Guest Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 (edited) I don't think we're monitoring the situation closely at all, we're reacting to gossip and blethering pish in the way that people do on internet chatsites (and long may it continue). I don't think the SFL have much more idea of what's going on than we do; and they can't act on gossip. The SFL are even more incompetent than the SPL. Given that the SPL deliberately threw away about a quarter of a million quid to the Gretna administrators to simply keep the club on its feet last season, then the SFL will do a similar (but non financial) favour to Livingston by turning a blind eye to what is going on. They are as weak as dishwater with stuff like this. They will "monitor the situation" and pray that it all goes away. That Massone has run the club in such a slipshod manner, treated staff and creditors like shit, lied to everyone he comes into contact with, end up with all sorts avoidable debt and has got himself on the wrong side of the law but still be able to schmoo his way around the country with no real impact upon his life will tell him he is working in a land of very stupid people. As long as he gets away with it, he'll keep doing it. That he still has a few people backing him up in the hope that he'll wake up tomorrow and change his ways, must make him laugh. He'll have learned that the capacity of people to be complete dumbasses knows no bounds. If there's lead on the stadium roofs, it'll be gone very soon. If he sold and dismantled one of the stands, I'm sure there would be some who would believe him if he said it had been taken away for dry cleaning, and it would be coming back on the 30th of June. Edited June 27, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoss Posted June 26, 2009 Share Posted June 26, 2009 Yeah, I think I'm basically agreeing that there has been enough evidence of malpractice for the SFL to have acted more strongly more quickly. I suppose I'm just acknowledging that it's much easier to think that from the sidelines when you don't have the responsibility for it, and I don't really envy those who had to make the decisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lyle be back Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 How many turned up at the protest? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) How many turned up at the protest? I believe it was around 100 or so. That could be wrong, but its what I was told last night. the guy who witnessed it had also saw the people there at the first demo, so I guess he'd be as good a judge as any. Edited June 27, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Yeah, I think I'm basically agreeing that there has been enough evidence of malpractice for the SFL to have acted more strongly more quickly. I suppose I'm just acknowledging that it's much easier to think that from the sidelines when you don't have the responsibility for it, and I don't really envy those who had to make the decisions. The SFL simply aren't staffed to the degree where they could carry out an ongoing investigation. They are a governing body, but in terms of governance itself, they simply don't have the resources to deal with wayward members like Livingston on an ongoing basis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aberdeen Cowden Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The SFL are even more incompetent than the SPL. Given that the SPL deliberately threw away about a quarter of a million quid to the Gretna administrators to simply keep the club on its feet last season, then the SFL will do a similar (but non financial) favour to Livingston by turning a blind eye to what is going on. They are as weak as dishwater with stuff like this. They will "monitor the situation" and pray that it all goes away.That Massone has run the club in such a slipshod manner, treated staff and creditors like shit, lied to everyone he comes into contact with, end up with all sorts avoidable debt and has got himself on the wrong side of the law but still be able to schmoo his way around the country with no real impact upon his life will tell him he is working in a land of very stupid people. As long as he gets away with it, he'll keep doing it. That he still has a few people backing him up in the hope that he'll wake up tomorrow and change his ways, must make him laugh. He'll have learned that the capacity of people to be complete dumbasses knows no bounds. If there's lead on the stadium roofs, it'll be gone very soon. If he sold and dismantled one of the stands, I'm sure there would be some who would believe him if he said it had been taken away for dry cleaning, and it would be coming back on the 30th of June. This post sums the situation up perfectly - does the SFL have authority do do anything or do they just wait until more people get ripped off? I wonder if any of them even read P&B. They should do. