The Wrestling Thread

[DomDom]

Just found it on youtube, "Oh and by the way, people, lose the freaking cowboy hats. You're not seven years old anymore. PLEASE". And then Heyman proceeds to tease JR about his cowboy hat. Love it.

I like how he adds that on as a sort of sidenote to the rest. Angle is a brilliant talker. He's good on Mania X-8 as well slagging Canada because of the figure skating stuff.

[forehead7]

Just seeing Angle back in his WWF/E days, forgot he used to wear the Olympic medals to the ring, is there a reason why he doesn't do it in TNA anymore? I know they were told that they couldn't call his move the Olympic Slam because it's using them as advertising (but they could still call him an Olympic gold medalist because that's like a title), did they also ban them from using the medals on-screen?

[TheGreenMonster]

[KD1711]

I like how he adds that on as a sort of sidenote to the rest. Angle is a brilliant talker. He's good on Mania X-8 as well slagging Canada because of the figure skating stuff.

Where abouts do you watch these Wrestlemanias Dom Dom? Is it easy to find on Youtube? Would like to watch X7 and 2000, what PPV was it where Edge, Christian and the Hardyz have a brutal match and at the end getting a standing ovation from the crowd at the end, was one of my all time favourite matches but can't remember which PPV it was on. Think it was one of the first TLC matches.

[DomDom]

Find good torrent sites. BitTorrent is yer best bet as a downloader. When ye get that, PM me.

[DA Baracus]

Just seeing Angle back in his WWF/E days, forgot he used to wear the Olympic medals to the ring, is there a reason why he doesn't do it in TNA anymore? I know they were told that they couldn't call his move the Olympic Slam because it's using them as advertising (but they could still call him an Olympic gold medalist because that's like a title), did they also ban them from using the medals on-screen?

I'm certain he used to. Hopefully he stopped doing it to stop the lazy booking of every single opponent he entered into a feud with stealing them.

[TheGreenMonster]

[Fodge]

I've been watching the 1998 year of Monday Nitro recently and the above post reminded me of how much I enjoy Jericho's character during this time. Might even be my favourite era of his career.

Also, the episode I've just watched featured the infamous appearance of Chucky arguing with Rick Steiner.

[DomDom]

WWE Wrestlemania X-8

I've never seen this PPV. I look at the card and think "meh". I've obviously seen Rock/Hogan, and I've also looked out Jericho/HHH, but I've never seen the whole PPV back to front.

William Regal © vs. Rob Van Dam - WWE Intercontinental Championship

RVD was already way into his improvement, with almost none of the usual stalling in this one. Another decent Mania opener from Regal here. A few minutes of good action from both guys. RVD is full of flash with kicks and flips, and Regal brings some good old fashioned brutality, which is helped by RVD's weird bumping style. Look out for a horrendous ( in a good way ) Suplex from Regal. Decent wee opener. **3/4

Christian vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Wow. This is a messy match. Gets going with a slugfest which sees both men having major timing issues and the match never really kicks on. I wonder if DDP had his tendency to plan matches curbed, because this one was all over the place. Not good. *

Maven © vs. Goldust - WWE Hardcore Championship

Compare this to the previous year. Deary me. Of course, if you add the 24/7 rule to that, you have at least one amusing moment when Spike Dudley appears out of nowhere and wins the title. The match before that really is dreadful. Maven is willing to bump like a mofo, but that's about all I can like. DUD

There's other hardcore stuff on the show which is kinda fun I suppose, especially The Hurricane appearing from nowhere and winning the hardcore title. I have a feeling we've not seen the end of this.

Kurt Angle vs. Kane

Angle smacks Kane in the face with the ringbell before it can be rung, meaning that he can't be DQed for it. Some pretty innovative stuff there. We're already better than the last two matches. The match eventually develops into one where Angle is confident enough in his wrestling ability that he uses that to try and gain an advantage rather than cheating, but that doesn't stop him using a wee shortcut here or there. Kane just opts for pure power whenever he's getting out of trouble. Not a great match or anything, but on this show, you take what you can get I suppose. It's certainly decent. **1/2

