Livingston - all the threads merged

[southview]

Just been catching up on all of the posts over the past couple of days on here and LL. I genuinely am not surprised with anything that comes out of Almondvale now (parking tickets, alleged Kenyan strikers...)

I also don't believe that Livi will go bust or be demoted to the third division. I just can't see either happening for a couple of reasons.

1) I know its dangerous, but I am presuming that WLC are the biggest creditor. Their position, rightly or wrongly, has clearly been to keep senior football in Livingston. I can't see them changing their stance now.

And even if it is the Inland Revenue was that is the biggest creditor, a deal can always be done, as has been proven with Accrington Stanley who recently faced a winding-up order because they owed Her Majesty £300k.

If administration does happen, I see a similar situation as to what happened with Clyde. A CVA would be drawn up whereby Livi pay whatever pitiful sum it would be to other creditors, but WLC remain out of this particular agreement so they can get every penny of what their due but allow the club to stay at Almondvale.

2) The SFL have left it too late to do anything. Their appalling lack of action on an issue that they have been aware of for some considerable time has been disgraceful and an embarrassment to the game.

Just for starters, players and staff haven't been paid on time (not to mention the numerous court cases) and instead of ruling with an iron fist, decided that they would accept Massone's "yes, there will be no problems in the future" at their tea and cakes meeting.

Well, look what is happening. This was always going to happen and it makes me so mad to think that Massone and this club is being allowed to carry on in such a disgusting manner. For Christ's sake, there is still no transfer embargo placed on them which should have been the FIRST sanction when the wages weren't getting paid on time.

If Livi go into admin, they will be deducted points. They will have to be as promotion for Airdrie and Cowdenbeath at this stage would leave those two clubs in an uneviable position.

Also, I don't think the SFL care if Livi field boys from the under-19 and under-17 squads in their matches. So long as they fulfil their fixtures, that's all that matters.

This whole mess stinks and it is a travesty that Livi but Massone in particular have been allowed to trade like this for so long.

That Massone has been allowed the platform in the national media to satisfy everyone with b*lls*it about "fans are to blame and must help as I can't fund this on my own" and "we will be SPL third force" and "everything will be okay" takes my breath away.

[Guest]

If it were any business, it would have gone out of business in 2004.

That Scottish Football is prepared to allow this sort of stuff to go on and do nothing makes them culpable..........but maybe of nothing more than neglection of duty.

That Massone is allowed to swan around as if nothing is wrong tells you all you need to know of why real hard nosed criminals love the EU so much, and the UK in particular. I await Massone's claim of his human rights being abused by those demanding that he leave..........I'm sure he's thought about every avenue to deflect any and all personal responsibility.

WLC better be damned careful. It's not the 700 or 800 householders who follow the club that they need to worry about. It's the 40,000 or 50,000 who couldn't care less about the football team, but just might be a bit more interested in who truly benefits from the club being there, and why the rules that apply to every household and business in the district aren't applied to a privately owned football team. To not act to the non payment of debt might well portray the roles played by certain councillors in a very bad light. A council stating that a football team in Livingston is a priority for their district is all good and well. Funding such a privately owned venture with public money is not within their remit...........and over the last few years, that is exactly what has been happening.

I'd be interested in knowing which other businesses in the district in rented property get to pay their rent a year in arrears. The change in a year in advance to a year in arrears effectively meant that the council handed over 150k of public money to the club. That they intend to drop the rent from 150k a year, to 50k means that the shortfall has to be found from elsewhere.......and that has to mean rate increases or a drop in services to balance the books.

Edited June 27, 2009 by Guest

[MCL]

Jimbo, I guess what astounds is that the fans have immediately leapt to the latest guy to say what the fans (currently) want to hear. That's all it is. LiviLions members all give the game away by the number of punters who call people by their full name (deferential respect), their Christian name (I am aligned with the owner), or surname (I don't like him anymore). I see the chap from Cowdenbeath has been referred to by his Christian name alone by someone.........the love is growing.

Dom became Dominic which became Dominic Keane which became Keane. The same for Pearse....you know the rest.

While "astound" may be a bit strong, there is no doubt that a trip to LiviLions can open up a perspective and kind of tilted logic that you don't find anywhere else. It's either hugely self congratulatory, or handbags at ten paces with varying degrees of bizarre thinking thrown into the mix. I too admit to finding it weirdly compulsive reading (but that is waning).

It simply offers up a way of looking at the football world that is utterly unique........hence it's ability to "astound".......kind of.

I think you are seeing less and less of the more mature and considered posters on the site, and that has given the "low on reasoning" posters a free rein.

