Livingston - all the threads merged

[mozam76]

19 minutes ago, ATLIS said:

Those were the three names I had along with Rhys McCabe as well. Agreed on bigger issues if he does go though, he's created a club structure that runs smoothly year on year.

I think McCabe is perhaps just a *bit* too young. Also, I don’t want to risk a certain local journo having an aneurysm. 

[Durnford]

Any manager even considering the Hibs job really needs their head examined.

The level of expectation doesn't match the budget and timescales. Basically there's not the patience to allow a manager time to develop his team or the budget to go out and buy one.

[Cptn Hooch]

The only Scottish side I could see Martindale leaving us for is Hearts. He raves about them being the best run club in Scotland with the best stadium and infrastructure. His affinity towards rangers is well documented but I can't see him going there with even more spotlight and pressure on his past and family. I do think he'll be with us for a while yet though

[Thenorthernlight]

3 minutes ago, Cptn Hooch said:

The only Scottish side I could see Martindale leaving us for is Hearts. He raves about them being the best run club in Scotland with the best stadium and infrastructure. His affinity towards rangers is well documented but I can't see him going there with even more spotlight and pressure on his past and family. I do think he'll be with us for a while yet though

How could Martindale possibly know which club is run the best in Scottish football? 

 

 

[mozam76]

35 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Any manager even considering the Hibs job really needs their head examined.

The level of expectation doesn't match the budget and timescales. Basically there's not the patience to allow a manager time to develop his team or the budget to go out and buy one.

The same could be said for most of the big clubs though. McInnes, hounded from Aberdeen despite second places and a cup win. Ross, the same at Hibs, despite a third place and two finals in a season. Even Davidson was chased from St Johnstone having won two trophies in the same season. 

I fully appreciate that in the case of McInnes things had probably gone stale having been there for a while. It does appear though that relative success at other clubs is rewarded by a P45. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

Think Celtic are the best run club in Scotland, about the only one making a decent profit every season, and didn't need the Govt loan.

Hearts get a lot of investment put in for their budgets every season though, Martindale has mentioned that a few times, plus selling out their ground to their own fans, affording them to limiting a small section to away fans. He'd def jump at an offer from them if it ever came.

Don't think Hibs is even looking at him though, which is a relief for us, he's just invaluable to our continued success, how he manages to bring in good players every season on what we can afford to pay in wages is miraculous, scary to think what calibre he could get for a team with a decent sized budget.

[Durnford]

Just now, LIVIFOREVER said:

Think Celtic are the best run club in Scotland, about the only one making a decent profit every season, and didn't need the Govt loan.

Hearts get a lot of investment put in for their budgets every season though, Martindale has mentioned that a few times, plus selling out their ground to their own fans, affording them to limiting a small section to away fans. He'd def jump at an offer from them if it ever came.

Don't think Hibs is even looking at him though, which is a relief for us, he's just invaluable to our continued success, how he manages to bring in good players every season on what we can afford to pay in wages is miraculous, scary to think what calibre he could get for a team with a decent sized budget.

Surely that depends on your point of reference. If your looking at training facilities; youth system; recruitment etc. then he may be correct. I don't really know and am even less bothered.

Financial prudence and stability is another matter but saying Celtic are the best run club because they make the most profit is a bit of a stretch. One could almost argue that with the financial muscle and size of home support that level of profit is expected and possibly less than expected. Remember also this is pretty much the same club management that thought Neil Lennon as team manager was a good idea.

[Durnford]

13 minutes ago, mozam76 said:

The same could be said for most of the big clubs though. McInnes, hounded from Aberdeen despite second places and a cup win. Ross, the same at Hibs, despite a third place and two finals in a season. Even Davidson was chased from St Johnstone having won two trophies in the same season. 

I fully appreciate that in the case of McInnes things had probably gone stale having been there for a while. It does appear though that relative success at other clubs is rewarded by a P45. 

