Black & Red Socks

And what in heavens name does his final statement “The Highland League are in the same position as they don’t have a clear pathway into the Scottish League until the bottom team in League 2 gets relegated” mean?! There IS a clear pathway from Highland League to SPFL2.....Cove Rangers are well on their way to taking it - with the bottom team in League 2 being relegated (Berwick Rangers to the Lowland League in this instance) if they do. Bizarre that a man in such a prominent position can come across as being so entirely confused.

I think the nail has been hit squarely on the head here - it would appear that the parochial nature of those who hold the majority sway in the committees of each of the remaining Junior clubs in West Lothian will win the day for a second time. If the chance of making the move to the EoSFL isn't taken this time around and Tier 7 football inside a professional and outward looking organisation secured in doing so then it'll only be Tier 8 football open to them when the opportunity next arises. Continuing to accept deliberate misinformation and incompetence from their own league and association, demonstrably deliberate misinformation and incompetence, makes me wonder if anyone inside these committees has their eye on the ball. If what has been achieved by Broxburn Athletic and by Blackburn United in terms of EoSFL Premier League and Scottish Cup football next season isn't an enormous pointer in the direction that these remaining West Lothian clubs really should and need to be taking then more fool them indeed.

Juniors in at Tier 6 lock stock and barrel the season after next - done deal. When this comes to pass I'll be expecting an apology from you all if, in the meantime, you take any sort of issue with this.

Oh dear. Over and over you demanded an apology to be forthcoming when the time was right and when you were proven correct, but when it turns out you've been proven wrong you don't have the decency to make a proper apology yourself without throwing in a huge dose of bitterness to garnish it. Poor stuff.....and not only have you proved your previous position to be foolish in the extreme you've managed to make yourself look all the more foolish by having a pop at the license situation only for it to bite you on the bum almost immediately. Oh dear - again.

Maybe I'll be wrong, but I think you'll wait a long time for an apology. This locheeboy character was full of opinionated bluff and bluster with absolutely no basis for any of it and arrogantly belittled anyone making the correct observation that rules needed to be followed for the changes he said were a "done deal" to be implemented. It's precisely this type of arrogance and refusal to understand the principles and to compromise, coupled with a blinkered belief that a bit of glad handing here and there would be more than sufficient to make fundamental changes to the Pyramid, that has brought the whole "Juniors in the Pyramid" idea to a shuddering halt. Although consistently and unabashedly demanding of an apology come the moment his own, predicted version of events came about - which they were never going to and, as we all now know, haven't - it appears he just doesn't have the necessary stature or the self effacing decency to come on here and be the one to do the apologising when it turns out it was him that was way, way wide of the mark. Some of what he posted was eye wateringly embarrassing. He can't say he wasn't warned that his eggs were piled entirely too high and in altogether the wrong basket as warned he was - countless times.

My worry for Clydebank is that they were accepted as deferred members of the EoSFL last season but have distanced themselves from that league ever since. Indeed, someone close to the club (okay, in the past the very vocal Kilbowie Benches who has become the all but invisible Kilbowie Benches when things haven’t been quite what he said they were to be) has persistently bad mouthed all associated with the EoSFL and all who pointed out that there was a horrible flaw in the SJFA”s position re the Pyramid. His own position in the Club - whatever it is/was - is surely untenable if they wish to pursue meaningful engagement with the board of the EoSFL?

I know this is only an Internet forum and I know that, as such, it means not a lot and doesn’t necessarily connect with those who make decisions but goodness me, what’s written above is spot on - surely Junior clubs now know it’s down to them to consider and understand that their future is theirs to decide and not for the charlatan in charge of the SJFA to do so? Disinformation will almost certainly now begin to be spread on that charlatans behalf - by the expected posters - because it has constantly been so previously but please, any clubs reading, please, please consider what believing that disinformation has lead you to in the recent past. This really is a seminal moment in the non-League game. For east and west clubs the email address of the EoSFL is easily found.

If a number of the leading clubs remaining in the ERSJFA, particularly those in Fife & West Lothian, were to get together and agree on a strategy to see them apply to the EoSFL then other clubs could very well follow and a second and final mass exodus would see them each fill spots in next seasons Tier 7 conferences that would go a long way to providing them with a semblance of the local football they desire, coupled with the reintroduction of old rivalries with their ex-Junior foes from East Lothian as well as the introduction of new foes in the shape of 'original' EoSFL member clubs. All of this together with being inside a progressive and inclusive organisation. I would have thought this would be a truly enticing prospect.

There really has only ever been one solution and it is the EoSFL, some are taking more time to realise it than others and some might never realise it until it's too late. You can lead a horse to water and all that.