The people like Scarface/Plug/Pedro/Livinews you mean ? He defended Pearse, then fell out with Flynn so hailed Angelo when he took over and now wants Massone out and sees Gordon as the next saviour. Won't be long now until McDougall is the worst thing to have happened to Livi :lol:

He was exactly the same as a Jambo when he wanted the Pieman out and Romanov to come in to save his favourite team.

[Guest]

I see the official site (with one of the poorest "Latest News" sections imagineable) has another Massone special announcement. It's an invitation to Neil Rankine and the Trust to sit around a table and "avoid insolvency". It states that creditors must be paid (especially WLC, so by definition, some creditors have been deemed less worthy than others).

All that can be realistically taken from this is that they (being Massone, Franchi et al), are now very much cornered with nowhere left to run. Making some disclosure as to the true scale of the mess seems to be on the cards. It has of course, always been an option, but is only being selected now because there is absolutely no other lies left to tell.

The Leigh Griffiths money and the other sum from the sale of Davidson and McKay raised 170k or so. The cash from the SFL was around 50k or so. That's getting on for 220k. It hasn't made any sort of dent in the favoured debts. So where has it gone?

The announcement is the first faltering steps on the road to offical affirmation of how much of a liar Massone's really is.

If this is (and it certainly looks like) a half hearted and despairing attempt at truth and reconciliation simply because there is nowhere else to run, then the milk of human kindness needs to be given in very small measures. This is not a regime who want to tell the truth. This is a regime that will say whatever is required to get money. It's all finally unravelling. The boy ambassador will now exit stage left. His moment in the sun has come and gone.

Doubtless someone will consider this to be a "positive move to take the club forward".

Interestingly, Neil Rankine now seems to be part of the Livingston heirarchy. "Angelo Massone in agreement with Neil Rankine"............. I know I'd be very wary. Nothing will be what it seems to be. There are agendas being worked here that most certainly are not going to be disclosed. Roll up, roll up....

What follows (in bold) is the Official Site statement:

"The future of Livingston Football Club is more important than any other matter today.

Now is the time to save the club and overcome any divisions or squabbles that have occured in the past. It is imperative that we avoid, at all costs, any threat of insolvency and pay off all creditors especially the West Lothian Council.

Angelo Massone, in agreement with Neil Rankine, would like to extend an invitation to The Trust, Gordon McDougall and every other investor to come together to co-operate to save the club.

LFC must be our first priority.

Let us all gather round a table, stand united, save Livingston Football Club and manage the club together. By consolidating our future in Division 1, we can create a great future for our club."

Edited June 28, 2009 by Guest

[LLD]

The people like Scarface/Plug/Pedro/Livinews you mean ? He defended Pearse, then fell out with Flynn so hailed Angelo when he took over and now wants Massone out and sees Gordon as the next saviour. Won't be long now until McDougall is the worst thing to have happened to Livi :lol:

He was exactly the same as a Jambo when he wanted the Pieman out and Romanov to come in to save his favourite team.

In the current situation what do you really think there is to be gained by writing shite like this Alex?

It's totally unnecessary.

Edited June 28, 2009 by LLD

[Guest Wall E]

Doubtless someone will consider this to be a "positive move to take the club forward".

You're right.

'Benchwarmer' has crawled out from under his stone on the livilions site and as well as his usual personal insults he seems to view this latest announcement as a 'positive' sign.

Talking of personal insults, 'MCL' seems also to have re-emerged back onto this site too after a few days in the dark.

The personal insults against Livi fans and a hatred of the Trust so manifest that they'd argue Massone is a hard done to poor soul until the day the clubs is padlocked shut for the last time?

'Benchwarmer' - 'MCL' - one and the same - they couldn't be, could they? 

He's fooling no-one.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Wall E

[Jacobite_Dundee]

I think unity might be improved if those in charge of Livi adopt some honesty with the fans in terms of the club's situation.

Good luck.

[Guest]

I think unity might be improved if those in charge of Livi adopt some honesty with the fans in terms of the club's situation.

Good luck.

I actually think it is too late. Massone and Rankine get others round a table. What are they going to do? We all know the answer.......it is in the statement from Massone......he used the "investor" word. He wants people to give him money in exchange for either a share of the club, or some tepid "Trust Board" position. If the LiviTrust have 20k in the bank, Massone and Rankine want it.......nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone who gets involved in giving this mob money needs a brain scan.

The asset stripping is complete. Now it's about fleecing "investors"........new money.

If any of the proposals involve Massone and Rankine still being at the club, then people really do need to walk away.

Massone is probably scared to death of administration, and with good reason. It would mean disclosure of what he has been doing..........and that is not something he wants.

I ask again. 220k has come into the club in the last month. Where is it?

