Bundesliga Boy

Whilst not a massive proponent of the Colts idea myself.....I much prefer smaller towns/teams with history meeting that actually means something to the fans, I do accept your argument to an extent about Colts teams. Obviously it wont truly benefit the OF or indeed potentially (if at all) the national team until they have worked their way up. Do you not however accept that, even if you are all for the prospect of the OF Colts, there is something inherently wrong about starting two or 3 levels above the bottom rung....and having to pay clubs off to start at that level in the first place? Yes you can argue its a one year deal.......but if so then why not just start at bottom tier - it's not as if the Kai Kennedy's of the world who has done so well at Raith would be sent to play at Lowland Level anyway. If you start at the bottom you could then make this a potential long term goal of working up the divisions etc without all the furore of sporting integrity and bungs being levelled at both clubs. A bit of 'reading the room' by these two clubs wouldn't have gone amiss.

Funny you should say Macrihanish. It's one of three Campbelltown memories I have. 1) My recently passed dad loved golf and he took (a young me) round Macrihanish course where he played a round. 2) Being young I was captivated by a place called (I think) - The Chocolate Box.....does what it says on the tin.......probably long gone. 3) There was also a cinema....not sure if it's still there. Me and my cousins went to see something like ....Rocket Man back in the 90's. Rock and roll lifestyle I used to live!!!

I'm already eyeing up accommodation for a possible trip there to see a game. Remember going to Campbelltown once as a youngster - not necessarily a lot to do but be great to revisit and catch a game whilst I'm there.

Peffermill is a nice day out, and very picturesque too. Also, when they were selected as part of the Groundhopper weekend, Edinburgh Uni went out of their way to make a whole raft of homemade sandwiches which from memory went down an absolute treat with all the day visitors who were delighted at the personal touch they experienced that day. Kudos all round.

Perfect, thank you.

Ok so that makes total sense, at least to me thus far. One thing though....and don't judge as I've have a long day and the brain isn't quite functioning as it should.........are we assuming that all new clubs will likely meet the ground criteria within the year? Just curious as to what would happen if say...7 did, and 2 did not.......would those two clubs have to go amateur for a season or two before reapplying when ground is up to scratch? Or perhaps they believe only one or two will meet the criteria within a year therefore Div 4 could run for another season, especially if the rumours are true that a further club or two is likely to join the following season. Apologies if I'm completely misinterpreting this.

Precisely mate.

The youngsters that'll be going to the Lowland League will not be the ones of the quality currently on loan at the Championship and League 1 level. They will still be sending guys out on loan further up the pyramid. Neither of the OF Colts believe they have a chance of winning the LL and that is the main reason for that.

Absolutely!

Spot on! And mightily lucky to escape relegation (again) this season.

I just knew that VOL would be behind this!

This whole thing stinks to high heaven, but to be clear, guys of his ilk will not be the ones confined to the LL Colts. Otoo is far too good for a LL Colts side. There's a number of weans, including on loan at Brechin, who aren't necessarily stars in the making. They will end up at this awful LL colts idea. The more adept players will still be loaned out to SPFL clubs. Please let it be known that by me posting this, I am in no way endorsing what took place tonight.......a quick glance at any of my previous posts over past two or three days will clearly show otherwise. I'm merely pointing out that those with real potential will still be put on loan to the Championship or L1.

Exactly what you just said! Would have said it before now but hey, think there's a time delay over here in Kirkintilloch. I've said just about all I can muster on this topic in two previous lengthy posts a couple of days back. I'm just glad I'm not alone in this. GF should honestly hang his head in shame on this. And to voice all his thoughts (which he should be neutral on) prior to the vote.....on a Podcast no less, without even consulting any clubs below out of courtesy.......well......actually no..........just rise above it my son! Kudos to those who genuinely understand and respect the actual definition of sporting integrity. Once again, the fact that they can't be promoted or relegated is completely irrelevant. If it's just about playing games for a year, play in a WOS conference at the bottom tier for a year. Finally, if there is nothing untoward in any of this........why on earth would you feel compelled to pay a combined £50k entrance fee??? If this was all legitimate, surely there would be no need to offer such a bung to sweeten the deal? George Fraser has a LOT of questions to answer. Maybe his mates in the Podcast world will offer him a platform to perhaps explain some of the whataboutery that's taken place this past 72 hours or so.

Sadly you could be right.