If the news leaking out in the days since the EoSFL meeting with Rod Petrie and Ian Maxwell is to be believed and, particularly, the news of the last few hours that Junior participation in the Pyramid next season is dead in the water then there will be a fair few eggs spread across a fair few faces of those who insisted that the Juniors at Tier 6 was a “done deal”. This mantra was chanted by a number of posters with absolutely no evidence to back it up and neither could these posters point to where in the rules of governance a rule existed that would allow this to be so given the entirely understandable concerns of the EoSFL and the Lowland League, concerns that lead them to reject the idea out of hand - just as those rules allowed for and just as was explained they did on several different posts by several different posters. What has also become clear is that, far from being intransigent, the EoSFL continually offered the olive branch of Tier 6 Pyramid access to the WRSJFA, in its entirety, with negotiations continuing to bring together both the EoSFL and the ERSJFA in an orderly manner to ensure that no unworkable geographical overlap in the east would exist. It seems that only the SJFA were against this and so it has come to pass – as predicted – that the whole ‘Juniors in the Pyramid’ ship was holed below the waterline by their own captain and it has now sunk. Who’d have thunk it? If I were in any way involved with sides in the east who want Pyramid access and want out from under the yolk of the SJFA then I’d be banging down the door of the EoSFL right now for an application form. Similarly, if I were a west club official with hopes of Pyramid participation then I’d be looking to bring together like minded clubs to try and make a WoSFL happen just as soon as possible – the support of the EoSFL seems a given and the SFA would have to listen if all parties were in agreement for such a course of action. It’s up to the clubs now. The SJFA really haven’t communicated properly just what was happening and their member clubs have been badly misinformed.

Progressive and ambitious teams in the ERSJFA, if there are any left, really need to understand that they are being told one thing when something entirely different is happening. If Tier 6 football is in any way to be open to the Juniors in the east then their top league has to be a region wide, 16 team one. Anything else and there is no Pyramid access…..and there is definitely no access to the Pyramid next season anyway if the words of SFA Vice President Rod Petrie, reportedly spoken at an Easter Road meeting with the EoSFL at the end of last week, are to be believed. In direct conflict with the requirement for such a 16 team region wide league, the majority of the ERSJFA clubs themselves apparently want a form of north/south regionalisation with more local derbies as the saviour of their game – but I was at West Calder on Saturday to see the home side take on Stoneyburn in what was a local derby and there could have been no more than 40 people there so, with the best will in the world, I just can’t see how this type of deckchair shuffling is going to provide anything other than diminishing returns. I’ve just read on the Fauldhouse United thread that the likes of them, Bathgate Thistle and Armadale Thistle should consider it a no brainer to move to the EoSFL if that opportunity still exists ahead of the EoSFL AGM in June. I can only agree. Like the poster on the Fauldhouse United thread says, if they all did so a logjam might be broken, others will almost certainly follow and, consequently, local football will be retained but within the Pyramid with the ensuing possibility of upward movement where none exists at the moment.

Unless I'm reading it wrongly, the highlighted part above doesn't make any sort of sense. Participation in the Lowland League requires a license so if, going forward, licenses are not to be handed out to those teams meeting the necessary criteria (and I'd be astonished if that's how it ultimately turns out) then there is no easier route to the Lowland League by re-joining the Juniors for any side without a license as no one in the Junior set-up or elsewhere will ever be awarded a license? Only current license holders moving to the Juniors would benefit in the way you describe.

This is not at all a bad idea and would be worth pursuing if, for no other reason, than to balance the two Tier 7 conferences. May be too late to be proposed though?

If I were a fan of the likes of Whitburn, Armadale Thistle, Bathgate Thistle and Fauldhouse United in particular - all bigger teams locally than Blackburn United - then I’d be asking just why have my club been standing still (or, indeed, been going backwards) when Blackburn have forged so far ahead both on and off the park. For these clubs, small thinkers achieve small things.

If no one had jumped ship last season then I have absolutely no doubt that the SJFA would have continued their opposition to all things Pyramid. It’s astonishing that an organisation that has shown nothing but contempt for the whole pyramid concept now appears to hold the whip hand over what happens next because TJ and Ian Maxwell enjoy a cup of coffee together in their adjacent Hampden Park offices and the former has convinced the latter that the retention of his salary is more important than the proper development of the ‘non-league’ game.

You? I'll say again - why can't the SJFA come out and say that they are willing to negotiate full access to the Pyramid for the west region and will facilitate negotiations between the ERSJFA and the EoSFL to allow them to come to a merger arrangement suitable for all? This is what you and your club and all of the west clubs should be insisting of the SJFA. It is, after all, the SJFA who wish to join the Pyramid at this late date and who should, therefore, be willing to understand the parameters by which they can do so. Such a change in negotiating stance could probably even be achieved without renewing the SJFA's mandate with the clubs as "full entry" would already seem to have been diluted to "full entry minus the North Region" without any recourse to the membership. In this way, the insurmountable issue in the east that is holding back the west is resolved leaving only the lesser problem of disciplinary alignment to be discussed and resolved and, if it can't be, then you can genuinely say that it's the EoSFL and/or the Lowland League nit picking.

But that "full entry" doesn't include the North Region? The EoSFL and the Lowland League have been given a unanimous mandate by their clubs to reject such a "full entry", so it's incumbent upon the SJFA as the applicant body to go back to their clubs and secure a fresh mandate - something they would appear not to have done to exclude the North Region from this pursuit of "full entry".

