The Wrestling Thread

[DomDom]

I found myself watching WM8 last night again thanks to your review (my girlfriend says thanks................ ), if you can remember - was the finish to Tito/HBK a botch? I think HBK was supposed to do a cross body over the ropes but grabbed on as he messed it up.

If it WAS a botch, they played it very well. I'm gonna give the benefit of the doubt. The ending worked with the slimey HBK of the time.

I know the Piper/Hart spot you're talking about though. That looked horrible. Surely you'd just cut your loses and land in the ring?

EDIT: Oh, incase you don't read the ICW thread, Sabu vs. Jack Jester takes place at the end of August, as does Grado vs. Colt Cabana at the Edinburgh Playhouse. More details in the relevant thread.

Edited May 9, 2013 by DomDom

[DomDom]

WWE Wrestlemania X

This was a historic show and WWE did their bit to try and make it seem so. Big opening match which is widely seen as one of the greatest ever. We'll get to that soon. We also had the triangle between Luger, Hart and Yokozuna for the belt, and the first ladder match on WWE PPV. Whatelse was on the show...

Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart

...who cares? Because we're starting with this. I'd imagine if this match happened now, the internet would quite rightly be having one massive collective w**k over the thought of it on paper. It's hard to put into words what makes this match so good, but every bit of expectation you'd have for this match is met and then some. Some of the counters and mini-sequences between the two men are wonderful to watch. So fluid and out of nowhere. The desperation in what is essentially the third act of the match is the turning point in Owen's favour, and while what comes before this point is about as near to perfect as it gets, what follows sends it over the edge. This might actually be the best match of all time. *****

I genuinely forgot how incredible that match is. One of them matches you watch and think "yeah, this is an utter classic". Just amazing. Seek it out if you haven't seen it. It's perfect.

Bam Bam Bigelow and Luna Vachon vs. Doink and Dink

"What can we expect in this matchup?!"

Probably a heap of shite. First thing that's noteworthy is just how much fun Dink is in the ring. He helps along the stuff between him and Luna brilliantly with both 1) great selling and 2) some hilarious stuff when in control. I guess when you add that to some decent Doink/Bigelow stuff, this match isn't actually bad at all. **1/2

Randy Savage vs. Crush - Falls Count Anywhere Match

After the fall, you have to return to the ring after 60 seconds. Weird pointless rule there. This match features the awesome spot where Crush gets his head slammed good and proper right into the ringpost. There's some right shit falls here. Savage pinned after a minute? When did that ever happen? The match isn't without it's charms. For the time, the match was a bit cool to see, and the backstage falls was something new. The ending of the match is like something you'd see in a Cena match these days, but like now, I like these endings. Shows brains on the part of Savage to get the job done no matter what. Not a good match here though. *

Alundra Blaze © vs. Lelani Kai - WWE Women's Championship

Safe to say that Kai's best days were behind her by the time that this match came along. This match is a bit short, but it's entertaining enough. It had a nice flow about it and Blaze got a chance to show some nice moves off in the time without making it a total spotfest. Made Blaze look plucky instead. **

The Quebecers © vs. Men on a Mission - WWE World Tag Team Championships

I can vaguely remember this match actually being quite fun. My recollection didn't do me much good in this instance. This is not a good match. Men on a Mission seemed a bit off when in control. No idea what to do when they were in there. The Quebecers were a brilliant tag team though, and when they had the control of the match, things were MUCH better. And at least when Mabel is on his own, he comes out with some serious big man offense. So there IS redeeming factors, but ultimately, this is a bit shifty. **

Yokozuna © vs. Lex Luger - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Mr. Perfect is the referee for this. The winner of this match goes on to face a weakened Bret Hart at the end of the night. Luger's tactic of "beat the shit out of the big guy" seems pretty solid on paper. As always with Yoko though, one shot from him and the entire match is turned around. Highly enjoyable stuff from Yoko as always and the added shenanigans of Jim Cornette only helps matters. Not a fan of the wacky ending sequence, and then you have the weird Mr. Perfect stuff as well. It really takes away from what was an entertaining match. **

Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb

SQUUUUAAASSSHHHHH!!!

Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, Ladder Match - WWE Intercontinental Championship

One of the most famous matches in WWE history. I've always maintained that this match has classic status for historical purposes, and also because how influential it was. That's not to say that this isn't a very good match though. I've never really given the story of the match the credit it deserves. Which is weird, because in the early ladder matches, they ALWAYS stress that they try and incapacitate the other man enough to win, and that's essentially all both guys do in this match is try and maul each other so much that the other guy can't climb. There's some REALLY brutal moments in this. The initial Baseball Slide early on with the ladder from HBK is absolutely vicious. The ladder falling on top of HBK is another big one. Turned out that it was really bad luck that lost the match for HBK though. As you've read in these reviews, I LOVE twists in the ending like that. So yeah, it's a fine ladder match. ****1/2

Yokozuna © vs. Bret Hart - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Ever the b*****d, Yokozuna just goes right after Bret Hart from the word go. Piper is the referee in this one btw, incase memories have gone. I totally forgot he was the referee. This match lacks the fun factor that the earlier title match had, and probably the first time I can remember a Yokozuna match being boring. Most of it is Yokozuna doing plodding offense instead of his heavy hitting throws and strikes. The ending is kinda shit too, considering Yokozuna suddenly gets up after the three count with a "what happened there?!" look on his face. So a boring main event. *

I don't know what to make of this one. It's a fun enough show at times and contains a surefire candidate for greatest match of all time, but there's just so much filler between the big matches that it's hard to recommend it. Seeking out Owen/Bret and Razor/HBK would seem a better bet.

[Bert Raccoon]

Wrestlemania X was definitely a bit of a meh event for me. I had no interest in Owen, Bret, Luger or Yokozuna so alot of the event passed me by even although they weren't bad matches.. The HBK vs Ramon match was a cracker though.

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

WWE Wrestlemania X

This was a historic show and WWE did their bit to try and make it seem so. Big opening match which is widely seen as one of the greatest ever. We'll get to that soon. We also had the triangle between Luger, Hart and Yokozuna for the belt, and the first ladder match on WWE PPV. Whatelse was on the show...

Owen Hart vs. Bret Hart

...who cares? Because we're starting with this. I'd imagine if this match happened now, the internet would quite rightly be having one massive collective w**k over the thought of it on paper. It's hard to put into words what makes this match so good, but every bit of expectation you'd have for this match is met and then some. Some of the counters and mini-sequences between the two men are wonderful to watch. So fluid and out of nowhere. The desperation in what is essentially the third act of the match is the turning point in Owen's favour, and while what comes before this point is about as near to perfect as it gets, what follows sends it over the edge. This might actually be the best match of all time. *****

I genuinely forgot how incredible that match is. One of them matches you watch and think "yeah, this is an utter classic". Just amazing. Seek it out if you haven't seen it. It's perfect.

Bam Bam Bigelow and Luna Vachon vs. Doink and Dink

"What can we expect in this matchup?!"

Probably a heap of shite. First thing that's noteworthy is just how much fun Dink is in the ring. He helps along the stuff between him and Luna brilliantly with both 1) great selling and 2) some hilarious stuff when in control. I guess when you add that to some decent Doink/Bigelow stuff, this match isn't actually bad at all. **1/2

Randy Savage vs. Crush - Falls Count Anywhere Match

After the fall, you have to return to the ring after 60 seconds. Weird pointless rule there. This match features the awesome spot where Crush gets his head slammed good and proper right into the ringpost. There's some right shit falls here. Savage pinned after a minute? When did that ever happen? The match isn't without it's charms. For the time, the match was a bit cool to see, and the backstage falls was something new. The ending of the match is like something you'd see in a Cena match these days, but like now, I like these endings. Shows brains on the part of Savage to get the job done no matter what. Not a good match here though. *

Alundra Blaze © vs. Lelani Kai - WWE Women's Championship

Safe to say that Kai's best days were behind her by the time that this match came along. This match is a bit short, but it's entertaining enough. It had a nice flow about it and Blaze got a chance to show some nice moves off in the time without making it a total spotfest. Made Blaze look plucky instead. **

The Quebecers © vs. Men on a Mission - WWE World Tag Team Championships

I can vaguely remember this match actually being quite fun. My recollection didn't do me much good in this instance. This is not a good match. Men on a Mission seemed a bit off when in control. No idea what to do when they were in there. The Quebecers were a brilliant tag team though, and when they had the control of the match, things were MUCH better. And at least when Mabel is on his own, he comes out with some serious big man offense. So there IS redeeming factors, but ultimately, this is a bit shifty. **