Edited June 28, 2009 by Guest

[Skyline Drifter]

I ask again. 220k has come into the club in the last month. Where is it?

I doubt if Dundee have actually physically paid money yet for a guy signed on Friday. Depends what they've agreed of course but they certainly wouldn't have paid before Griffiths signed a contract and that took place Friday afternoon.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Skyline Drifter

[jimbo]

I actually think it is too late. Massone and Rankine get others round a table. What are they going to do? We all know the answer.......it is in the statement from Massone......he used the "investor" word. He wants people to give him money in exchange for either a share of the club, or some tepid "Trust Board" position. If the LiviTrust have 20k in the bank, Massone and Rankine want it.......nothing more, nothing less.

Anyone who gets involved in giving this mob money needs a brain scan.

The asset stripping is complete. Now it's about fleecing "investors"........new money.

If any of the proposals involve Massone and Rankine still being at the club, then people really do need to walk away.

Massone is probably scared to death of administration, and with good reason. It would mean disclosure of what he has been doing..........and that is not something he wants.

I ask again. 220k has come into the club in the last month. Where is it?

I would hazard a guess that the Griffiths money has not yet reached his grubby fingers and I am hoping that one or more of ther creditors is ready to nip in before it does. For the rest I am not sure. He has had one round of players wages to pay (don't think they have had this months yet) and two instalments of council rent. As for the rest well who knows - bar bills, petrol for the Jag...insert as appropriate.

I never thought I'd welcome administrators being called in to the club but it seems that is the only way to get rid of this disaster of a man.

And MCL, you really are a nasty individual.

[MCL]

You're right.

'Benchwarmer' has crawled out from under his stone on the livilions site and as well as his usual personal insults he seems to view this latest announcement as a 'positive' sign.

Talking of personal insults, 'MCL' seems also to have re-emerged back onto this site too after a few days in the dark.

The personal insults against Livi fans and a hatred of the Trust so manifest that they'd argue Massone is a hard done to poor soul until the day the clubs is padlocked shut for the last time?

'Benchwarmer' - 'MCL' - one and the same - they couldn't be, could they? 

He's fooling no-one.

Benchwarmer is obviously fooling you then because we're not one and the same.

It wasn't dark where I was, in fact it was positively sunny in Luxembourg where I was away on business. CDE will confirm that if you ask him.

[MCL]

In the current situation what do you really think there is to be gained by writing shite like this Alex?

It's totally unnecessary.

It's not shite though Dave, it's exactly how he goes about his business. As Duncan says, one minute it's first name terms then surnames then finally surnames turned into something else. i.e. Madsone.

He's what the Americans call high maintenance.

Every action has a reaction. Maybe if he stopped with his crap then I wouldn't feel the need to respond ?

[Ivo den Bieman]

I imagine there's a spaghetti-western style wagon train of creditors waiting to pounce on the money as soon as it leaves the Dens car park. Massone won't see a penny- and this "unity" chatter is too little, too late.

MacDougall is being talked up as a viable alternative on Livi lions and apparently made a good impression at the protest on Friday. Why on earth he wants to buy into Livingston is anyone's guess, I suspect he could do with one of Duncan Freemason's headscans. It's rather like a new captain taking over at the bridge just as the ship, in flames, capsizes and sinks.

The question is whether Livingston are allowed to enter admin now- which leaves MacDougall and the Trust in a strong position as the only likely interested party to take over- or whether liquidation is forced through, with the only option left to a few diehards (MacDougall will vanish in this scenario) to restart in the East of Scotland seniors, like Gretna have done.

[Guest zupa]

Anyone who gets involved in giving this mob money needs a brain scan.

And immediately should be sectioned.

[keyser_soze]

Selling a Srixon limited edition 'Shark Bite' tour golf bag.

9.5" diameter top, 6 way divider, loads of pockets for balls, waterproofs etc. Shoulder strap and shower cover included. 6 months old, used about 8-10 times, (I prefer to carry my clubs rather than using a trolley)

Price - £90 to include postage (paypal), £75 if collected from Glenrothes cash on collection.

Pics -

[Homer Thompson]

I see the official site (with one of the poorest "Latest News" sections imagineable) has another Massone special announcement. It's an invitation to Neil Rankine and the Trust to sit around a table and "avoid insolvency". It states that creditors must be paid (especially WLC, so by definition, some creditors have been deemed less worthy than others).

All that can be realistically taken from this is that they (being Massone, Franchi et al), are now very much cornered with nowhere left to run. Making some disclosure as to the true scale of the mess seems to be on the cards. It has of course, always been an option, but is only being selected now because there is absolutely no other lies left to tell.