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The SFL are even more incompetent than the SPL. Given that the SPL deliberately threw away about a quarter of a million quid to the Gretna administrators to simply keep the club on its feet last season, then the SFL will do a similar (but non financial) favour to Livingston by turning a blind eye to what is going on. They are as weak as dishwater with stuff like this. They will "monitor the situation" and pray that it all goes away.That Massone has run the club in such a slipshod manner, treated staff and creditors like shit, lied to everyone he comes into contact with, end up with all sorts avoidable debt and has got himself on the wrong side of the law but still be able to schmoo his way around the country with no real impact upon his life will tell him he is working in a land of very stupid people. As long as he gets away with it, he'll keep doing it. That he still has a few people backing him up in the hope that he'll wake up tomorrow and change his ways, must make him laugh. He'll have learned that the capacity of people to be complete dumbasses knows no bounds. If there's lead on the stadium roofs, it'll be gone very soon. If he sold and dismantled one of the stands, I'm sure there would be some who would believe him if he said it had been taken away for dry cleaning, and it would be coming back on the 30th of June. I think the situation was different with Gretna in that they were going belly up more than half way through the season. The SPL rightly or wrongly paid that money to try to ensure the season was completed. With Livi everyone knows before next season starts its only a matter of time before the final collapse and so the SFL should be taking charge of the situation now. If they go bust after the season has started, it will cost a lot more to put right. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 The SFL simply aren't staffed to the degree where they could carry out an ongoing investigation. They are a governing body, but in terms of governance itself, they simply don't have the resources to deal with wayward members like Livingston on an ongoing basis. No one expects the SFL to have the staff to carry out such an investigation. What they should do is instruct a financial expert, probably an insolvency practitioner to review the situation and report back to them in plain English. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) No one expects the SFL to have the staff to carry out such an investigation. What they should do is instruct a financial expert, probably an insolvency practitioner to review the situation and report back to them in plain English. That would definately finish them off. Edited June 27, 2009 by AND180Y 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scary Bear Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 No one expects the SFL to have the staff to carry out such an investigation. What they should do is instruct a financial expert, probably an insolvency practitioner to review the situation and report back to them in plain English. Maybe the SFL don't want to be the ones who are seen as having 'killed' a football club. They would probably rather leave that work to others. The local council are probably in the same boat as the SFL, in that they don't want to be seen as the one who killed the local football club. It will be interesting to see what's happens after the 30th June. It's getting awfully near the start of the new season. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 It will be interesting to see what's happens after the 30th June. It's getting awfully near the start of the new season. Livi players are supposed to report for duty on July first, according to their site. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghPar1975 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I know its hardly the gospel of truth but I read in the Sun this morning that the players have been told not to turn up for pre-season training starting on Monday. I know that with no coaches it would be nearly impossible to have a structured approach to training but surely the club would be looking at getting players back to do some basic warm ups and bounce games for basic fitness?? Also, it was interesting to read that the SFL/ SFA will only permit a takeover if all debts to outstanding creditors and players/ staff are paid in FULL prior to the takeover being signed off. I like many think Livi may crawl to the beginning of the season but I reckon they'll lose more players before the season starts and will have a very weakened team. Even although most SPL and Div 1 teams have little or no cash they must be sniffing about anyone half decent who's left. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedV Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Maybe the SFL don't want to be the ones who are seen as having 'killed' a football club. They would probably rather leave that work to others. I can absolutely guarantee that's the case! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Maybe the SFL don't want to be the ones who are seen as having 'killed' a football club. They would probably rather leave that work to others.The local council are probably in the same boat as the SFL, in that they don't want to be seen as the one who killed the local football club. It will be interesting to see what's happens after the 30th June. It's getting awfully near the start of the new season. Thats all well and good but what about the SFL looking after the interests of the rest of the league? There has to come a point where that becomes more important. I know its hardly the gospel of truth but I read in the Sun this morning that the players have been told not to turn up for pre-season training starting on Monday. I know that with no coaches it would be nearly impossible to have a structured approach to training but surely the club would be looking at getting players back to do some basic warm ups and bounce games for basic fitness??Also, it was interesting to read that the SFL/ SFA will only permit a takeover if all debts to outstanding creditors and players/ staff are paid in FULL prior to the takeover being signed off. I like many think Livi may crawl to the