Yokozuna © vs. Lex Luger - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Mr. Perfect is the referee for this. The winner of this match goes on to face a weakened Bret Hart at the end of the night. Luger's tactic of "beat the shit out of the big guy" seems pretty solid on paper. As always with Yoko though, one shot from him and the entire match is turned around. Highly enjoyable stuff from Yoko as always and the added shenanigans of Jim Cornette only helps matters. Not a fan of the wacky ending sequence, and then you have the weird Mr. Perfect stuff as well. It really takes away from what was an entertaining match. **

Earthquake vs. Adam Bomb

SQUUUUAAASSSHHHHH!!!

Shawn Michaels vs. Razor Ramon, Ladder Match - WWE Intercontinental Championship

One of the most famous matches in WWE history. I've always maintained that this match has classic status for historical purposes, and also because how influential it was. That's not to say that this isn't a very good match though. I've never really given the story of the match the credit it deserves. Which is weird, because in the early ladder matches, they ALWAYS stress that they try and incapacitate the other man enough to win, and that's essentially all both guys do in this match is try and maul each other so much that the other guy can't climb. There's some REALLY brutal moments in this. The initial Baseball Slide early on with the ladder from HBK is absolutely vicious. The ladder falling on top of HBK is another big one. Turned out that it was really bad luck that lost the match for HBK though. As you've read in these reviews, I LOVE twists in the ending like that. So yeah, it's a fine ladder match. ****1/2

Yokozuna © vs. Bret Hart - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

Ever the b*****d, Yokozuna just goes right after Bret Hart from the word go. Piper is the referee in this one btw, incase memories have gone. I totally forgot he was the referee. This match lacks the fun factor that the earlier title match had, and probably the first time I can remember a Yokozuna match being boring. Most of it is Yokozuna doing plodding offense instead of his heavy hitting throws and strikes. The ending is kinda shit too, considering Yokozuna suddenly gets up after the three count with a "what happened there?!" look on his face. So a boring main event. *

I don't know what to make of this one. It's a fun enough show at times and contains a surefire candidate for greatest match of all time, but there's just so much filler between the big matches that it's hard to recommend it. Seeking out Owen/Bret and Razor/HBK would seem a better bet.

Recently I was trying to figure out what WM 'taker missed during his undefeated streak, this answers my question. Apart from the ladder match and opening match this was a below average WM imo.

Edited May 11, 2013 by YER SISTERS YER MAW

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Recently I was trying to figure out what WM 'taker missed during his undefeated streak, this answers my question. Apart from the ladder match and opening match this was a below average WM imo.

He missed WM 16 as well.

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

He missed WM 16 as well.

Aye right enough, his 1st in 1990 so it would have been 2 out of 23 he missed, cheers!

[DomDom]

Wrestlemania X was definitely a bit of a meh event for me. I had no interest in Owen, Bret, Luger or Yokozuna so alot of the event passed me by even although they weren't bad matches.. The HBK vs Ramon match was a cracker though.

Owen vs. Bret is one which might be doing with a rewatch. I can't believe how much I enjoyed it this time.

Oh, and The Undertaker missing 'Manias during the streak... X wasn't the only one. I've got Wrestlemania XI to do next. I'm not looking forward to this. I've decided to watch it in line with an indyriffic PWG show incase I need a break from what I remember as a god awful Wrestlemania. It has Diesel vs. HBK though, and Lawrence Taylor did a not bad job for a non-wrestler.

Once I get to the main events I should be fine.

Edited May 11, 2013 by DomDom

[Mark Connolly]

Owen vs. Bret is one which might be doing with a rewatch. I can't believe how much I enjoyed it this time.

Oh, and The Undertaker missing 'Manias during the streak... X wasn't the only one. I've got Wrestlemania XI to do next. I'm not looking forward to this. I've decided to watch it in line with an indyriffic PWG show incase I need a break from what I remember as a god awful Wrestlemania. It has Diesel vs. HBK though, and Lawrence Taylor did a not bad job for a non-wrestler.

Once I get to the main events I should be fine.

I'll be interested to see your take on XI. I know everyone rates Toga-fest as the worst WM ever, but XI pushes it for me, albeit it was saved by HBK-Diesel.

