Livingston - all the threads merged

[ATLIS]

10 minutes ago, Scrutinizer said:

Tactics again baffling today, every single game Livi are overrun in midfield,today were second to every ball in the first Half,the whole defence  where shaky  Bailey on the wing done nothing,Omeonga has played 2 good games 1 against Hibs the rest he's been shite this season,runs about doing nothing,Pittman has played 2 good games before the defeat to Celtic,and has been anonymous  in every  other game he's played in,Holts done ok but is defensive minded all his good work is done in his own half.Livi don't have a midfield that can take the game forward in an attacking sense, they rely on the wings too much. 

Pittman,Omeonga,Baily,Forrest,Holt were all poor, the rest were just as bad
 

No one fucking cares

[Cptn Hooch]

Tactics again baffling today, every single game Livi are overrun in midfield,today were second to every ball in the first Half,the whole defence  where shaky  Bailey on the wing done nothing,Omeonga has played 2 good games 1 against Hibs the rest he's been shite this season,runs about doing nothing,Pittman has played 2 good games before the defeat to Celtic,and has been anonymous  in every  other game he's played in,Holts done ok but is defensive minded all his good work is done in his own half.Livi don't have a midfield that can take the game forward in an attacking sense, they rely on the wings too much. 
Pittman,Omeonga,Baily,Forrest,Holt were all poor, the rest were just as bad
 

Yay this guy's back [emoji30]

[Guest]

Anderson out for 6 weeks. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/bruce-anderson-aberdeen-exit-leap-26510042.amp

[Guest]

I liked the starting formation yesterday of Forrest centre forward and Nouble on the right. Forrest can play centre forward in the Bruce Anderson style. That's playing as the highest point for us, on the opposition defensive line, available for through balls in behind. He can't do the back to goal stuff Anderson can but he's reasonably similar. Nouble is great on the right. He can go wide or drift central into the space behind the centre forward. He did that yesterday when he produced the lofted pass for Shinnie's chance. So I want Nouble nailed down on the right. Not at centre forward. I want Forrest or Soto at centre forward.

So that leaves the left and Bailey struggled there in the early part of yesterday's match. Forrest can play left if Soto starts centre forward. Shinnie can do well on the left and with Penrice overlapping he can make his runs infield. Montaño's a good option too, gives more defensive cover and is more conventionally left-sided which holds the structure.

 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

20 minutes ago, FreedomFarter said:

I liked the starting formation yesterday of Forrest centre forward and Nouble on the right. Forrest can play centre forward in the Bruce Anderson style. That's playing as the highest point for us, on the opposition defensive line, available for through balls in behind. He can't do the back to goal stuff Anderson can but he's reasonably similar. Nouble is great on the right. He can go wide or drift central into the space behind the centre forward. He did that yesterday when he produced the lofted pass for Shinnie's chance. So I want Nouble nailed down on the right. Not at centre forward. I want Forrest or Soto at centre forward.

So that leaves the left and Bailey struggled there in the early part of yesterday's match. Forrest can play left if Soto starts centre forward. Shinnie can do well on the left and with Penrice overlapping he can make his runs infield. Montaño's a good option too, gives more defensive cover and is more conventionally left-sided which holds the structure.

 

 

Nouble started up front didn't he? Then switched to the wing after they scored.

 

Agree with pretty much everything you've said, although i think Nouble can play equally good on the left, and if Forrest is in the centre of a front 3 i'd rather have Bailey on the right, as i agree he struggled on the left.

Forrest on the left and Bailey on the right is their best positions, Nouble can switch to either side depending on who he's playing with , ideally we'd want Forrest-Anderson-Nouble, but that looks like being knackered if reports on the length of Anderson's recovery are correct, so yep, get Soto centre.

All that is assuming Forrest will put in the same effort he did in the games leading up to us playing Celtic and Hearts, otherwise drop him and get Nouble-Soto-Bailey in a front 3, or as you said, Montano-Soto-Nouble.

Dunno what exactly Martindale's game plan was starting Nouble up front, maybe winning headers to flick on to Forrest and Bailey, or holding the ball up and laying it off to one of them, but it went out the window as soon as Hearts scored, and he shifted onto the wing. Just wish he'd scrap it altogether and keep him on either wing. 

[Menga Bus]

I feel like Soto has a good ability of holding the ball up and linking others into play with his passing, but we’re really yet to see any sort of goal threat from him

[LiviLion]

Anderson being out for the season is a massive blow for us, I can't see who we reliably stick up front for a semi-regular goal threat.

Soto has looked lively but don't think I've seen anything from him yet to suggest he can be a goalscorer.

Forrest could work but we lose a lot if he's not on the wing IMO.