The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, No DQ Match

In a wonderful opening to the match, Flair crawls into the ring and goes right for the leg of Taker. While they don't do much else on that sort of level, it's a nice wee touch to the match. This match isn't much more than punch after punch, but I think this match proves that you don't have to have a massive moveset. A punch should be enough if you know how to use it, and these two guys know how to make a match mean something. The match gets a bit dramatic and as it goes on, and a bit more brutal too. The Spinebuster from Arn Anderson is a thing of beauty, and probably adds points to the match on it's own. As it is, this is a fun brawl. ***

Booker T. vs. Edge

This was actually quite a decent midcard style match. There was one big botch in there but they recovered well. Both guys looked excellent, especially Edge which I think was the point. Another decent match in what is becoming a line of them. **3/4

To the Hurricane backstage, where he has his sidekick Mighty Molly and she wins the hardcore title.

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall

This is as unspectacular a match as Austin ever had at Wrestlemania. The nWo could have at least been something, but they basically had The Rock and Austin smash them for a month and then Hogan leaves and turns face. I don't see the point in bringing the nWo back just to do that to them. This match is another example, and also a poor example of Austin wasting away in the midcard of WWE before finally disappearing in a blaze of nothing much not long after. Average midcard fare here. **

Billy and Chuck © vs. The APA vs. The Dudley Boys vs. The Hardy Boys - WWE World Tag Team Championships

What a fuckfest of a match this is. We don't even get a Dudleys/Hardys ending which might have been a saving grace to this match. The ending we do get with the champs and the Hardys is absolutely dreadful. We were on a good run as well. DUD

Molly Holly is seen backstage and runs into a door slammed into her face by Christian. Christian wins the hardcore title and does a runner.

Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock

The term "dream match" seems to get banded about a fair bit, but this really is the very definition of the term, and the crowd reaction to it tells it's own story. The way that Hogan winds up playing to the audience seems to get on a lot of people's nerves, but the way I look at it, it would have been ridiculous if he was going to continue being a dickhead heel with the entire audience behind him. There was no way that crowd was going to cheer The Rock that night. These two guys know how to put together a dramatic match better than most, so it really shouldn't have surprised anyone that this turned out to be every bit as good as Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock should be. It's not a 5* classic in my eyes, but I don't think that was the point. The point was to give the fans an experience, and that's what they got. ****1/2

Jazz © vs. Lita vs. Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship

Hey, this could be naw bad. It's a shame that this was put in the piss-break slot, because it was actually fun. Jazz is just a total monster here, giving both of her opponents a proper doing. The crowd don't seem to care though, no matter what they do. **1/4

And so we come to the end of our Hardcore Title story, as Christian is getting in a cab with the hardcore title, but then Maven pins Christian, steals his cab and leaves. Brilliant.

Chris Jericho © vs. Triple H - WWE Undisputed Heavyweight Championship

Triple H's injury which sidelined him plays a pretty major part in the lead up to this match, and unsurprisingly Jericho goes for it right away. This isn't a bad match btw. It's certainly underwhelming and it doesn't feel like a Wrestlemania main event. Plus, we all know that Triple H wasn't at his best in 2002, and this match would actually be remembered as one of his better matches of that year, mainly thanks to the pretty excellent selling from HHH making it seem like he's proper fucked, and Jericho's Malenko style ruthlessness in going after it. It's just very unspectacular and if it was a bit shorter, it'd be more reminiscent of a TV main event. ***

This PPV is decent in places, and dreadful in others. It does have Hogan/Rock, but there's surely a compilation out there that's better than this PPV, so it'd be better seeking it out on that. Recommendation to avoid, and I move on to what I remember being a decent one, and there's a YouTube video with the hardcore title changes if you want to see them. You SHOULD see them.

[Fodge]

WWE Wrestlemania X-8

I've never seen this PPV. I look at the card and think "meh". I've obviously seen Rock/Hogan, and I've also looked out Jericho/HHH, but I've never seen the whole PPV back to front.