[DomDom]

Toga-fest was very much better than I remember it being. I'm three matches into this one and I'm not hopeful at all.

[YER SISTERS YER MAW]

Toga-fest was very much better than I remember it being. I'm three matches into this one and I'm not hopeful at all.

Did Heenan hillariously enter the arena on the back of a camel looking petrified and nearly falling off? That seems to stick in my mind for some reason.

[The Naitch]

Did Heenan hillariously enter the arena on the back of a camel looking petrified and nearly falling off? That seems to stick in my mind for some reason.

Yep, he certainly did.

There's a lot of dross at WM9, the ending doesn't help either. I liked Tatanka vs HBK, though.

[DomDom]

Yep, he certainly did.

There's a lot of dross at WM9, the ending doesn't help either. I liked Tatanka vs HBK, though.

Dross would be harsh to much of the card. Most of it is perfectly acceptable stuff really. Tatanka/HBK would have been even better with a proper ending put onto it. There was no need for the shenanigans.

However, two years later, they certainly rolled out shenanigans.

[DomDom]

WWE Wrestlemania XI

Wish me luck folks!

The Allied Powers vs. The Blu Brothers

Jacob and Eli Blu. Nah, I have no reason to remember who they are either. Luger and Bulldog are the Powers. It's never a good sign when you have a botch within 30 seconds of the match starting. The Blus aren't very good. DOA, The Harris Brothers? Doesn't matter what name they came under. They were shite. Zeb Coulter is at ringside though, which kinda raises a smile. Luger and Bulldog still had something to offer at this point so it would have been nice if they got given something to work with here, but it was a dull match and the fans didn't care. It's about as poor a choice of opener as there's ever been at Wrestlemania. Did all of the wrong things. *

Jeff Jarrett © vs. Razor Ramon - WWE Intercontinental Championship

Love how the fireworks for Razor happen after the bell has rung. That's just weird. And funny. More weird though. Razor does the ol' title match thing where he looks for the pinfalls any way he can get them. Most of them simply coming from right hands. From there it becomes a battle of the wits and experience of JJ against the brute strength and brawling of Razor. 1995 WWE had too much shenanigans and this match was a good example of that. The 1-2-3 Kid and The Roadie both sticking their oars in here, and turning what could have been a really good match into much less. Credit to Razor and Jarrett for their part in this though, and putting on a very good match amongst the idiocy. ***1/4

King Kong Bundy vs. The Undertaker

It's the old story. Big guy comes in and faces Taker at the Rumble. There's a big rammy and Taker faces them at Wrestlemania. The urn for this match is fucking massive. That's about as noteworthy as this match gets though. The match was pretty much put together for Kama to come down and take the urn from Paul Bearer, who only got it back in this match... what was it I was saying about WWE in 1995? It really was dreadful at times. Of course the payoff of all of that was a program between Kama and The Undertaker. There is literally no redeeming factors from this one. DUD

The Smoking Gunns © vs. Yokozuna and Owen Hart - WWE World Tag Team Championships

A team like Owen Hart and Yokozuna actually seems like a bit of a no brainer in hindsight. Owen Hart to do most of the donkey work for the team and Yoko to come in and throw the big home runs. This isn't a bad match here. All four guys are perfectly capable of putting a cracking match together. The Smoking Gunns look great as they always did. Yoko's willingness to bump like a fucker in this match is good, but it probably didn't help his downfall from the main event early. His offense still looks like death, and him and Owen Hart did have a certain "we're unbeatable" edge about them. This is a fun match and I badly needed that from this show. **3/4

Bob Backlund vs. Bret "The Hitman" Hart - I Quit Match

Right, lets get the main bad point out of the way right away. Backlund saying "aahhh eeehhh aaahhh" means he quits. These two guys had a magnificent effort at Survivor Series 1994 so it makes sense that you should be able to expect a cracking match from this, right? Certainly expected more than a bog standard submission style match in which nobody actually gives a f**k. Also a bit rotten that Bret Hart works on the leg constantly, obviously looking for the Sharpshooter, and then deciding that he wants to win with the Crossface Chickenwing. What gives? So yeah, I didn't like this match very much, and certainly the worst match I can ever remember a fit Bret Hart being involved in. *