Shinnie we already know doesn't really work, maybe a different story with an in-form Forrest and Nouble on the wings, but still wouldn't be confident of him replacing the threat we get with Anderson.

Chukwuemeka and Nouble are wingers, don't want to see them up front, and I doubt Bailey comes into the discussion.
 

 

Knowing Martindale, we'll see Nouble, Forrest, Soto, Montano, Shinnie, Chukwuemeka, and Sibbald tried up front while Anderson's out.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, LiviLion said:

Anderson being out for the season is a massive blow for us, I can't see who we reliably stick up front for a semi-regular goal threat.

Soto has looked lively but don't think I've seen anything from him yet to suggest he can be a goalscorer.

Forrest could work but we lose a lot if he's not on the wing IMO.

Shinnie we already know doesn't really work, maybe a different story with an in-form Forrest and Nouble on the wings, but still wouldn't be confident of him replacing the threat we get with Anderson.

Chukwuemeka and Nouble are wingers, don't want to see them up front, and I doubt Bailey comes into the discussion.
 

 

Knowing Martindale, we'll see Nouble, Forrest, Soto, Montano, Shinnie, Chukwuemeka, and Sibbald tried up front while Anderson's out.

For some deranged reason i wouldn't mind seeing Montano up front, i mean he's a bit like Chucky that he gets the ball tangled in his feet anytime i've seen him with the ball in the box, but he does create havoc, and just maybe, he'd score a goal and it would start him off on a goal spree.

Got absolutely nothing to suggest it would work, other than a shot in the dark hunch.

[Cptn Hooch]

For some deranged reason i wouldn't mind seeing Montano up front, i mean he's a bit like Chucky that he gets the ball tangled in his feet anytime i've seen him with the ball in the box, but he does create havoc, and just maybe, he'd score a goal and it would start him off on a goal spree.
Got absolutely nothing to suggest it would work, other than a shot in the dark hunch.

Montano has been so close to scoring a few times. I really like him as a player and hope we'll see more of him next season. Wouldn't be against Forrest in the middle with Montano and Nouble either side but I think Soto looks more of a straight swap for Anderson in terms of style

[EdinburghLivi]

6 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

Montano has been so close to scoring a few times. I really like him as a player and hope we'll see more of him next season. Wouldn't be against Forrest in the middle with Montano and Nouble either side but I think Soto looks more of a straight swap for Anderson in terms of style

Pretty much what I was going to type word for word. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

2 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

For some deranged reason i wouldn't mind seeing Montano up front, i mean he's a bit like Chucky that he gets the ball tangled in his feet anytime i've seen him with the ball in the box, but he does create havoc, and just maybe, he'd score a goal and it would start him off on a goal spree.
Got absolutely nothing to suggest it would work, other than a shot in the dark hunch.

Montano has been so close to scoring a few times. I really like him as a player and hope we'll see more of him next season. Wouldn't be against Forrest in the middle with Montano and Nouble either side but I think Soto looks more of a straight swap for Anderson in terms of style

Sounds all very logical, but with DM's track record of overthinking things and trying out different selections up front, what is perceived as logical thinking goes right out the window.

Just waiting on us going with Chucky and Soto up front in a 4-4-2 line up of;

 

                                       Stryjek

 

Devlin           Fitzwater            Obileye            Penrice

 

Nouble           Holt                Pittman            Forrest

 

                            Soto          Chucky 

Edited March 24, 2022 by LIVIFOREVER

[ATLIS]

5 hours ago, LiviLion said:

Anderson being out for the season is a massive blow for us, I can't see who we reliably stick up front for a semi-regular goal threat.

Soto has looked lively but don't think I've seen anything from him yet to suggest he can be a goalscorer.

Forrest could work but we lose a lot if he's not on the wing IMO.

Shinnie we already know doesn't really work, maybe a different story with an in-form Forrest and Nouble on the wings, but still wouldn't be confident of him replacing the threat we get with Anderson.

Chukwuemeka and Nouble are wingers, don't want to see them up front, and I doubt Bailey comes into the discussion.
 

 

Knowing Martindale, we'll see Nouble, Forrest, Soto, Montano, Shinnie, Chukwuemeka, and Sibbald tried up front while Anderson's out.

I did a little bit of a stats insight into this yesterday. Soto historically shows really good stats, but is a gamble for us at this stage. Essentially we're going to need Pittman, Forrest, Penrice and Obileye to really shine over the next two games in particular.

If Soto can bring Forrest into the game more and Nouble does the same I'd be happy with: LW Forrest - ST Soto - RW Nouble

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, ATLIS said:

I did a little bit of a stats insight into this yesterday. Soto historically shows really good stats, but is a gamble for us at this stage. Essentially we're going to need Pittman, Forrest, Penrice and Obileye to really shine over the next two games in particular.