William Regal © vs. Rob Van Dam - WWE Intercontinental Championship

RVD was already way into his improvement, with almost none of the usual stalling in this one. Another decent Mania opener from Regal here. A few minutes of good action from both guys. RVD is full of flash with kicks and flips, and Regal brings some good old fashioned brutality, which is helped by RVD's weird bumping style. Look out for a horrendous ( in a good way ) Suplex from Regal. Decent wee opener. **3/4

Christian vs. Diamond Dallas Page

Wow. This is a messy match. Gets going with a slugfest which sees both men having major timing issues and the match never really kicks on. I wonder if DDP had his tendency to plan matches curbed, because this one was all over the place. Not good. *

Maven © vs. Goldust - WWE Hardcore Championship

Compare this to the previous year. Deary me. Of course, if you add the 24/7 rule to that, you have at least one amusing moment when Spike Dudley appears out of nowhere and wins the title. The match before that really is dreadful. Maven is willing to bump like a mofo, but that's about all I can like. DUD

There's other hardcore stuff on the show which is kinda fun I suppose, especially The Hurricane appearing from nowhere and winning the hardcore title. I have a feeling we've not seen the end of this.

Kurt Angle vs. Kane

Angle smacks Kane in the face with the ringbell before it can be rung, meaning that he can't be DQed for it. Some pretty innovative stuff there. We're already better than the last two matches. The match eventually develops into one where Angle is confident enough in his wrestling ability that he uses that to try and gain an advantage rather than cheating, but that doesn't stop him using a wee shortcut here or there. Kane just opts for pure power whenever he's getting out of trouble. Not a great match or anything, but on this show, you take what you can get I suppose. It's certainly decent. **1/2

The Undertaker vs. Ric Flair, No DQ Match

In a wonderful opening to the match, Flair crawls into the ring and goes right for the leg of Taker. While they don't do much else on that sort of level, it's a nice wee touch to the match. This match isn't much more than punch after punch, but I think this match proves that you don't have to have a massive moveset. A punch should be enough if you know how to use it, and these two guys know how to make a match mean something. The match gets a bit dramatic and as it goes on, and a bit more brutal too. The Spinebuster from Arn Anderson is a thing of beauty, and probably adds points to the match on it's own. As it is, this is a fun brawl. ***

Booker T. vs. Edge

This was actually quite a decent midcard style match. There was one big botch in there but they recovered well. Both guys looked excellent, especially Edge which I think was the point. Another decent match in what is becoming a line of them. **3/4

To the Hurricane backstage, where he has his sidekick Mighty Molly and she wins the hardcore title.

"Stone Cold" Steve Austin vs. Scott Hall

This is as unspectacular a match as Austin ever had at Wrestlemania. The nWo could have at least been something, but they basically had The Rock and Austin smash them for a month and then Hogan leaves and turns face. I don't see the point in bringing the nWo back just to do that to them. This match is another example, and also a poor example of Austin wasting away in the midcard of WWE before finally disappearing in a blaze of nothing much not long after. Average midcard fare here. **

Billy and Chuck © vs. The APA vs. The Dudley Boys vs. The Hardy Boys - WWE World Tag Team Championships

What a fuckfest of a match this is. We don't even get a Dudleys/Hardys ending which might have been a saving grace to this match. The ending we do get with the champs and the Hardys is absolutely dreadful. We were on a good run as well. DUD

Molly Holly is seen backstage and runs into a door slammed into her face by Christian. Christian wins the hardcore title and does a runner.

Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock

The term "dream match" seems to get banded about a fair bit, but this really is the very definition of the term, and the crowd reaction to it tells it's own story. The way that Hogan winds up playing to the audience seems to get on a lot of people's nerves, but the way I look at it, it would have been ridiculous if he was going to continue being a dickhead heel with the entire audience behind him. There was no way that crowd was going to cheer The Rock that night. These two guys know how to put together a dramatic match better than most, so it really shouldn't have surprised anyone that this turned out to be every bit as good as Hulk Hogan vs. The Rock should be. It's not a 5* classic in my eyes, but I don't think that was the point. The point was to give the fans an experience, and that's what they got. ****1/2

Jazz © vs. Lita vs. Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship

Hey, this could be naw bad. It's a shame that this was put in the piss-break slot, because it was actually fun. Jazz is just a total monster here, giving both of her opponents a proper doing. The crowd don't seem to care though, no matter what they do. **1/4

And so we come to the end of our Hardcore Title story, as Christian is getting in a cab with the hardcore title, but then Maven pins Christian, steals his cab and leaves. Brilliant.

