Savage Henry Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 For the record, we did take at least 400 of the crowd today. I'd be surprised if it wasn't closer to 500. Are you suggesting there were fewer than two hundred Albion Rovers fans? Travelling support is always exaggerated, especially when people with an agenda are counting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Are you suggesting there were fewer than two hundred Albion Rovers fans?Travelling support is always exaggerated, especially when people with an agenda are counting. If the figure is correct (I have my doubts) then yes, I am. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airdrie76 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 (edited) I'm also astonished at the comments attributed to Kenny Black. In no way whatsover is it set in stone that Airdrie would go up if Livingston go down - they could run with 9, they could promote or save another club, etc. etc. and within the rules there is nothing giving Airdrie open priority. Most other leagues do not demote clubs for entering the beginning of administration (certainly not in England), so why should people imagine it to be the case in the SFL? Neither do I miss the irony of an Airdrie United official talkibg about unpaid wages, insolvency, and unfair advantage... Re your first paragraph, you are right. When the SFL Chief Executive said that Airdrie and Cowdenbeath would be promoted if Livingston went out of business I'm sure he meant something else entirely. As for your second para and the irony of Airdrie Utd talking about unpaid wages, insolvency and unfair advantage please elaborate. Airdrie Utd have always paid wages on time, have always been solvent and have been at a disadvantage given Livi were signing better players they couldn't afford or pay. As for Airdrieonians there debt was down to the white elephant that is a 10,000 all seater stadium. Quite how that gave us an unfair advantage I'm not sure given it actually resulted in us signing sh1tter players as we erm had no money. Simple really. You are aware though that the SFL in 2002 refused to allow Airdrie to do the exact thing that they said on Thursday Livingston could actually do? Edited August 1, 2009 by Airdrie76 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Why just the 10 points HibeeJibee? I would have thought going into administration for a second time should incurr at least 20 points. That would be fair in my opinion. 15 point deduction at a stretch... But what if there was 30 or 40 years between the admins? It was reported in the press last week that if Livi went bust Airdrie would replace them. Also considering Jim Ballantyne's place at the SFL it's fairly obvious he had good reason to assume we would be promoted. I think his comments are spot on. Don't see why you would be astonished. Well, that may be fair enough. I still think it's arrogant for Kenny Black to be going on as is his club have been robbed of a mandatory entitlement. Particularlt when that club is Airdrie Utd... I agree that establishing a holding company, which pays money to the SFL, thus allowing Livi FC to avoid paying anything to its creditors, is very dodgy. The holding company concept is dodgy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I think a far fairer rule would be to apply administration penalties in an exponential manner. Thus, 10 points to the power of two administrations = 102 Livingston start on -100. Everyone happy. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hmm... I reckon Raith could be struggling this season, VT. Better make it -109 points just to make sure. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Re your first paragraph, you are right. When the SFL Chief Executive said that Airdrie and Cowdenbeath would be promoted if Livingston went out of business I'm sure he meant something else entirely. I wasn't aware that David Longmuir had the power do do that. Ultimately the clubs decide. And since Livingston have not gone out of business, I'm confused as to what Black actually means... As for your second para and the irony of Airdrie Utd talking about unpaid wages, insolvency and unfair advantage please elaborate. Airdrie Utd have always paid wages on time, have always been solvent and have been at a disadvantage given Livi were signing better players they couldn't afford or pay.As for Airdrieonians there debt was down to the white elephant that is a 10,000 all seater stadium. Quite how that gave us an unfair advantage I'm not sure given it actually resulted in us signing sh1tter players as we erm had no money. Simple really. Black's gripe is that Livi remain in a higher division than his club, because they've dodged being wound up. 'Football in Airdrie' did pretty much the same thing: going bust > forming a new firm and buying up another club not in the bottom tier > running along fine in their old stadium. The road taken may be different, but the results are essentially the same. 'Football in Airdrie' moved in murky waters, and came out with a fish (having avoided giving fish to their creditors) - now, 'Football in Livingston' has done the same. Livingston happen to have kept their original disguise. You are aware though that the SFL in 2002 refused to allow Airdrie to do the exact thing that they said on Thursday Livingston could actually do? Not quite, but I'm not wanting to get into a debate on this. Ultimately, Livingston FC have found a new set of investors who will avoid the club being liquidated or suffering prolonged admin. It is bad if they are dodging creditors but giving a bond to the SFL - but frankly I don't see why the SFL should be taking a bond off them. If you're policy to a club entering financial trouble is going to be "give us a huge sum of money to sit in our bank account", I can't see it being used much. You are aware though that the SFL in 2002 refused to allow Airdrie to do the exact thing that they said on Thursday Livingston could actually do? And as a second point on this: if precedent is to be observed, how do Gretna FC fans feel now? Were they given an opportunity to "do a Livingston"? Or even the opportunity to "do an Airdrie"? