Livingston - all the threads merged

[Durnford]

I remember the Dundee United game well (still having therapy for it).  As far as I recall we only actually needed to avoid being beaten to end up with a chance of top six (as it happened results elsewhere meant we would have needed a win but that's another story).

At the time I remember Nouble was very much out of sorts even in the warm up like he had an injury or a bug or something. He had a poor game but the real problem there was Fitzwater and Devlin playing like they were in a daze; Fitzwater in truth really was bloody awful; rarely breaking into anything other than a trot; posted missing time and again.

Devlin was also really error prone but, leastways in his defence, he really did pull his socks up for the remaining games after he started being singled out for criticism (wasn't that around the time that the story was "leaked" over him moving to Aberdeen). 

In reality we lost out because we ended up giving away two very silly goals. On paper at least we had one of our strongest attacking line-up with a 4-2-3-1 but managed just one shot on target. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/65283767

I do get where Livi4Ever is coming from; Nouble was a huge disappointment that day, more because we know how good he can be, and ,for whatever reason, he seemed to be struggling. The loss though was definitely not his fault; at a time when we were struggling to score more than one goal in a game; conceding two was bloody suicidal.

If I had to single anyone out it would definitely be Fitzwater although why he was even playing baffled me. He was extremely poor in the games leading up and we had 4 defenders on the bench plus a defensive midfielder. Pretty much the only reason he seemed to be playing was so that he could get his 100 appearances.

Devlin also deservers an honourable mention for the second goal leaving Christian Montano totally exposed on the right.

As far as this season is concerned Someone earlier described Nouble as a winger; personally I'd better describe him as attacking midfield. He can play as a forward but definitely not as a striker.

On Saturday for the first half I thought he was being played too deep as was much of the midfield). That was improved in the second half although he was starting to look really knackered by about the 80th minute.

As for the future we cant keep him beyond the end of his contract as we cannot afford to pay him what he'll likely be looking for. He came to us to put himself in the shop window and been done. I have the feeling that his contract runs out this year but do we have an extension option; a lot of the contracts recently have had that?

If he does leave at the end of the season then it would make sense to sell him now; that money plus the the cup game at Ibrox (which could net about £400k on its own) could go a long way to balancing the books.

I agree he was pretty much unplayable at the start of last season but that was also at a time when a lot of teams didn't know what to expect. At that time there was the tendency for sides to end up putting two or more defenders on him to try and stifle the threat leaving some significant gaps elsewhere. Nowadays its more a case of one defender virtually holding on to his shirt almost as soon as he steps over the halfway line. Such things rarely get punished now unless they're in the penalty area.

Marketing driver aside would he normally be ahead of the pick for a team ahead of say Steven Kelly or Christian Montano? Mackay; Bradley and Guthrie could also be in the mix. Scotty Pittman could also challenge for attacking midfield if he can keep his fitness and form up.

 

 

[Durnford]

49 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

Did it not matter away to Aberdeen at the end of February like? Or Hibs at home the week after? Or, indeed, the Dundee United game the Wednesday after that? 

Was he to blame then too? 

 A wee reminder to you of Martindale's comments following the loss to United. He said, "The top six wasn't lost today". 

Actually at the risk of being pedantic it was. You are right in as much as top six could have been secures weeks before but the Dundee United was the last chance.

In truth it should never have come down to that; one result in our favour elsewhere; a couple of penalties put way rather than missed and we'd have been comfortable.

I don't blame Nouble for missing out  but there are definitely individuals I do. I'd also blame Scottish referees; VAR and the weather, which called off games repeatedly, if I thought I could have got away with it.

 

[Menga Bus]

Whoever the ref was in the home draw with Dundee United that shat it and didn’t send freeman off when it was 1-0, I blame him.

[ATLIS]

I think the main thing to blame is the number of penalties missed to be fair  Stuck even 25% of them away and we'd probably have got into Europe.

[Durnford]

14 minutes ago, Menga Bus said:

Whoever the ref was in the home draw with Dundee United that shat it and didn’t send freeman off when it was 1-0, I blame him.

Cant blame the referee I'm afraid - it was VAR for not highlighting a clear and obvious... Oh what's the point?

[Durnford]

4 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

I think the main thing to blame is the number of penalties missed to be fair  Stuck even 25% of them away and we'd probably have got into Europe.

Its worrying that we have a far higher percentage of scoring from free kicks outside the area than direct penalties.

We must be about the only club where a fouled player would be claiming the foul was OUTSIDE the area.

[ATLIS]

3 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Its worrying that we have a far higher percentage of scoring from free kicks outside the area than direct penalties.