Chris Jericho © vs. Triple H - WWE Undisputed Heavyweight Championship

Triple H's injury which sidelined him plays a pretty major part in the lead up to this match, and unsurprisingly Jericho goes for it right away. This isn't a bad match btw. It's certainly underwhelming and it doesn't feel like a Wrestlemania main event. Plus, we all know that Triple H wasn't at his best in 2002, and this match would actually be remembered as one of his better matches of that year, mainly thanks to the pretty excellent selling from HHH making it seem like he's proper fucked, and Jericho's Malenko style ruthlessness in going after it. It's just very unspectacular and if it was a bit shorter, it'd be more reminiscent of a TV main event. ***

This PPV is decent in places, and dreadful in others. It does have Hogan/Rock, but there's surely a compilation out there that's better than this PPV, so it'd be better seeking it out on that. Recommendation to avoid, and I move on to what I remember being a decent one, and there's a YouTube video with the hardcore title changes if you want to see them. You SHOULD see them.

Being a Hulkamaniac, that moment when Hollywood hulked up and the crowd popped was worth the match alone.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

Mania 18 still has the best Stunner sell of all time.

[DomDom]

I'd say that particular accolade goes to RVD on an episode of Smackdown in 2001 when they had a peach of a match.

[Fodge]

I'd say that particular accolade goes to RVD on an episode of Smackdown in 2001 when they had a peach of a match.

Any link to this match?

[DomDom]

[Fodge]

Cheers for the link.

[Shuggie_Murray7]

This still wins...

[Fodge]

This still wins...

Much better than The Rock who eventually would go completely over the top in selling of a Stunner

[Mark Connolly]

WWE Wrestlemania X-8

I think there is some decent stuff in that PPV, a lot of which is hurt by the fact the crowd were either waiting for, or completely spent after, Hogan-Rock.

As you say, the women's match was pretty decent, especially when you consider Trish spent the previous two WM as Albert and Test's manager, and a bit-part in the McMahon saga respectively.

Jericho-HHH was decent too, despite the build as effectively HHH v Stephanie (remember the Undisputed Champ being sent to walk the dog?). Jericho himself is pretty scathing in his book about that.

Completely agree about the waste of the nWo, but it does seem a classic example of Vince taking something someone else created, and just burying it for his own benefit. Even before his hand was effectively forced with the crowd reaction to Hogan, they seemed to be on the wrong end for such a previously dominant and destructive unit. Compare and contrast with the use of the Shield currently.

I was never a fan of Hogan, but that match with the Rock was awesome, and the crowd was mental.

My favourite moment of the event was Arn's spinebuster - as a big Arn fan, it was great to see him in the ring at WM, and as you say, the spinebuster was perfect, and provided one of those "Maybe the Streak is done" moments. Awesome.

For anyone who hasn't seen it, quality isn't great, but here it is

[DomDom]

What I love about the Spinebuster is the "where the f**k did he come from?!" factor of it. People barely knew he was even in the fucking arena let alone in the ring doing a Spinebuster.

[DomDom]

WWE Wrestlemania XIX

This PPV on paper has a lot to offer and if memory serves me right, it delivers.

Matt Hardy © vs. Rey Mysterio - WWE Cruiserweight Championship

Get the feeling this match would have fucked a lot of prediction games at the time. An opening match for a title with a guy like Mysterio in there, you'd think it was a stick on. Hardy was brilliant around this time of course, as he had his Mattitude thing going on, which was also the one time Shannon Moore ever did something worthwhile. This was perfectly acceptable as an opener, and marks the third year in a row where the opening match ticked the right boxes without being spectacular, and kept a really quick pace throughout. ***

The Undertaker vs. A-Train and The Big Show

The Undertaker was supposed to have Nathan Jones on his side, but he got taken out earlier in the night. Which is code for "Nathan Jones is shite and we don't want him at Wrestlemania." which is a fair assessment. Of course, none of the guys in this match were much better around this time. A-Train is just not suited for WWE, and The Big Show was just not having a good time. Even just a year later, he was much more comfortable in his role. Taker was dreadful around this time as well. Add that to the fact that this match was practically a handicap match, and it just didn't come across well. There's some cool stuff I suppose, like Taker going into submissions mode, and The Big Show being allowed to look at least a bit decent, but other than that, this match is a bit of a dud. *