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Hmm... I reckon Raith could be struggling this season, VT. Better make it -109 points just to make sure. We need to give both sides a fair and equal chance. -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Did the Gretna Trust or a potential buyer have a sound business plan with them for their meeting with the SFL? Serious question. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skyline Drifter Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I wasn't aware that David Longmuir had the power do do that. Ultimately the clubs decide. And since Livingston have not gone out of business, I'm confused as to what Black actually means... No, the League Management Committee would decide and in fairness it was already common knowledge and precedent that it would indeed have been Airdrie United and Cowdenbeath that went up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 No, the League Management Committee would decide and in fairness it was already common knowledge and precedent that it would indeed have been Airdrie United and Cowdenbeath that went up. OK I didn't appreciate that. But I'm still confused as to what's been taken away from Airdrie - as Livi haven't been liquidated, in fact have got new investors and may not be in long-term admin? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Did the Gretna Trust or a potential buyer have a sound business plan with them for their meeting with the SFL? Serious question. Yes and no, but regardless... Gretna were handed totally different treatment to Livi by the SFL. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 HibeeJibee, why do you think a ten point penalty would be enough? Surely that's fine for the first occasion, but for the second, another ten should be added on? In my opinion that would be fair and I'm sure the Livi supporters would not argue too much with that either. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds are Forever Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well, that may be fair enough. I still think it's arrogant for Kenny Black to be going on as is his club have been robbed of a mandatory entitlement. No he hasn't. He has simply stated that it is not right that we do not know what league we will be in, just one week before the start of the season. He is quite right to complain about that, how the hell is he meant to build a squad in that situation ? One minute he is looking at 2nd Division players and the next minute it looks like Livi are going bust and he will need 1st Division players. He also probably feels agrieved that due to Airdrie 'living within their means' and not 'cheating', he now has 2 relegations on his CV (obviously there were other factors, such as him being a poor manager ), while one of the clubs that 'cheated' looks like getting away with it. I'm not KB's biggest fan by a long way but I do have sympathy for him, and what he said was spot on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 HibeeJibee, why do you think a ten point penalty would be enough? Surely that's fine for the first occasion, but for the second, another ten should be added on? In my opinion that would be fair and I'm sure the Livi supporters would not argue too much with that either. Why shouldn't another ninety be added on, for good measure? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Why shouldn't another ninety be added on, for good measure? Well, as was already pointed out (I thought it was you that pointed it out, I could be wrong)adding something like 50 points would be like giving somebody 1000 years for murder - pointless, no pun intended. No, ten points could be easily recouped by Livi. Twenty points would not be so easy to claw back and of course it would send out a message that the SFL will take tough action if teams go into administration. Again I can't see Livi complaining too much about that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monster Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Paul Martin's article certainly seemed to fire his team up anyway. Good on Albion Rovers, at least on the field football is still reasonably fair. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vikingTON Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 Well, as was already pointed out (I thought it was you that pointed it out, I could be wrong)adding something like 50 points would be like giving somebody 1000 years for murder - pointless, no pun intended. I know, but the Americans do it and I reckon it sends out a good lesson. It wasn't me btw, I'm all for it. B) -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdinburghLivi Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I doubt anything will happen to us from the SFL but we'll get relegated automatically anyway. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qos_75 Posted August 1, 2009 Share Posted August 1, 2009 I doubt anything will happen to us from the SFL but we'll get relegated automatically anyway. I agree with your first point but disagree with your second. Without a points deduction I think you will stay up. I think the bond between your players will be stronger having gone through what they have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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