We must be about the only club where a fouled player would be claiming the foul was OUTSIDE the area.

At this point I've made it a running joke where I claim for the penalty and then quickly change it to a "no no noooooo"  

[EdinburghLivi]

6 hours ago, Durnford said:

Cant blame the referee I'm afraid - it was VAR for not highlighting a clear and obvious... Oh what's the point?

Referee should have given him a second yellow for the short pull on Montano and he bottled it, VAR couldn't intervene. They potentially missed a straight red with his first yellow which makes the referee's decision to not card him a second time even more ludicrous.

ETA - I forgot the disgusting challenge on Pittman from their centre back which should have also been a red. The referee and VAR were horrific that night.

Edited August 21, 2023 by EdinburghLivi

[Guest]

I felt the type of centre mids we have left us a bit defensively exposed in the 4-2-3-1 last season. Folk mentioning that Dun Utd match reminded me how Harkes so easily dribbled past Shinnie before laying off to McGrath for that crucial opening goal. Even when it was Sean Kelly playing in the 4-2-3-1, he was probably burdened with more defensive responsibilities than Martindale ideally wanted, given he seems to rate Sean Kelly's passing as his most important quality. Well having 3 centre backs now far better suits our centre mid players. Shinnie or Sean Kelly as deep lying playmaker now have that extra player behind them as insurance. Shinnie has been good so far this season and I think the formation change has helped him. The extra centre back also allows Holt to press more often, knowing if he leaves his station then the spare centre back can step forward if need be. Normally that's the middle centre back and I've seen some tentative signs of Obileye doing this in the home matches when we're trying to defend higher.

Wing back rather than full back shunts Montano up a line and gets him that bit closer to goal. He can get into crossing or goal scoring positions that bit more, as we saw on Saturday. Nouble playing as a left sided second striker is ideal. That's the position he played at Arbroath, either peeling wide or dropping back as he saw fit, while the right sided forward stayed high and central. He dropped in the inside left channel and played that lofted through ball for Penrice to almost reach on Saturday. Nouble's creative passing is rarely mentioned but its excellent. He and Montano have a great understanding too.

Edited August 22, 2023 by FreedomFarter

[LIVIFOREVER]

9 hours ago, mozam76 said:

Did it not matter away to Aberdeen at the end of February like? Or Hibs at home the week after? Or, indeed, the Dundee United game the Wednesday after that? 

Was he to blame then too? 

 A wee reminder to you of Martindale's comments following the loss to United. He said, "The top six wasn't lost today". 

It really was though, no matter what had happened before, winning that game got us top 6. Yeah there were many instances where we dropped pts in games that season, which would've also got us top 6, the officials awarding Motherwell a penalty for a ball hitting Montano's stomach, Kelly missing a penalty against St Mirren, then Hearts etc, Nouble not taking the ball into the corner and holding it for 30 seconds, when Hearts got the ball and booted up the pitch and equalised, and Nouble wasn't the only player who underperformed against Utd in the final post split game, but it annoyed me even more because he's a game changer when we stink, and is capable of winning it with a driving run hitting the byeline, yet he played it safe all game, and continually hit it from the diagonal into the box.

It's also him we're all talking about as he's leaving, maybe, but his form has dropped well below what he's capable of, and bugs the shit out of me that he's miles better than what he's giving us. If he isn't getting back to what he was for the first half of the season then i'm not that bothered about him leaving, but his form isn't going to get him any serious offers, so we're stuck with him.

Irony is if his form picks up he'd be offski, and we'd all miss him, we can't win really.

[LIVIFOREVER]

9 hours ago, Menga Bus said:

I don’t know if I’m right to be anxious but it would be very nice to get this away goal hoodoo out the way this weekend. Think hibs probably have one of the most vulnerable back lines in the league just now. While we seem to be a lot more solid just now, we have one less “attacking” player on the park, and already as the lowest scoring team last season, I do worry about us scoring goals this year.

Aye not scoring let alone winning in our final 8 away games was pretty worrying, hopefully get both those gremlins off our back against Hibs this weekend.

1 hour ago, FreedomFarter said:

I felt the type of centre mids we have left us a bit defensively exposed in the 4-2-3-1 last season. Folk mentioning that Dun Utd match reminded me how Harkes so easily dribbled past Shinnie before laying off to McGrath for that crucial opening goal. Even when it was Sean Kelly playing in the 4-2-3-1, he was probably burdened with more defensive responsibilities than Martindale ideally wanted, given he seems to rate Sean Kelly's passing as his most important quality. Well having 3 centre backs now far better suits our centre mid players. Shinnie or Sean Kelly as deep lying playmaker now have that extra player behind them as insurance, lessening their own defensive loads. Shinnie has been good so far this season and I think the formation change has helped him. The extra centre back also allows Holt to press more often, safe in the knowledge that if he leaves his station then the spare centre back can step forward if need be. Normally that's the middle centre back and I've seen some tentative signs of Obileye doing this in the home matches when we're trying to defend higher.