In an official capacity to those involved in those leagues though....it appears that step has been missed completely. The Lowland could argue that its a members league, however they must have known it would create massive division/rifts further down the pyramid and they should have pre-empted that by engaging/writing to them in an official capacity to allay any potential fears in advance. Mismanagement on this from start to finish, and as has been alluded to above, an incredible lack of awareness when it comes to reading the room.

Absolutely not, shouting and screaming would serve no purpose whatsoever, but a bit more constructive criticism wouldn't have gone amiss. Multiple times George referenced this being a one year deal only.....which in itself makes you wonder so what's the point. So why when he was asked what comes next after the end of the year and his response of 'that's up to Rangers and Celtic' did no-one see fit to question this staggering contradiction. Why is it up to them if it's only a one time deal. Why not press more on the infamous16 team limit of the Lowland League? (a limit I happen to agree with) Interesting that you (quite correctly) state that any Edinburgh City development side should be directed to the EOS. By that rationale I'm somewhat confused as to why you are not advocating that any Old Firm development side wouldn't therefore be directed to the WOS. Perhaps if they were if could be filed quite nice nicely under a) a point of principle, b) keeping in line with the pyramid, and maybe even c) sporting integrity. Heaven forbid - what an outlandish thought. You also responded to another poster that everyone on here things you are pro this idea. I at no point have stated this, however you have stated that you are on the fence about it. Why? Why can't you respect the pyramid like all the other clubs. The Old Firm are hiding under the notion that everything is ok because they can't be promoted or relegated. That's completely irrelevant! They absolutely shouldn't be parachuted for one (or potentially more - as according to George it's apparently up to them) season as it's completely unethical. As an aside, if they can jump above other leagues just so their boys can get some games in.....maybe Clyde could enter a reserve or Colt side in the Scottish Premier League. Don't worry, they can't win the league or be relegated.......its all about getting the boys some games as apparently that's what's being lost in all of this, so says George. Beggars belief that anyone is ok with is.......or even 'on the fence'. Morals? Principles? Fairness? Heck who needs those eh? We already know the SPFL aspires to none of those......sadly it appears to have trickled down. Take a bow Civil Service Strollers. Finally, if this truly is about the boys getting some games as they've missed out, as George asserts, then riddle me this - why can't they play in the WOS Conference for a season, or better yet, get together with the other SPL sides and get a boys league for a season. Wouldn't that have been a good question to have asked.

So to venture off topic for two seconds, I'm a huge NFL fan (American Football) and potentially an even bigger College Football fan for many reasons including there being no money in the game, and the games being more exciting at collegiate level. My support of both of these sports dates back over three decades. This parallels to the non league. This has been my true passion since I was a boy.......I'm now 42.........shhh don't tell anyone. I'm just do disheartened by what's taking place right now. Fair play to Civil Service for calling it out for exactly what it is. When there's next to no money in the game......that should be what sets the league apart.......not to pander to the big guns and take whatever bung is going. I'm just scunnered at what I've learned/heard over past few days.

Absolutely spot on! I was previously completely taken in by George's apparent determination for fairness pertaining to the Lowland. Last season he spoke of the underhand tactics of the SPFL regarding trying to get Brechin into the Lowland League - and how they were being threatened by the SPFL and faced possible sanctions. He appeared to be a man of principle. Yet listen to his interview on the Lowland Podcast. At around 7 mins 20 mins secs, he is asked what would happen beyond the first year of the OF colts being in the Lowland and he responds 'that is down to Rangers and Celtic' then follows up with 'we have only committed to one year'. Yet he later in the interview alludes to it just being a one year deal.......if that is the case, and it is purely a one year deal, why say earlier that it is up to Rangers and Celtic what happens beyond that. It's so disingenuous. In fact it stinks to high heaven! If the Old Firm hadn't proposed this, and say instead, Annan and Edinburgh City had contacted him to say that their young boys hadn't played in a year or so either, and needed to join a league for a year, but had no funds to pay an entry fee, there would be absolutely no discussion to be had. He would be preaching about the league can only be a maximum of 16 clubs, as previously reported. He is an absolute sell out. Had he just been honest, and said - 'our member clubs are really struggling financially so for a one year deal only we are going to accept a £3k pay off per club' (£50k payment by the OF divided by the member clubs) then.....you might not agree with it, but you'd appreciate the honesty. But instead it's the underhandedness of it all. And quite frankly he should have been held to far greater account than he was during this interview by the one or two fanboys - one of whom in particular I have always had the greatest respect for. To be clear, I'm not as fundamentally opposed as others to OF Colts......but if it has to happen, then in the name of fairness and so called 'sporting integrity' then they absolutely have to start at the bottom of the rung and work their way up. Besides, it's equal Conferences at the moment beyond the West Premier so would presumably take fewer years to achieve. I actually can't put into words just how let down I feel by George Fraser.....a man I have always greatly championed until now. Again.....for the hard of thinking.......this has nothing to do with the two clubs in question......it's the fact that any club should be parachuted in above all others purely because they can pay a premium..........and then George Fraser having the sheer audacity to comment that it's purely because 'their kids haven't played in a while'...........whereas presumably all other clubs in Scotland have had the luxury of playing their youngsters on a weekly basis! Where to even begin with this???