I agree but I recall a conversation with a dons supporter on hear a while back who stated that the general view was anything less than third position was a failure of a season. That also seems to be the same for Hearts and Hibs and actually I think there was an expectation last season (however outlandish it may seem now) that Dundee united would also be in the mix. They cant all end up in third meaning there's a large proportion of supporters who will be perpetually disappointed.

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Surely that depends on your point of reference. If your looking at training facilities; youth system; recruitment etc. then he may be correct. I don't really know and am even less bothered.

Financial prudence and stability is another matter but saying Celtic are the best run club because they make the most profit is a bit of a stretch. One could almost argue that with the financial muscle and size of home support that level of profit is expected and possibly less than expected. Remember also this is pretty much the same club management that thought Neil Lennon as team manager was a good idea.

Then again, look at the other erse cheek to see how that doesn't guarantee being financially well run.

[Durnford]

46 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Then again, look at the other erse cheek to see how that doesn't guarantee being financially well run.

I think you're mixing up performance on the field with being well run from a management side of things.

[mozam76]

53 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Surely that depends on your point of reference. If your looking at training facilities; youth system; recruitment etc. then he may be correct. I don't really know and am even less bothered.

Financial prudence and stability is another matter but saying Celtic are the best run club because they make the most profit is a bit of a stretch. One could almost argue that with the financial muscle and size of home support that level of profit is expected and possibly less than expected. Remember also this is pretty much the same club management that thought Neil Lennon as team manager was a good idea.

48 minutes ago, Durnford said:

They cant all end up in third meaning there's a large proportion of supporters who will be perpetually disappointed.

This is so true, and it’s something that rips my knitting something awful. It’s the same in England. Have a listen to how many clubs, or their fans, want “top four”. Or how many say they should be winning a cup. It’s an absolute nonsense. Brighton, Villa, Spurs, Chelsea, I’ve read supporters of all of them saying they should be aiming for silverware this season. Then you add in the top four from last season, one of whom is the Petrochemical Death Star that is Man City. 

[LIVIFOREVER]

3 minutes ago, Durnford said:

I think you're mixing up performance on the field with being well run from a management side of things.

You said with the financial muscle and size of support, financial profit would be expected, Oldco Rangers showed it isn't always the case, don't think Newco are doing that great on that score either right enough. Celtic have brought in good players and made money from selling them, that is good business, on and off the field.

[RandomGuy.]

1 hour ago, mozam76 said:

Even Davidson was chased from St Johnstone having won two trophies in the same season. 

It had more to do with his "squad building" leading to a 40 man squad and a ~£2m loss than any unrealistic expectation. We changed our entire board at the same time due to the mess.

[Durnford]

3 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

You said with the financial muscle and size of support, financial profit would be expected, Oldco Rangers showed it isn't always the case, don't think Newco are doing that great on that score either right enough. Celtic have brought in good players and made money from selling them, that is good business, on and off the field.

TBH the scenario of Celtic bringing in good players over the last couple of seasons has primarily been down to Postecoglou's contacts; a situation they cant rely on going forward. I suspect under Rodgers they're going to have to shell out plenty in order to maintain their position.

If looking at financial return it would be more apt to look a commercial return from all revenue streams in comparison to the club's financial net worth. 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

7 minutes ago, Durnford said:

TBH the scenario of Celtic bringing in good players over the last couple of seasons has primarily been down to Postecoglou's contacts; a situation they cant rely on going forward. I suspect under Rodgers they're going to have to shell out plenty in order to maintain their position.

If looking at financial return it would be more apt to look a commercial return from all revenue streams in comparison to the club's financial net worth. 

 

I'm not that informed (or interested enough to have kept up to date with their comings and going), can remember under McCann, who started their upturn in fortune, they did incredibly well signing players on the cheap and selling them for millions. While Rangers were throwing silly money about signing players.