beginning of the season but I reckon they'll lose more players before the season starts and will have a very weakened team. Even although most SPL and Div 1 teams have little or no cash they must be sniffing about anyone half decent who's left. The SFA/SFL have always taken the stance that any football debt has had to be paid in full but ordinary creditors just take their chances in an admin order. If everything had had to be paid in full the league Scotland would now be minus: Airdrie Livingston Morton Motherwell Dundee and possibly some others I have forgotton about. I think football debt has always been taken to mean anything due to players, the SFA/SFL or other clubs. Debts like rates, general suppliers, electricity, rent will generally drop into the category of relying on whatever pay out there might be whether that's 1p in the pound, 100p in the pound or nothing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AND180Y Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Thats all well and good but what about the SFL looking after the interests of the rest of the league? There has to come a point where that becomes more important.The SFA/SFL have always taken the stance that any football debt has had to be paid in full but ordinary creditors just take their chances in an admin order. If everything had had to be paid in full the league Scotland would now be minus: Airdrie Livingston Morton Motherwell Dundee and possibly some others I have forgotton about. I think football debt has always been taken to mean anything due to players, the SFA/SFL or other clubs. Debts like rates, general suppliers, electricity, rent will generally drop into the category of relying on whatever pay out there might be whether that's 1p in the pound, 100p in the pound or nothing. I know the banks are opposing and not agreeing to admin prepacks and seem content to bite their nose off to spite their faces in other insolvency processes, but how do you think HMRC would respond to a plan to take them out of admin via a CVA? I assume the major creditors could force liquidation? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dee4life2137 Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 Did he do a runner with the Griffiths money? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonsilitis Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 I know the banks are opposing and not agreeing to admin prepacks and seem content to bite their nose off to spite their faces in other insolvency processes, but how do you think HMRC would respond to a plan to take them out of admin via a CVA? I assume the major creditors could force liquidation? Its an issue! I have found that if you talk it through with the Revenue guys at Haymarket Yards, provided they are no worse off (and they won't be if they get nothing either way) they will usually go along with it. The main issue for them is that there is new ownership who give commitments to maintain the PAYE/VAT, etc going forward. If there is no change in management/ownership they will not play ball. An exit via a CVA is about the only way forward as the league membership attaches to the company and a hive down out of admin will not work as the league membership will not pass into the new company. You have a chance of making a very low dividend work in a CVA with a football club due to the whole public interest/community club thing. But its a risk creditors will not go with it and its a big one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 livilions continues to astound There's now a poll in progress allowing people to vote on who they'd like to see run the club..."the fans themselves" is not a popular choice, McDougall is the uncrowned king from across the Forth. Bonkers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 livilions continues to astoundThere's now a poll in progress allowing people to vote on who they'd like to see run the club..."the fans themselves" is not a popular choice, McDougall is the uncrowned king from across the Forth. Bonkers. What's to astound? Do you know anything about the man? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 27, 2009 Share Posted June 27, 2009 (edited) What's to astound? Do you know anything about the man? Jimbo, I guess what astounds is that the fans have immediately leapt to the latest guy to say what the fans (currently) want to hear. That's all it is. LiviLions members all give the game away by the number of punters who call people by their full name (deferential respect), their Christian name (I am aligned with the owner), or surname (I don't like him anymore). I see the chap from Cowdenbeath has been referred to by his Christian name alone by someone.........the love is growing. Dom became Dominic which became Dominic Keane which became Keane. The same for Pearse....you know the rest. While "astound" may be a bit strong, there is no doubt that a trip to LiviLions can open up a perspective and kind of tilted logic that you don't find anywhere else. It's either hugely self congratulatory, or handbags at ten paces with varying degrees of bizarre thinking thrown into the mix. I too admit to finding it weirdly compulsive reading (but that is waning). It simply offers up a way of looking at the football world that is utterly unique........hence it's ability to "astound".......kind of. I think you are seeing less and less of the more mature and considered posters on the site, and that has given the "low on reasoning" posters a free rein. Edited June 27, 2009 by Guest 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.