If Soto can bring Forrest into the game more and Nouble does the same I'd be happy with: LW Forrest - ST Soto - RW Nouble

Bit disappointing from Obileye's goal contribution, he scored a fair few in the Championship, some from pens, but expected him to fill the void Guthrie left, and Halkett before that, and get us goals from set pieces. Fitzwater is decent with shots in and around the 6 yard box, between them we could pose a goal threat from set pieces in the last 7 games but Obileye needs to be more aggressive attacking the ball.

We've got Nouble, Obileye, and Fitzwater, with Nouble the target man from long throw ins, pretty much the successful formula we had with Gallagher being the target man for flick ons to Lithgow & Halkett. We have seen it starting to work in recent games too, so lets get back to Devlin lobbing that ball into the box more, Nouble is the key component, same as Dec was, and Obileye needs to get himself at the back post with Fitzwater ready to pounce on knock downs and loose balls.

[Cptn Hooch]

Bit disappointing from Obileye's goal contribution, he scored a fair few in the Championship, some from pens, but expected him to fill the void Guthrie left, and Halkett before that, and get us goals from set pieces. Fitzwater is decent with shots in and around the 6 yard box, between them we could pose a goal threat from set pieces in the last 7 games but Obileye needs to be more aggressive attacking the ball.
We've got Nouble, Obileye, and Fitzwater, with Nouble the target man from long throw ins, pretty much the successful formula we had with Gallagher being the target man for flick ons to Lithgow & Halkett. We have seen it starting to work in recent games too, so lets get back to Devlin lobbing that ball into the box more, Nouble is the key component, same as Dec was, and Obileye needs to get himself at the back post with Fitzwater ready to pounce on knock downs and loose balls.

Can't say I'm disappointed with Obileye's goal return. It's a step up from the championship plus he played in midfield for Queens. He's been solely a centre back for us and has scored a few important goals for us so far this season. Both he and Fitzwater have a pretty decent shot on them for being defenders so it's about us getting them more opportunities in the box next season now that they've formed a partnership

[19QOS19]

Can't say I'm disappointed with Obileye's goal return. It's a step up from the championship plus he played in midfield for Queens. He's been solely a centre back for us and has scored a few important goals for us so far this season. Both he and Fitzwater have a pretty decent shot on them for being defenders so it's about us getting them more opportunities in the box next season now that they've formed a partnership

It was probably split between CB and midfield tbh. Regardless, the goals he scored for us tended to be penalties or from set pieces. He wasn't one for scoring from midfield.

[ATLIS]

3 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Bit disappointing from Obileye's goal contribution, he scored a fair few in the Championship, some from pens, but expected him to fill the void Guthrie left, and Halkett before that, and get us goals from set pieces. Fitzwater is decent with shots in and around the 6 yard box, between them we could pose a goal threat from set pieces in the last 7 games but Obileye needs to be more aggressive attacking the ball.

We've got Nouble, Obileye, and Fitzwater, with Nouble the target man from long throw ins, pretty much the successful formula we had with Gallagher being the target man for flick ons to Lithgow & Halkett. We have seen it starting to work in recent games too, so lets get back to Devlin lobbing that ball into the box more, Nouble is the key component, same as Dec was, and Obileye needs to get himself at the back post with Fitzwater ready to pounce on knock downs and loose balls.

Funny you should mention it because it's the exact thing I looked at this morning. I looked at most CBs since we were promoted and their goal contributions, Obileye is ahead of Guthrie's 2020/21 season and third in total for goals per 90 minutes. By all accounts he's performing exceptionally, only 1 of his 4 have been penalties and I'm sure Halkett took penalties in his 2018/19 season. 

It also highlights, as you were saying, the influence of Gallagher but also Ciaron Brown who had 3 assists in 9 for us that season. It's something we've moved away from now though with Penrice and Devlin making up the missing Assists per 90 that Gallagher got for us.

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, 19QOS19 said:

It was probably split between CB and midfield tbh. Regardless, the goals he scored for us tended to be penalties or from set pieces. He wasn't one for scoring from midfield.

Yeah it was set pieces i was looking at for him to contribute more goals from, esp now we've got Nouble in the team, to take on the target man from throw ins. Obileye tried to be the target man from Devlin's throw ins but wasn't very good at it, since Gallagher left we've not had anyone good enough to hold his ground against 2 defenders and win headers to knock the ball back for someone to get a header on goal, but Nouble has the physique and height to do exactly that, which also lets Obileye be the man at the back post to get onto his flick ons. So hopefully we'll see some goals from Obileye in our last 7 games. He's missed his last 2 pens, so not sure if he'll get to take another one, they were pretty weak.