Victoria © vs. Jazz vs. Trish Stratus - WWE Women's Championship

Much like the previous year, WWE put together a rather nifty women's title match, but this time they actually put the match in a more favourable spot. Jazz is still in the same "f**k up anything that moves" mindset that she was in the previous year, which makes things as entertaining as you could ask. There isn't a shitehawk like Lita in there though, and Trish Stratus was much improved on the year before. From the end of 2002 onwards, Trish was amazing. There's about 10 minutes of constant motion in this one, and the crowd responds in kind to it. Good match. ***1/4

Team Angle © vs. Los Guerreros vs. Chris Benoit and Rhyno - WWE Tag Team Championships

This is a fun match. Not quite as good as some of the talent in there would suggest. Los Guerreros and Team Angle would go on and better this on a pretty regular basis over the next couple of months. I think there might just have been a wee bit too much in this match and that's led to things being a bit flat in the end. There certainly wasn't really anything wrong with the match. Had it been on Smackdown, I think a lot of people would have been quite happy, but with this talent on the big stage, you expected something a bit more. Disappointing, but not bad. ***

Chris Jericho vs. Shawn Michaels

Since the match with HHH at Summerslam 2002, I don't think HBK had that many matches on that level for a while afterwards, and then this match came around, and we were reminded of just how good HBK can be. The fued they had for the world title was absolutely incredible. Probably the best WWE fued of recent years. A lot of the match was focused on the back of HBK and as you might expect, HBK kinda forgets about it leading to the big end, but HBK's selling was never the best in that way. It was his timing which made his selling, and knowing when to turn it on and off to suck the crowd into it, and he's on fine form here. Jericho as the dickhead is good as well, and you sense a lot of bitterness from him. Really damn good match between these two guys. ****1/4

Post-match, Jericho shakes the hand of HBK, and then lands the low blow post-match in a terrific moment.

Catfight

Meh.

Triple H © vs. Booker T. - World Heavyweight Championship

A lot of people complained about Triple H burying Booker T. in this one, especially with the ending of the match. Would be a fair enough complaint, but this is Booker fucking T. we're talking about here. Lets not pretend he was some superstar in the making or something. I always like in big matches when guys pull out stuff that either 1) they haven't done before and 2) haven't done for years. There's a bit of both in this one, with HHH doing a new deathlock submission and Booker pulling out the Harlem Hangover for the first time in WWE if memory serves me right. This was actually a fine performance from Booker, and he came off looking quite good, and HHH held his own more than he normally did around this time. Good match here. ***3/4

Mr. McMahon vs. Hulk Hogan, Street Fight

What I always love about Vince McMahon brawls is that no matter who he's up against, he never backs down, and also doesn't forget that he's the non-wrestler in there. This match sees him take it to a new level though, as he and Hogan both look like they want to murder each other. Plenty of smoke and mirrors in this one, but it's Hogan vs. Vince, so anyone expecting anything else shouldn't even be watching wrestling. It's an entertaining bloodbath of a match. ***

The Rock vs. "Stone Cold" Steve Austin

The Rock is having his third attempt at beating Steve Austin at Wrestlemania. I think we all knew that Austin's career was very close to it's end at this point, and sure enough, this turned out to be his final match. The Rock of course, being the b*****d of this story, goes after the very knees that Austin had been having trouble with all of those years. It's the being a dick for the sake of it that sees Austin come back into it though, as The Rock wastes time putting Austin's waist coat on. I thought the final array of finisher exchanging and big kickouts was all just a bit predictable, bordering on tedious, but these two guys have brilliant chemistry together, and it was good to see The Rock getting the big win. A good match, but probably their worst Mania match. ***1/2

Kurt Angle © vs. Brock Lesnar - WWE Championship

I really like the way this match builds. Angle sends shots to the injured ribs of Lesnar, and while Lesnar does make something resembling superman comebacks, he never forgets that the ribs are hurt, always going back to them after a big move, and Angle needs to revert to massive shots to really do the business. There's a bit too much in the way of chinlockery, and that was a problem with a few Angle matches. His match with Benoit at the Rumble that year had the same sort of problem. There's some brilliant moments in the match. The German Suplex into the corner is a belter, as is the Face Drop German later on. And then there's the match ending which... well, lets just say it puts a dampener on a very good match. Before that, this was a really damn good match, brilliant timing with both guys playing their roles brilliantly. ****1/4

As a top to bottom card, this one is actually bloody good. There isn't much which drops below the 3* mark, and then you have two matches which deliver the 4* standard.