I believe that they have already stated such at the PWG - but why can't the SJFA come out and say that they are willing to negotiate full access to the Pyramid for the west region and will facilitate negotiations between the ERSJFA and the EoSFL to allow them to come to a merger arrangement suitable for all? This is what you and your club and all of the west clubs should be insisting of the SJFA. It is, after all, the SJFA who wish to join the Pyramid at this late date and who should, therefore, be willing to understand the parameters by which they can do so.

For goodness sake man, are you deliberately being obtuse or are you entirely unable to follow the logic on this? The SFA proposal (and I think most can see that it's a proposal whose seeds were sown entirely by the SJFA) asks the Lowland League and the EoSFL to accept BOTH the WRSJFA and the ERSJFA as feeder leagues to the Lowland League. For the glaringly obvious reasons that have been set out time and time and time and time again for you, this will simply not fly. Not now, not ever. However, should the west clubs/SFA/SJFA come back with a proposal that looks to bring the west in at Tier 6 and below with discussions on an orderly merger of EoSFL and ERSJFA teams to be had? Well then now you're talking. The disciplinary issues - and they are issues as the idea of fining players in one feeder league and not in another is foolish beyond belief - are real for the east clubs, but it would not be beyond the wit of man to find a sensible compromise on this. Why can't you see this and why can't you see that ignoring these realities and choosing instead to bad mouth the leagues you wish to share a pyramid with can only be counterproductive?

The above was posted in the 'Lowland League Relegation' thread and is pertinent here too. For clubs pushing for their Conference titles and the opportunity to contest the promotion spot available to the Lowland League to then, potentially, be denied that promotion spot because they weren't licensed in the proper time frame despite their applications being received, reviewed and passed in good time by the Licensing Committee but consequently delayed due to the couldn't care less attitude of the SFA in rescheduling a postponed board meeting to deal with these applications is an absolutely absurd situation brought about by the complete unprofessionalism and sheer contempt of the SFA board and its CEO Ian Maxwell.

Disappointingly, although perhaps not surprisingly given their lethargy last season, those teams in the east who are south of the HL/LL dividing line and, therefore, able to move to the EoSFL without hindrance seem to have nothing but absolute ambivalence to the idea of doing so. Sadly, they appear delighted at the idea recently floated and - I think? - approved that will see the ERSJFA recast into (very) small, local leagues that, from the outside looking in, makes the set-up look no better than any number of local amateur leagues. Still, it is their choice to make and the scant evidence available would suggest that they are more than happy with that choice. I had hoped that Glenrothes recently applying for EoSFL membership would have focused the minds of those club committees left in the ERSJFA on this being a proactive, measured and ambitious move to make but it appears other Fife and West Lothian teams intend to remain in their own little footballing bubble and drift yet further away from the wider game in Scotland.

I think Cameron's caustic wit might have been entirely lost on you You have indeed presented some important facts, but by merely reproducing minutes that have come into your possession - the rest is your interpretation of those minutes, which may or may not be accurate. However, your constant mischaracterisation of an EoSFL representative who has done more than most to welcome ex-Junior teams into an excellently run organisation and who, almost single handedly, is responsible for driving a whole host of ground improvements at his own club while simultaneously assisting other clubs in their own quest towards ground improvements and SFA membership is grossly unfair. It's a mischaracterisation formed entirely through an interpretation of the wording of minutes, minutes which, ultimately, are no more than someone else's take on what has been said and what is meant by what has been said.

I think the LL position is absolutely nothing to do with self preservation and absolutely everything to do with opposing a complete clusterf*ck of a proposal that has nothing whatsoever to do with the proper structuring of the game and everything to do with expediency and appeasement. It has been said many, many times previously - accepting the WRSJFA in its entirety at Tier 6 and below is an eminently sensible proposition but a Tier 6 league in the east of the country already exists and that’s where the ERSJFA teams should go.....if they are south of the HL/LL dividing line. Anything else is a complete dereliction of duty on the part of Maxwell and the SFA.

It really doesn’t matter what Maxwell has made clear from the start, rules and regulations of any competition have to be abided by and cannot be ridden rough shod over by anyone, regardless of who they are. Any changes to the rules governing the promotion/relegation of clubs to/from the Lowland League have to be agreed to by all affected leagues. It’s quite clear that if any one of the leagues in question reject the SFA proposal then it will not happen - and I understand that both the EoSFL and the SLFL are recommending to their clubs that the SFA proposal is rejected.

But when do you stop creating conferences? Once a conference is created does it stay that way season on season or is a seeded redraw of conferences made each season? I appreciate all we’re doing is indulging in speculation here, but neither of these seem satisfactory- far better to go to tiered leagues straight away (I fully understand that this might be hard to garner support for due to the relegation of teams from Tier 6 all the way to Tier 8) or have one final season of seeded conferences to allow allocation of Tier 7 and Tier 8 places thereafter. This latter model being the one I assume would have to be followed should there either be a merger or an influx of new clubs anyway.