Diesel © vs. Shawn Michaels - WWE World Heavyweight Championship

THANK f**k!!! Even though there's been not bad stuff on this show, the whole thing has just felt completely bush league. Might be as well watching an episode of RAW. This match has Jenny McCarthy and Pamela Anderson looking good which is a good start. I absolutely love the way much of this match works. Diesel is shown not to be the typical dumb big man and HBK resorts to some weird tactics when his more questionable tactics don't work on the big man, which backfire again. Sid turns out to be the big question mark of the match for him of course, allowing HBK to take control which he does by working on the ribs to try and negate a lot of the strength. SIDENOTE: This led to a really shit fued between Diesel and Sid. The controversial moment when HBK has Diesel beaten and the referee isn't there allows for some righteous anger and even the fans boo that injustice. The match is very good stuff but it has some major flaws. ***3/4

Lawrence Taylor vs. Bam Bam Bigelow

Taylor is seconded by a whole bunch of personalities from American football, while Bigelow is seconded by Ted Dibiase's faction of the time. Steve "Mongo" McMichael is on the outside in the corner of LT which is a cool wee sidenote. Taylor opens the match with a HARD slap and then goes on to give a decent showing of himself. LT's selling and bumping for a novice is stunning. He does a great job of playing the out of depth plucky underdog, and that makes his sudden bursts out of nowhere even more spectacular. Not sure I like that LT won the match. They could have had Diesel/HBK close the show to send the crowd home... erm... happy. But I guess with what they were planning for that match, I can see why they went for this match, and this result instead. And given how big a deal it was, LT winning this match didn't hurt too much. A good solid main event which had no right to be as good as it was. ***

Where this show fails is in the constant bullshit that you have to put up with, and the fact that the stuff that we'd be getting from it would be even more bullshit. Going from a Bundy/Taker fued to a Kama/Taker fued doesn't inspire confidence, and going from Diesel/HBK to Diesel/Sid is just a shambles. So a thumbs down for this one.

[djchapsticks]

I've always thought it kinda shite that they put LT in with a guy like Bam Bam, who was one of the fastest, most agile and most entertaining big guys in history, Main Event him at Mania, and make him job to a non-wrestler (even if LT put in a fucking fine performance, he's have been a cracking wrestler if he hadn't made it as an American Footballer), just kinda seemed like he'd finally made it, only to have any momentum he'd built up be destroyed by going over to a novice in the main event in the biggest PPV of the year.

Also, that review just shows how little there was in the way of genuine star power back then and the stars that they did have, they had in matches against over the hill old crones like Bundy and Backlund.

Edit: Quick wiki check on the old crones shows that Bundy was only 37 at Mania XI.....jesus, I thought he was old when he fought Hogan at Mania II. He's only 55 just now. Point stands, he certainly wasn't relevant by 1995 though.

Edited May 12, 2013 by djchapsticks

[Bert Raccoon]

No mention of Salt n Peppa? For shame. Apart from that another great review.

[DomDom]

No mention of Salt n Peppa? For shame. Apart from that another great review.

The only thing I liked about them was when they threw stuff at Bigelow. I had a good laugh at that.

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

Vince has always had a hard-on for putting celebrities over wrestlers. We live in a world where Maria Menonous is 2-0 at Wrestlemania and Kevin Federline has a pinfall victory over John Cena.

At least WM 11 made Bam Bam a far wealthier man than he was beforehand.

[Bert Raccoon]

Vince has always had a hard-on for putting celebrities over wrestlers. We live in a world where Maria Menonous is 2-0 at Wrestlemania and Kevin Federline has a pinfall victory over John Cena.

At least WM 11 made Bam Bam a far wealthier man than he was beforehand.

Not quite as bad as WCW though.

[DomDom]

Bam Bam Bigelow was never that big a deal for me. I don't think he was ever going to reach the major heights being banded about here. That main event with that high a profile was ALWAYS going to be his highest point, whether he won or lost.

[Bert Raccoon]

Bam Bam Bigelow was never that big a deal for me. I don't think he was ever going to reach the major heights being banded about here. That main event with that high a profile was ALWAYS going to be his highest point, whether he won or lost.

I'd have to agree with you, he was a mid carder and he was lucky to get a headline spot at Wrestlemania, nevermind what the circumstances were.