I think you’ve gravely misunderstood what took place today. I was proved correct - the SPFL took it to arbitration to try and get the playoff overturned, something on here almost everyone saw coming the minute Ferguson resigned. In the end it had to go to a judge to decide what should have been the obvious thing to do all along. Fortunately the pyramid prevails - in spite of Ferguson’s, Brechin’s and the SPFL’s attempt to prevent it! Praise that judge!

First leg is this Saturday with the return leg the following Saturday. (Kelty TV have a live feed for the first leg). These two clubs have each paid around £2k for covid testing etc this past week. It is therefore incredible that we are now two days away from the first leg of the non league play-off final and we still do not know whether there will be a pyramid play-off final. But are we all that surprised??? If the ruling is that there is no playoff final then the Kelty/Brora games are essentially rendered irrelevant........becomes nothing more than a two leg glorified friendly as the edge would completely be lost. We need confirmation today, that the SPFL will respect the pyramid and order a play-off final between the winner of this tie and Club 42.

Completely agree! Should be an enforced playoff.

Confirmed that Brechin have written to the SPFL board claiming it would be “fundamentally unfair” to hold play-offs between club 42 and winner of Highland and Lowland league play-off(based on games played by Brora and Kelty). They propose league reconstruction with no relegation, expanding League 2 to 12 clubs. Here we go again with reconstruction chat!

Em ok - but I never actually mentioned increased promotion/relegation spots, or Colt sides for that matter. Robert asked if that was potentially why they were doing what they are doing - ie with a view to increased spots, whilst incorporating Colts. I believe that not to be the case. I believe, as I said, that its self preservation - ie nothing to do with that proposal......I believe they just want to avoid relegation at all costs. My preference is not to expand the league this season, but instead simply for the pyramid play-off to actually take place, but sadly self preservation will almost certainly curtail that. Beyond this season my preference would be for the league not to expand by taking in additional new sides, but for Club 42 to be relegated automatically. Longer term, I'd like to see the 42 changing to 3 leagues of 14........at that point it would be legitimate to increase relegation/promotion spots between the bottom tier and the non leagues. If Colt clubs want to be part of the set-up, they should start at the very bottom of the pyramid like anyone else.

PersonalIy, I think that's unlikely. More self-preservation, sadly.

Another school of thought of what could potentially happen on the 19th, aimed at those who are far more confident than I, that the pyramid play-off final will proceed. Could the negative statement from the SPFL be a forewarning that perhaps the Highland and Lowland playoff wont happen, but that Club 42 v Lowland champ might? Allow me to indulge. Brora have had 2 very competitive (and very recent) Scottish cup ties, and as such are far closer to match fitness than a club such as Kelty who haven't laced up in a while. This way the SPFL can ditch Brora under the auspices of them only having played 3 league games, when others in the league had only played once - and in Strathspeys case, hadn't started at all. The SPFL can't then be accused of closing off the Pyramid play-off altogether, but instead take their chances against a team who haven't played in a long while. Would also explain why it took a suspiciously long time for Kelty to be given permission to even train. Yes I know, talent usually wins out in the end, and Kelty would likely still be regarded as heavy favourites against Brechin.......or whoever happens to finish as Club 42. For the avoidance of doubt, I still believe and fear that the pyramid play-off final will be abolished altogether, however the above scenario would mean the SPFL saves face a little, and gives them far more credit with the neutrals whilst very very slightly increasing the chances of Club 42 remaining in the league due to Kelty being dormant for so long. Just something to consider.