Wing back rather than full back shunts Montano up a line and gets him that bit closer to goal. He can get into crossing or goal scoring positions that bit more, as we saw on Saturday. Nouble playing as a left sided second striker is ideal. That's the position he played at Arbroath, either peeling wide or dropping back as he saw fit, while the right sided forward stayed high and central. He dropped in the inside left channel and played that lofted through ball for Penrice to almost reach on Saturday. Nouble's creative passing is rarely mentioned but its excellent. He and Montano have a great understanding too.

Hadn't noticed it before, but he fired 2 or 3 cracking long passes against Ayr, would still rather he was playing further up the pitch and hitting the byeline, but yep, that surprised me on Saturday.

[mozam76]

9 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

It's also him we're all talking about as he's leaving, maybe, but his form has dropped well below what he's capable of, and bugs the shit out of me that he's miles better than what he's giving us. If he isn't getting back to what he was for the first half of the season then i'm not that bothered about him leaving, but his form isn't going to get him any serious offers, so we're stuck with him.

I'm not talking about him because he's possibly leaving. I've been talking about him because I disagreed with your blaming him, solely, for us missing out on top six. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 hours ago, mozam76 said:

I'm not talking about him because he's possibly leaving. I've been talking about him because I disagreed with your blaming him, solely, for us missing out on top six. 

 Aye ok.

 

[Durnford]

Quandary - Our game at Ibrox is now apparently going to be live on Viaplay.

My problem is do I sign up for one month and presumably provide them with some justification for selecting only games involving the OF

OR

Do I find some dodgy stream somewhere (probably somebodies webcam in their living room)?

[LIVIFOREVER]

41 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Quandary - Our game at Ibrox is now apparently going to be live on Viaplay.

My problem is do I sign up for one month and presumably provide them with some justification for selecting only games involving the OF

OR

Do I find some dodgy stream somewhere (probably somebodies webcam in their living room)?

Option:

3. Go to the game at Ibrox.

4. In a pub that will be full of currant buns (pretty much the same as 3).

I'm really split between 1, 3, and 4, could be swayed towards any of them.

 

Don't suppose the stadium bar or the AS would open for Livi fans to go down and watch it at the stadium, i'd def go for that if it was an option.

 

Edited August 22, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Option:

3. Go to the game at Ibrox.

4. In a pub that will be full of currant buns (pretty much the same as 3).

I'm really split between 1, 3, and 4, could be swayed towards any of them.

 

Don't suppose the stadium bar or the AS would open for Livi fans to go down and watch it at the stadium, i'd def go for that if it was an option.

 

Haven't been back to Ibrox in 30 year; not really intending to now - although I did receive what is I believe a compliment in Goven - namely an invite for a bottle of buckie under the bridge. Not sure which bridge but I'm not sure it mattered.

Finding a pub that has Viaplay might be a challenge; as you say it would have to be a fairly heavy old firm one.

[Durnford]

Just now, Durnford said:

Haven't been back to Ibrox in 30 year; not really intending to now - although I did receive what is I believe a compliment in Goven - namely an invite for a bottle of buckie under the bridge. Not sure which bridge but I'm not sure it mattered.

Finding a pub that has Viaplay might be a challenge; as you say it would have to be a fairly heavy old firm one.

Having said that I've a feeling it might be on in the Parry Lamp

[ATLIS]

'Dodgy' streams are far too easy to find to be fair. Can't complain with sitting watching the game for free.

That being said I've saw a few people asking about the game being on down at the stadium, I wouldn't be against that. Would far rather get a drink and give some cash to the club instead of anyone else.

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 hours ago, ATLIS said:

'Dodgy' streams are far too easy to find to be fair. Can't complain with sitting watching the game for free.

That being said I've saw a few people asking about the game being on down at the stadium, I wouldn't be against that. Would far rather get a drink and give some cash to the club instead of anyone else.

Simon Preece posted on the Livi FB that he'll open the bar for the game. That's that sorted then, i'll watch it down at the stadium bar.

[ATLIS]

16 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Simon Preece posted on the Livi FB that he'll open the bar for the game. That's that sorted then, i'll watch it down at the stadium bar.

Perfect, hopefully it can become a thing for the future going forward as well instead of folk attending Rangers/Celtic away