Livingston - all the threads merged

[Cptn Hooch]

4 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye Davidson was an absolute steal by St Johnstone, esp with MacKay being thrown in too, just to get rid of him, because he spoke out against Massone. 

There was one young player we didn't get to see that went to an English club for 200K or more, can't remember his name though. Sure he came back and played in the lower league a few years later. Dunno how we managed to pull that one off.

Joe McKee went to Burnley back in 2009 for a 5 figure fee and a friendly between the 2 clubs. Owen Coyle was the manager at the time. McKee now playing for Peterhead, I believe

[ATLIS]

5 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Aye Davidson was an absolute steal by St Johnstone, esp with MacKay being thrown in too, just to get rid of him, because he spoke out against Massone. 

There was one young player we didn't get to see that went to an English club for 200K or more, can't remember his name though. Sure he came back and played in the lower league a few years later. Dunno how we managed to pull that one off.

Coll Donaldson to QPR and Scougall to Sheffield Utd probably the last bigger transfers for young boys

Edited September 2, 2023 by ATLIS

[Menga Bus]

Not sure how others are feeling, but personally feeling a bit done with the Guthrie love affair. Don’t get me wrong, he’s better than he was last season but he’s really not doing anything special, and not enough to warrant starting over Bruce.  Actually feel as though Bruce is almost better than Guthrie in every department including his hold up play, maybe not defensive headers but if that’s what’s dictating him starting over bruce then dearie me. There is the argument that Guthrie is wearing them down for Bruce to come on but Bruce is generally needed as the impact sub late on because we haven’t created any real chances when he’s off the park. Also feel like Stephen Kelly starting would increase our creativity a lot. 

[ATLIS]

I get what you're saying with Guthrie, IMO we should've signed another ST in the window. Fletcher still available on a free with clubs avoiding him? Guthrie just doesn't do it for me. A lot of people have overcorrected and got themselves thinking he's great, he's better than he was but he's still nothing special. 

I think Pittman is keeping Kelly out the team atm and I'm fine with that. Pitts has been back on form and there's only one spot to be claimed in there between them

[Troy.1995]

Pitts was magnificent today.Was shouting at Davie to get Bruce on and paid dividends. Need to see the offside goal again.Close.But once again VAR has shafted once again. Buddies fans I spoke after the game said they got away with one today.Theyl take it and well done them for going right to the end and got an unlikely point in the last minute. Absolutely gutting for us.Our guys have to realise we've got to keep going,albeit the 96th minute.Definently points dropped, even at this early part of the season, which could be crucial come the end .Gutted.

[Livi La Vida Loca]

16 minutes ago, Menga Bus said:

Not sure how others are feeling, but personally feeling a bit done with the Guthrie love affair. Don’t get me wrong, he’s better than he was last season but he’s really not doing anything special, and not enough to warrant starting over Bruce.  Actually feel as though Bruce is almost better than Guthrie in every department including his hold up play, maybe not defensive headers but if that’s what’s dictating him starting over bruce then dearie me. There is the argument that Guthrie is wearing them down for Bruce to come on but Bruce is generally needed as the impact sub late on because we haven’t created any real chances when he’s off the park. Also feel like Stephen Kelly starting would increase our creativity a lot. 

I never thought I'd be defending Guthrie but it's clear what he's been asked to do by Martindale and I think he's doing an alright job. Today when he did win headers and flick it on almost every time there was nobody going after it or far enough forward to offer support. 

Nouble for me today should've been taken off earlier as he looked tired or simply uninterested towards the end. 

As for Kelly the current system/formation is incredibly well suited to Pittman and he doesn't warrant being benched yet. 

Now that the transfer window is shut and Nouble isn't really in the shop window so much I'd like to see us start both Kelly and Pittman together and see how it works out.

[Guest]

Martindale in his review effectively says he wanted to bring on Boyes for Nouble again, the same as last week, except Boyes was in Inverness. Parkes was named on the bench but unavailable to play. If it'd been Boyes for Nouble rather than Mackay for Nouble, we'd have had an extra marker for that final set piece phase and probably have prevented the goal. Small details can make a huge difference.

Brandon has been excellent defensively this season and today he showed his attacking potential for the first time, especially second half, probably because he had Nouble to work with. BBC gave him MotM.

De Lucas is improving with each game and has an infectious determination to him. Obileye and Devlin were also very good today.

Penrice again didn't put a foot wrong. Near perfect cross for Pittman first half. 

I don't think Sangare looks as comfortable in centre mid as he does at attacking mid. Martindale maybe signed Lawal because he agrees. I bothered watching a couple of Nigeria U-20 world cup matches from earlier this summer and, for me, Lawal might be best in the Shinnie role. We'll see.

[EdinburghLivi]

I assume Nottingham and Welch-Hayes must be gubbed at the moment, haven't heard much about them. Also had no idea Parkes was injured until I saw him in the sitting in the stand. 

