Che Dail

Agree with both points - and yes, usually you can explain the name as a historic anomaly.

Yes... then the questions start... "so how come....(insert logical enquiry here)..." And then you go "Well, you'll have heard of Linlithgow and Bonnyrigg? They're in the top league, but effectively two tiers below the Lowland League and not connected to it. Yet they're much stronger than the majority of clubs in it. And they're in the Scottish cup because one has a club licence (but nobody else can get one now) and the other won the league..." etc etc etc

If somebody has a 30 second elevator pitch for Junior Football please share here - conversation is usually a highly confusing 10 minute exchange with the other person who's a bit puzzled by the whole thing.

Think they also organise the discipline... Johnstone Burgh very harshly treated this season (and next)

Or rather... Clubs need to show that they aspire to rise to their appropriate level and not content to have their current status protected. Have the Junior clubs and the SJFA got the balls for it? The LL is working, improving every year and is here to stay. No doubt it would be stronger with top junior clubs in it, but up to now the idea of joining has been ridiculed by those at the top. First step to improve the pyramid would be to introduce a WoS league feeding into it and to ensure the Highland league is open to promotion / relegation.

It works in Spain, Germany and Italy, why not here? You can find some good interviews online by Pep Guardiola who is strong supporter of reserve teams being in competitive leagues (but the English FA voted against it). Barca B team can play in front of 40,000 he says...

Keeping everyone happy will be impossible - you can see that changing a massive organisation such as Scottish Junior Football is a big step with concomitant risk... all the best for 2018!

It doesn't have to be overly complicated - if the intention is to mirror the EoS league then you have a ready made example there to follow and copy. They have 4 office bearers from Edinburgh City, Whitehill Welfare, Ormiston and Tynecastle. Their member clubs include league clubs such as Hearts, Hibs and Berwick Rangers. Their Mission Statement and Rules are on the website free to download: http://www.eosfl.com/downloads/eosfl/EOSFL-Policies.pdf There is precedent for colt teams historically (Hibs U20s) and currently the Stirling University 2nd team plays in it with 1st team in LL (not sure if any other clubs object to this?) The league is Pyramid and SFA Licence friendly, allowing a pathway to the Lowland League and beyond. Junior clubs are free to join if they wish, and are also free to leave if they want to do something else. For the meeting next week I can't see how the SJFA can properly represent its clubs without canvassing opinion, especially since many of them don't want to join the pyramid - Linlithgow Rose (with licence) being the prime example in the East. On the face of it there is nothing wrong with the EoS as a route to LL, and it should be reasonably straightforward to get a similar set-up in the West - you'd only need 10 clubs in the whole of the West region, and by the sounds of it you're already halfway there.

Yes - and I'm sure BSC would agree with that too - they've already apologised for the errors and said the wrong draft went out, it wasn't checked etc etc. Just to be picky on a point of detail, it was an email and not a letter - there's something a bit less formal about digital correspondence, and immediate - once it's gone, it's gone - maybe the urgency or 'haste' in which it was sent was something to do with putting sounders out ahead of the SFA meeting on 5th January, the one that NOBODY in Junior football has been consulted on for their views. The BSC 'intent' is big-picture stuff about initiating change and in my opinion the guy should be applauded for standing up and starting something that should've been done years ago by others.

It would depend on what incentives were being offered... If it was going to make me better off in the long term then I'd probably let some missing apostrophes and typos slide...

I'm not sure there needs to be relegation / promotion to and from the Junior grade - many of the club don't want to engage with the pyramid and they can stay where they are - everyone has a choice. So just like the EoS arrangement now, if a club wants to join, it can - and if enough clubs apply then additional divisions can be formed.

Putting typos and forgivable errors to one side, there is nothing wrong with: We are interested in starting a West of Scotland League that will mirror the East & South of Scotland leagues in what is effectively the 6th Tier of the Scottish Football pyramid. This would create a local alternative route for ambitious [West] Clubs. There seems to be significant interest in pyramid in the West region with participation in the SoS league being the main barrier so far. This proposal is therefore a logical step forward. Junior clubs wishing to progress can join the league and others wishing to stay put can do so. I don't think there's a suggestion that clubs would be falling in line behind anyone - this is an open invite for positive collaboration with clubs who are already engaged with the LL and keen to promote it - it doesn't need to be adversarial.

...apart from the fact that because of this tie and the general ongoing fixtures shambles, 6th January 2018 will be Musselburgh's first home game in 8 weeks. A 10 month season and 2 of them have disappeared with no matchday income. If they earned enough with their share of the gate today to pay the bus driver they'll have done well. Sure, it's all about the football and the crowd and everyone agrees the Junior cup is special - but was that defeat today really worth the wait when you add in the cost of their suspensions and fines...?

Great if players can move on to pro clubs, but even promoting youngsters to your own first team is an achievement. One issue in the East is that the 21s league is down to just 5 teams in the league (seriously) because the boys all want to play in the EoS u20s league instead. So you can have a youth pathway to U19s before the players get pinched... Junior assoc not interested.

I suppose at this point it's only fair to give the benefit of the doubt - but following on from what kefc said, why has this not been reported, and why are clubs being kept in the dark and not properly consulted?

Maybe the SJFA have asked for a meeting to discuss initial thoughts from the Pyramid Working Group. The agenda will be to discuss ideas (i) to (iii) referred to in the minutes. The SFA will respond with a 'No' on each point. "What do your clubs say?" No idea. "Pyramid is flawed" Back to the start. (P.S - UNLESS - SJFA proceeds with (ii) below / into SoS and EoS, if that is their intention)

I thaw the minutes... seems things are still frozen: PYRAMID As previously reported, there had been no recent discussions on the structure below the SPFL. To date, the discussions had centred round how Junior Football might participate in the Pyramid, namely: (i) Joint East / West Superleague heading the Junior Pyramid. (ii) Existing Junior Structure, i.e. East and West integrating to Pyramid (iii) Existing East and West Juniors feeding into Lowland League (iv) North Pyramid, i.e. above Tay - no discussions of note to date on this point. A date for a further meeting was awaited. TRANSLATION: Below zero progress, head buried in snow / blizzard

I get what youre saying - I mean people with a professional outlook / mindset - not a cluster of suits sweeping in to sort things out.

... sorry i think you might be missing my point... I was quoting a post about getting the right people on committees to shake up (and change) the Junior leadership... It is very difficult to encourage people to volunteer their time for football - But I'm suggesting that if you get good folk in who want to take a club forward, and they properly appraise the current situation (in the juniors) versus the potential for growth and success elsewhere (in the pyramid) and apply logic, they'd surely be asking what's the benefit of staying where we are?

If every club gets forward thinking professional people on their committees, focussing on performance, growth, better financial returns, proper governance and leadership... do you really the junior 'game' would survive?

You might find there's a certain symmetry about the prospects of both institutions in the coming years. Circulation is so low now that if the Scotsman even exists in 3 or 4 years time it probably won't be in print form. A new owner and radical change in direction is required in order for it to survive... The recent documentary about its 200 year anniversary was great, but evidence seems to points towards it being a museum piece in the not too distant future.

Rule 1: You do not talk about Pyramid.

Fight Club FC

Like Tyler Durden?

This operates successfully in Europe and would add interest to football here - although Hibs and Berwick had under 20 teams in the EoS a couple of seasons ago but discontinued. Would be something to get supporters along even if it is your 1st team against a reserve side. Personally I think it would be another good reason to join the pyramid if pro clubs are represented at that level.