they are continuing to do so.

it was mentioned at an EOS meeting in terms of having a full on pyramid that they could be on board in time.

It’s looking very very doubtful, the guys running the SJFA setup want things on their terms with their rules. All a bit arrogant tbh.

I think the minutes from the PWG meeting in 2013 shows exactly where the SFA, SPFL and PWG see the pyramid working in time. 1 body, 1 National Non League Cup in a simple league structure. TJ and the SJFA imo have no chance with this, only a fool would pass it. It just makes the present pyramid which is far from perfect as it stands today even more complicated. The logical way would be to get the current West Juniors setup to move over to creat WOS. Merger between the East region Juniors and EOS, regionalised Leagues underneath tier 7. If the SJFA aren’t having that then they can keep their Junior tag and clubs can then have a choice.

Yes

My understanding and possibly TJ has cutely failed to inform the clubs that a straw poll was taken with a simple Yes or No on an agreement in principle for all Juniors to join at tier 6, LL and HL voted No. the only Yes was from the SOS. I believe EOS clubs will be informed of the PWG meeting on Thursday. East/West Super League at tier 6 with no WOS League and already a working pyramid in the East. Seems bizarre, rather than everyone getting on board together for the greater good there’s still this Senior/Junior self preservation divide that just makes it messy. A working pyramid shouldn’t be messy, it’s a simple structure that lets teams find their level with no divides with everyone on a level playing field. This could take years to sort out if that’s the SJFA’s stance. Off the top of my head but Where do relegated clubs from LL go? What happens when Junior fixtures run well into June? Hows promotion worked out? Its batshit crazy to hold onto a grade when the simpler solution is to merge as 1 and get all the regions covered.

Good post and for an example on the social media we had 4550 followers on Twitter the morning of our Lothian Thistle match, by the Sunday we had over 5000. 450 new followers in 24 hours, a number that usually takes 12 months to get. Facebook was the same theme. Im sure Bonyrigg had the same impact on their social media with their Senior Scottish Cup run. Thats the exposure box ticked for us being a senior club which in turn over the season has increased crowds, hospitality uptake, season tickets, sponsorship, community and national awarenes in the football club. By competing regulary in the Senior game and national cup competitions over the years the exposure will rise again helping to market and grow from all angles.

You have every right to your opinion and you have put it forward very well. Not trying to stoke the fire or jump onto any Bonnyrigg debate but whats the difference if Bonnyrigg in 2-5 years were playing in the Lowland League with quite possibly fallen SPFL teams, the top Lowland League teams, the top East Region and the top West Region sides in 1 division with all clubs Licenced, big Scottish Cup Entry , All in a Non League Scottish Cup, Fixture Lists, u20 League, possible Betfred and Irn Bru Cup participation etc Your opinion is I’m sure respected at Bonnyrigg but it sounds all very short term, surely Bonnyrigg and others are looking 3 to 5 years down the line where they can really see their clubs prosper, improve on and off the pitch in turn benefitting the whole Community.

I don’t know about the communication from the SJFA but the PWG meeting will be discussed with it’s member clubs at the EOS meeting next week

Corrected.

I don’t doubt you but Iv never seen it and we got nothing from the SJFA in terms of info. I’m not sure it was doable or agreed back then either as agreements looked to that as though discussions would have to be made on rules and promotion opt out. Possibly paying it lip service like what’s happening now? There is also the proposal of a big non league cup with the Junior name being kept, things we are all talking about today in that it makes complete sense, that vision from 2013 is exactly what’s being spoken about now in 2018. The PWG going by that seemed to have the short, medium and long term plan that looked logical and would have given non league football a boost, the SJFA have resisted throughout until now in that clubs have took things into there own hands. The part at the bottom stating 3 or 4 feeder Leagues would be cumbersome and a preference for 1 body strongly hinted then that the SJFA could be dissolved to create the 1 body and that they wanted everyone on board by 2016. It’s now 2018 and the SJFA have only now due to clubs leaving entered talks, I don’t believe guys running the SJFA want anything to do with it and are happy as they are especially in the West. Reading that link gives even more credence that we and the other clubs have made the correct decision.

You have to wonder why information like this wasn’t distributed to all SJFA Member clubs. Not much change, the SJFA want it their way in that will come over but they have an option to block the pyramid by deciding if teams want to go up and they keep their rules and their cups. Reading that you would think that after the dismissal or paying lip service to the pyramid and the LL by the SJFA then the SFA made the decision to take away the perk of Junior clubs being able to get licenced and all that goes with it. The very bottom paragraph is quite telling and very much of relevance on the state of play as it stands today it would seem.

Im happy to be corrected as im not privy to the goings on but people do speak and there is a general theme that seems to be running right through this even from when the Lowland League was formed. A complete lack of communication and information from the SJFA to its member clubs on the pyramid, some regular information from them you would think would stop posts like mine or the heresay.

Im the same, associations should have got round the table well before know and agreed to a clear plan so clubs know their future, it should have been done after we left. If the SJFA couldnt see that then they have failed imo. Its hard because its 2 different scenarios in the East and West, the West will remain intact (for now) while the East region you would have to say will be dominated by the LL and EOS as arguably the best divisions once players gravitate to play there. It really is tough for the East region as now you have a clear pathway into the pyramid at tier 6 which if thats the way you want to go is great but clubs putting their trust in the SJFA and TJ out of loyalty are putting their clubs at risk by trusting someone else, my gut feeling and from what im hearing wether its self preservation, snobbery to the pyramid and licencing but TJ is taking the stance of some of the top West clubs in that they dont want to be part of the pyramid or licencing and are paying it lip service. Get all clubs on board amicably into the pyramid and alot doesnt change for most clubs, no self preservation and a move for the greater good of non league football, entry prices will still be £6, local derbys will still be the norm, a Non League Scottish Cup (Junior) would be improved and the benefits already spoken about would also be a part of the setup. TJ and co can even run the improved Scottish Junior (Non League) Cup if thats what he wants. In terms of transparency TJ should email all his member clubs the goings on at the PWG meeting held last week, emails were sent to keep them and most put their trust in the SJFA, communication has no doubt been lacking through the years going back to when the LL was setup but it is now vital all clubs are kept up to speed, theres too much at stake here.

As far as I believe it was an off the record discussion by an outgoing Chief Exec, I don’t think the SFA Board knew anything about it.