 

Anyways, Hearts have equally been a tad reckless on that front, and not that long up from another spell in the Championship, and their managerial team just now isn't of any great pedigree, who knows what will happen there. They have a very decent sized support right enough, quite enviable for one of the clubs outside the big two, and good training facilities, and are well backed financially, still not convinced they're better run than Celtic though.

[Durnford]

1 minute ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

I'm not that informed (or interested enough to have kept up to date with their comings and going), can remember under McCann, who started their upturn in fortune, they did incredibly well signing players on the cheap and selling them for millions. While Rangers were throwing silly money about signing players.

 

Anyways, Hearts have equally been a tad reckless on that front, and not that long up from another spell in the Championship, and their managerial team just now isn't of any great pedigree, who knows what will happen there. They have a very decent sized support right enough, quite enviable for one of the clubs outside the big two, and good training facilities, and are well backed financially, still not convinced they're better run than Celtic though.

Again it really depends on the the point of reference from Martindale's comments.

Across the premiership there are a number of possible contenders depending on your point of view. Killie might be one despite having been relegated and fought their way back. Missing super rich backers they're still able to shell out and strengthen their squad despite a fairly modest home crowd by premiership standards.

St Mirren and Motherwell quite often fly under the radar; they've had their dodgy moments but seem basically quite sound and well run commercially.

Aberdeen are a pretty solid financial sounding; it would be interesting to see if the much vaulted stadium redevelopment ever actually takes place. Mind you they do seem to have the knack of selling some quite mediocre player for somewhat inflated prices. 

 

[LIVIFOREVER]

7 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Again it really depends on the the point of reference from Martindale's comments.

Across the premiership there are a number of possible contenders depending on your point of view. Killie might be one despite having been relegated and fought their way back. Missing super rich backers they're still able to shell out and strengthen their squad despite a fairly modest home crowd by premiership standards.

St Mirren and Motherwell quite often fly under the radar; they've had their dodgy moments but seem basically quite sound and well run commercially.

Aberdeen are a pretty solid financial sounding; it would be interesting to see if the much vaulted stadium redevelopment ever actually takes place. Mind you they do seem to have the knack of selling some quite mediocre player for somewhat inflated prices. 

 

You'll come up with anyone except Celtic then. I share your dislike for them but come on tae feck D.

 

Also, bearing in mind who Martindale supported/supports, he's never going to say Celtic are the best run club in the Country, and he really couldn't say Sevco were, and be taken seriously.

Edited August 28, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Durnford]

5 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

You'll come up with anyone except Celtic then. I share your dislike for them but come on tae feck D.

Actually I missed out both of the old firm and Edinburgh clubs. 

For those clubs commonly referred to as selling clubs its a difficult one as selling a player could conceivably double or treble the cash value of that club often despite getting a player for nothing or very little. 

the big spenders however may spend £20 million on a player and sell them for £25 million. Financially that's a success but financially the £5million profit might not even match one twentieth of the perceived valuation of that club.

[LIVIFOREVER]

2 minutes ago, Durnford said:

Actually I missed out both of the old firm and Edinburgh clubs. 

For those clubs commonly referred to as selling clubs its a difficult one as selling a player could conceivably double or treble the cash value of that club often despite getting a player for nothing or very little. 

the big spenders however may spend £20 million on a player and sell them for £25 million. Financially that's a success but financially the £5million profit might not even match one twentieth of the perceived valuation of that club.

Don't think Celtic have ever spent that kind of dosh on a player, but they've sold them for plenty. Jota went for 25 million, sure they made 25 million from Tierney going to Arsenal too, you're not going to get me looking up their players transfers to prove my point though, ya bugger.

[Durnford]

1 minute ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Don't think Celtic have ever spent that kind of dosh on a player, but they've sold them for plenty. Jota went for 25 million, sure they made 25 million from Tierney going to Arsenal too, you're not going to get me looking up their players transfers to prove my point though, ya bugger.

Nah I'm not bothered either - but am happy to talk about anything other than Nouble's transfer.... which I've just done.... oh sh1te!