40 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Funny you should mention it because it's the exact thing I looked at this morning. I looked at most CBs since we were promoted and their goal contributions, Obileye is ahead of Guthrie's 2020/21 season and third in total for goals per 90 minutes. By all accounts he's performing exceptionally, only 1 of his 4 have been penalties and I'm sure Halkett took penalties in his 2018/19 season. 

It also highlights, as you were saying, the influence of Gallagher but also Ciaron Brown who had 3 assists in 9 for us that season. It's something we've moved away from now though with Penrice and Devlin making up the missing Assists per 90 that Gallagher got for us.

Maybe feels like he should be doing better because he's missed 2 glaring chances in recent games then, scored a few pens incl cup games, but missed his last 2. I think Nouble is a great target man for long throw ins though, so hopefully Devlin will be doing more of them now, kinda gave up on them and elected to take short ones this season, but since Nouble has come in he's tried a few long ones again and it has caused opposition defenders problems.

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, Cptn Hooch said:

5 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Bit disappointing from Obileye's goal contribution, he scored a fair few in the Championship, some from pens, but expected him to fill the void Guthrie left, and Halkett before that, and get us goals from set pieces. Fitzwater is decent with shots in and around the 6 yard box, between them we could pose a goal threat from set pieces in the last 7 games but Obileye needs to be more aggressive attacking the ball.
We've got Nouble, Obileye, and Fitzwater, with Nouble the target man from long throw ins, pretty much the successful formula we had with Gallagher being the target man for flick ons to Lithgow & Halkett. We have seen it starting to work in recent games too, so lets get back to Devlin lobbing that ball into the box more, Nouble is the key component, same as Dec was, and Obileye needs to get himself at the back post with Fitzwater ready to pounce on knock downs and loose balls.

Can't say I'm disappointed with Obileye's goal return. It's a step up from the championship plus he played in midfield for Queens. He's been solely a centre back for us and has scored a few important goals for us so far this season. Both he and Fitzwater have a pretty decent shot on them for being defenders so it's about us getting them more opportunities in the box next season now that they've formed a partnership

Missed a few too that he should've buried, and his pens have gone awry, maybe that's taken away from his prev contribution for me. Just thought he should be getting more. Same with Pitts, but a lot of that was to do with where he's being played, far too deep, plus some injuries, which hadn't happened to him before.

 

Obileye scored a belter of a goal with his foot, flicking it up over the defender and keeper into the net, think it was against Aberdeen, but was also looking for him to get onto more headers from set pieces, and bag us some goals to help out with Anderson being injured. We really need others to step up and score goals if we want a top 6 spot and shot at 4th or 5th place for a European spot.

Edited March 24, 2022 by LIVIFOREVER

[Guest]

On 24/03/2022 at 10:13, LiviLion said:

Shinnie we already know doesn't really work, maybe a different story with an in-form Forrest and Nouble on the wings

It can work but as you mention, the correct blend of players need selected to make it work. Shinnie naturally drops off from the centre forward position but Forrest and Pittman can both burst past him to get on the end of crosses and through balls. Then Nouble can provide the target for long passes out of defence which Shinnie can't. I wouldn't be too surprised to see Shinnie chosen for the St Johnstone match. 

My personal preference for that match, though, is Forrest-Soto-Nouble. Because of the success at Dundee away where crosses were made by Nouble and Forrest then met by Anderson. Soto could hopefully emulate Anderson's role in that. St Johnstone also play a back 5 albeit much better than Dundee did that day.

Edited March 25, 2022 by FreedomFarter

[Cptn Hooch]

On 24/03/2022 at 10:13, LiviLion said:

Shinnie we already know doesn't really work

 

I think that's harsh on Shinnie and Martindale. It doesnt work the same way Anderson does but as FF said...

2 hours ago, FreedomFarter said:

It can work but as you mention, the correct blend of players need selected to make it work.

Shinnie's workrate is different to Anderson's. There's less buzzing around and more tight play. Shinnie is so good at pulling the ball into himself and holding it up. If that's the way we're playing then we need Pittman, Forrest, Nouble to be making the runs beyond Shinnie. This rhetoric of Shinnie being a bad option is only because the games he's played up top himself we haven't had the right mix of players making the runs beyond him. A buzzbomb centre forward like Anderson, Mullen, Robinson, Buchanan etc is the best option for the way we play but there ARE other options that could work. In saying that, I would much rather see a natural striker like Soto get the nod but Shinnie would offer us a different option.