The Arch Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What are Livi fans thoughts on this? If I was a fan, I'd be tempted to hold off the money and let the club go into admin. Then start the club again, or get the fans to take it over once the administration process has taken place. I don't know if Livi really deserve another chance though, or whether my suggestions are completely ridiculous. I know nothing about administration. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) What are Livi fans thoughts on this?If I was a fan, I'd be tempted to hold off the money and let the club go into admin. Then start the club again, or get the fans to take it over once the administration process has taken place. I don't know if Livi really deserve another chance though, or whether my suggestions are completely ridiculous. I know nothing about administration. It's much easier to say when you're not involved, but I think I'd probably agree. Openly trumpeting that you're going to use next season's advance ticket money to pay last season's bills doesn't seem very bright. I think I'd be assuming the club was fucked anyway and rather than pour my money into the black hole I'd save it for post-adminstration when it might do more good. Edited May 27, 2009 by Yoss 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What are Livi fans thoughts on this?If I was a fan, I'd be tempted to hold off the money and let the club go into admin. Then start the club again, or get the fans to take it over once the administration process has taken place. I don't know if Livi really deserve another chance though, or whether my suggestions are completely ridiculous. I know nothing about administration. I think a second bout of administration in five years has to merit pretty stringent footballing penalties so that they are not allowed to gain a huge competitive advantage over their peers as they did last time (debts cleared, no points penalty, retention of their SPL status and a CIS Cup win on the back of a squad of players acquired by building debt that was never repaid). The Livvy support seem to have been defined as pro or anti Massone with the anti Massone ones being branded as the club killers...........kind of ironic huh? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Arch Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I think a second bout of administration in five years has to merit pretty stringent footballing penalties so that they are not allowed to gain a huge competitive advantage over their peers as they did last time I agree on this. If they were to come through administration over the summer, then I'd say a 10 point deduction would be required. On Yoss's point, I agree too. If it was my club, I don't know if I'd want to risk them going into admin. At the same time, once they've used all the season ticket money to pay off people, how are they going to fund new signings and general running costs? I'm not going to name names, but I know of one of their players who went for a large part of the season, receiving no wages. What future does this club have under Massone? I'd suggest none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 What are Livi fans thoughts on this?If I was a fan, I'd be tempted to hold off the money and let the club go into admin. Then start the club again, or get the fans to take it over once the administration process has taken place. I don't know if Livi really deserve another chance though, or whether my suggestions are completely ridiculous. I know nothing about administration. Your typing skills are obviously ok. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Does the SFL have the ten point penalty in place for teams who go into administration? I'm sorry if it's been covered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ObserverFromAfar Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) This is from their forum this morning..............QUOTE "I think people are looking too much into this, season tickets will be bought in June, July & August and and as the club have stated it is a SHORT TERM cash flow problem." UNQUOTE Phew, thank goodnes for that. Seems they are perfectly ok, so there is no need to concern ourselves. It'll all be fixed very soon as it's only short term. They had me worried there, but Massone is on top of things. That is such a relief! Let's be fair, Duncan. I think it is very short term problem too, because I don't see there being anything left in the short, medium or long term.... Edited May 27, 2009 by ObserverFromAfar 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ayrmad Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Does the SFL have the ten point penalty in place for teams who go into administration? I'm sorry if it's been covered. No, that's what is making our football unfair. Be responsible and probably not get anywhere or spend with gay abandon regardless of the consequences. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCL Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 So if Livi go under, are those who bought season tickets just dumb or do they have a case for some sort of refund...? They would be treated as creditors but I think anyone taking over the club should issue them the tickets as promised. It's unlikely that the buyer would pay again for another one and there will be plenty of available seats. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glasgow Loon Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Does the SFL have the ten point penalty in place for teams who go into administration? I'm sorry if it's been covered. The SFL management committee will decide on wether to apply any penalties for a club going into administration. That could mean any one of a number of penalties being approved by them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 The SFL management committee will decide on wether to apply any penalties for a club going into administration.That could mean any one of a number of penalties being approved by them. Thank you. I wasn't asking for selfish reasons or anything like that, honest... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Let's be fair, Duncan. I think it is very short term problem too, because I don't see there being anything left in the short, medium or long term.... Harsh but fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 The SFL management committee will decide on wether to apply any penalties for a club going into administration.That could mean any one of a number of penalties being approved by them. Clearly a ten point penalty for administration should apply, with a further ten point deduction under the 'dodgy swarthy man in charge telling lies' clause. Seems only fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzreid Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Clearly a ten point penalty for administration should apply, with a further ten point deduction under the 'dodgy swarthy man in charge telling lies' clause.Seems only fair. Not to mention the 10 point fine for 'being a bit shit'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Not to mention the 10 point fine for 'being a bit shit'. Just wait until the S.F.L. get the Italian/English phrasebook out and discover that Massone means 'never pays taxes', that'll be another ten points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) Not to mention the 10 point fine for 'being a bit shit'. I wonder if they have any concept what it will take to raise through donations the kind of money needed to make a difference to the debts. If every wage earning supporter who was at their last home game (Livvy supporter) walked into reception and put a tenner in a bucket, (it would form a story worthy of a movie script), and it would struggle to raise 10k..............which is less than the club has been losing per week. It would be amazing and fantastic.......but just wait til you try and do it for a second week. Donations in a bucket will raise maybe a couple of hundred quid in a week.......then it'll die off. That there seems to be a significant portion of the Livvy support still believing that what they are seeing is a wealthy chairman testing the commitment of the support by asking for donations at reception is both staggering and incredibly gauche. They just don't seem to see what's really going on. They are either kiddywinks full of life's amazing possibilities, they are trusting to a fault, or they have learning difficulties. There might well be other categories, but those three have to sit pretty prominently. It feels like the son of nuclear physicist who tells his Dad that he is wrong about sub atomic particle structure because his best pal Jimmy says all atoms are made of cheese and Coco Pops, and his pal Jimmy knows everything. Elements of the Livvy support are the son, and their best pal Jimmy is Massone. Edited May 27, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 I wonder if they have any concept what it will talke to raise through donations the kind of money needed to make a difference to the debts. If every wage earning supporter who was at their last home game (Livvy supporter) walked into reception and put a tenner in a bucket, (it would form a story worthy of a movie script), and it would struggle to raise 10k..............which is less than the club has been losing per week. It would be amazing and fantastic.......but just wait til you try and do it for a second week.Donations in a bucket will raise maybe a couple of hundred quid in a week.......then it'll die off. They've always had feet of clay though. When they went up from the First Division for the first time they had virtually no paying season ticket holders. There's never been a good enough sized fanbase there for them, or for anyone creating a club franchise in Scotland. It just dosn't work, there are always two teams in Glasgow that capture all the revenue from towns that don't have teams, like East Kilbride or (as was) Livingston. Now that's even more serious because, as you say, there's nobody there to donate. This also makes Massone's claims about 'short-term cashflow' look very dubious indeed. if you're paying off creditors with money that would ostensibly be used for team building, you need to have a plan to get a medium term cash injection. without that, players get sold, or move on and the club is struggling in the First Division with an ever-dwindling fanbase (and associated revenue streams). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Naitch Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 (edited) Clearly a ten point penalty for administration should apply, with a further ten point deduction under the 'dodgy swarthy man in charge telling lies' clause.Seems only fair. Not to mention the 10 point fine for 'being a bit shit'. Just wait until the S.F.L. get the Italian/English phrasebook out and discover that Massone means 'never pays taxes', that'll be another ten points. Sounds good to me. Livi to start next season on -40pts. No doubt they'll still manage to catch someone... Edited May 27, 2009 by The Naitch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Does the SFL have the ten point penalty in place for teams who go into administration? I'm sorry if it's been covered. Well, no, but it's standard across British football and the SFL Management Committee would face huge media outcry if they didn't impose such a penalty. In fact I think there would be a very big possibility of Livingston being demoted, if the decision comes during June (after June it's really too late to ask someone to step up). Especially as Massone will have no friends/allies within SFL. If I was a Livingston fans, I'd be keeping my money in my pocket. Buying season tickets or worse still "making donations at the reception desk" is simply propping up a collapsed regime, allowing it to run on for a few more weeks before the car crash comes. Better to save your money, and use it when it is really required - helping the Trust to try and rescue something from the wreckage, or providing cash investment to re-start a Community Club. I certainly wouldn't fund Mr Massone. SFL must also take responsibility now, as they've done f*ck all for months over the wages issue. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lzreid Posted May 27, 2009 Share Posted May 27, 2009 Sounds good to me. Livi to start next season on -40pts. No doubt they'll still manage to catch someone... You can't be that worried about your squad surely? Zing! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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