The Leigh Griffiths money and the other sum from the sale of Davidson and McKay raised 170k or so. The cash from the SFL was around 50k or so. That's getting on for 220k. It hasn't made any sort of dent in the favoured debts. So where has it gone?

The announcement is the first faltering steps on the road to offical affirmation of how much of a liar Massone's really is.

If this is (and it certainly looks like) a half hearted and despairing attempt at truth and reconciliation simply because there is nowhere else to run, then the milk of human kindness needs to be given in very small measures. This is not a regime who want to tell the truth. This is a regime that will say whatever is required to get money. It's all finally unravelling. The boy ambassador will now exit stage left. His moment in the sun has come and gone.

Doubtless someone will consider this to be a "positive move to take the club forward".

Interestingly, Neil Rankine now seems to be part of the Livingston heirarchy. "Angelo Massone in agreement with Neil Rankine"............. I know I'd be very wary. Nothing will be what it seems to be. There are agendas being worked here that most certainly are not going to be disclosed. Roll up, roll up....

What follows (in bold) is the Official Site statement:

"The future of Livingston Football Club is more important than any other matter today.

Now is the time to save the club and overcome any divisions or squabbles that have occured in the past. It is imperative that we avoid, at all costs, any threat of insolvency and pay off all creditors especially the West Lothian Council.

Angelo Massone, in agreement with Neil Rankine, would like to extend an invitation to The Trust, Gordon McDougall and every other investor to come together to co-operate to save the club.

LFC must be our first priority.

Let us all gather round a table, stand united, save Livingston Football Club and manage the club together. By consolidating our future in Division 1, we can create a great future for our club."

Im confused, Livingston are in absolutely no danger of admin

[Aberdeen Cowden]

I imagine there's a spaghetti-western style wagon train of creditors waiting to pounce on the money as soon as it leaves the Dens car park. Massone won't see a penny- and this "unity" chatter is too little, too late.

MacDougall is being talked up as a viable alternative on Livi lions and apparently made a good impression at the protest on Friday. Why on earth he wants to buy into Livingston is anyone's guess, I suspect he could do with one of Duncan Freemason's headscans. It's rather like a new captain taking over at the bridge just as the ship, in flames, capsizes and sinks.

The question is whether Livingston are allowed to enter admin now- which leaves MacDougall and the Trust in a strong position as the only likely interested party to take over- or whether liquidation is forced through, with the only option left to a few diehards (MacDougall will vanish in this scenario) to restart in the East of Scotland seniors, like Gretna have done.

What on earth is Gordon thinking about ? I do hope he comes to his senses before he gets his fingers badly burned.

[AND180Y]

And it came to pass that the new Messiah (Gordon) Said:

Suffer Livi Fans, and do not hinder them from coming to me; for the kingdom of the SPL is out of reach.

My downtrodden Livi fans, I am the Way, the Truth and the Life; do not listen to Massone who seeks the ruin of your club, his bank account is empty, his dreams are in the sky; but listen to Me your saviour, who offers you redemption today and who will not over-spend in an attempt to reach the promised land.

[Guest]

What on earth is Gordon thinking about ? I do hope he comes to his senses before he gets his fingers badly burned.

MacDougall will want the club..............not a little piece of it. His idea of how it can work is not the same as Massone's. He will only take it on if he understands every last penny of the existing debt. When he uncovers that, he will probably walk away. A club that is losing something akin to 40k a month, and with existing debts of probably half a million, and possibly close to a million is a poisoned chalice in this day and age. Even a re-structuring of the debt would see them on a smaller budget than now for years to come. Lower budgets bring lower performances. Lower performances bring lower crowds. Lower crowds bring less revenue.

Livingston have not hit the bottom of the curve in terms of attendances. While I don't think they'll drop to three figures, they might get perilously close.

[Ivo den Bieman]

If Livingston start the season with Massone still as some kind of figurehead, in administration, I can easily see attendances of fewer than 1,000 being the norm. Rather like Chester City under their bonkers American owner Terry Smith, they started their first conference season under him in absolute ruins off the park, with the fans united in their desire to see the back of him, and fewer than 600 turned up for their first home match (normally they'd get 2-2,500).

Meanwhile on Livi Lions the rumour is that if Massone stays he plans to appoint the clubs American goalkeeping coach as the new manager. We can only assume that Livingston's youth team will actually be taking to the park. there are also dire predictions of stalling legal action by Massone in the event of administration, which will drag this situation on for months to come. Quite why he'd bother to stall is anyone's guess. Now that his "plan" to buy the stadium has been exposed as sheer fantasy, and Griffiths having been sold, there would seem to be no financial incentive whatever for him to stay.

Edited June 28, 2009 by Ivo den Bieman