On Guthrie, I thought he was pretty effective up against their back 3 - winning headers and genuinely causing a nuisance. When the ball is at his feet and he has time, he looks pretty limited but I can see why Martindale selected him. Anderson was a class above when he came on though.

Edit: Nottingham's injury mentioned in the interview as well. Would be good if the journalists did their job and asked about players missing from the squad during the week. They would bother for the bigger teams but make no effort for us.

Edited September 2, 2023 by EdinburghLivi

[ATLIS]

4 hours ago, Troy.1995 said:

Pitts was magnificent today.Was shouting at Davie to get Bruce on and paid dividends. Need to see the offside goal again.Close.But once again VAR has shafted once again. Buddies fans I spoke after the game said they got away with one today.Theyl take it and well done them for going right to the end and got an unlikely point in the last minute. Absolutely gutting for us.Our guys have to realise we've got to keep going,albeit the 96th minute.Definently points dropped, even at this early part of the season, which could be crucial come the end .Gutted.

VAR giving the correct decision isn't a shafting, it's just making the decision correct, which it did.

[LIVIFOREVER]

4 hours ago, Livi La Vida Loca said:

I never thought I'd be defending Guthrie but it's clear what he's been asked to do by Martindale and I think he's doing an alright job. Today when he did win headers and flick it on almost every time there was nobody going after it or far enough forward to offer support. 

Nouble for me today should've been taken off earlier as he looked tired or simply uninterested towards the end. 

As for Kelly the current system/formation is incredibly well suited to Pittman and he doesn't warrant being benched yet. 

Now that the transfer window is shut and Nouble isn't really in the shop window so much I'd like to see us start both Kelly and Pittman together and see how it works out.

Agree with a lot of this, but i'd like to see Bruce playing with Guthrie in a front 2, instead of Guthrie going off for Bruce. Like you say, Guthrie wins most of those high balls hit up to him, but hasn't anyone running off him to get onto his flick ons, that's where Bruce would thrive, feeding off his headers.

Another option is having Kelly and Bruce starting, and playing it on the deck more, because Bruce just isn't going to win high balls against big CB's. Nouble-Anderson- Kelly in a front 3, or a 2 in behind Anderson up front. Hopefully see that in games against St Johnstone, Dundee, Killie and County. 

Edited September 2, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[djchapsticks]

4 hours ago, Troy.1995 said:

.But once again VAR has shafted once again. Buddies fans I spoke after the game said they got away with one today.

We did get away with one but not in terms of VAR. It was offside and Martindale knew it was likely was at the time. 

We got away with one, not only because of the late equaliser but also the goal that got chalked off as Dunne stepped out when he shouldn't have and when it's margins like today, you're just as likely to get caught out and play your man on. He has more than enough pace to keep up with Anderson, so I dunno wht he was thinking.

[EdinburghLivi]

Goalkeepers
1.  Shamal George - 2026
23. Michael McGovern - Loan - 2024
32.  Jack Hamilton - 2024

Defenders
2.  Shaun Donnellan - 2026
3.  Cristian Montano - 2024
5.  Mikey Devlin - 2024 (2 year extension option)
6.  Ayo Obileye - 2024
12.  Jamie Brandon - 2025
14.  Miles Welch-Hayes - 2026
21.  Michael Nottingham - 2024
29.  James Penrice - 2024

Midfielders
8.  Scott Pittman - 2026
10.  Stephen Kelly - 2025
18.  Jason Holt - 2025
20.  Mo Sangare - 2025 (1 year extension option)
22.  Andrew Shinnie - 2024
24.  Sean Kelly - 2024
40.  Samson Lawal - 2026

Forwards
9.  Bruce Anderson - 2024
11.  Daniel Mackay - Loan - 2024
16.  Steven Bradley - 2025
19.  Joel Nouble - 2024
28.  Kurtis Guthrie - 2024 (1 year extension option)
33.  Tete Yengi - 2026

In
Mikey Devlin - Hibernian
Samson Lawal - Pro Success
Daniel Lloyd - Rochdale
Daniel Mackay - Hibernian (Loan)
Michael McGovern - Hearts (Loan)
Michael Nottingham - Accrington Stanley
Mo Sangare - Accrington Stanley
Miles Welch-Hayes - Harrogate Town
Tete Yengi - Ipswich Town

Out
Dylan Bahamboula
Scott Bitsindou
Morgan Boyes - Inverness C.T. (Loan) - Contract Expiry 2024
Luiyi De Lucas - AEL Limassol
Nicky Devlin - Aberdeen
Jack Fitzwater - Exeter City
Esmaël Gonçalves
Jack Hamilton - Raith Rovers
Jaze Kabia - Cork City
Jackson Longridge - Hamilton Academical
Daniel Lloyd - Southport
Stephane Omeonga - Bnei Sakhnin
Tom Parkes - Hartlepool
Brian Schwake - CD Castellon

 

Hopefully can start making efforts to tie down the likes of Anderson now that the window has closed.

Edited February 18 by EdinburghLivi

[ATLIS]

Biggest worries in there are Montano, Penrice, Anderson, Nouble. Nouble will obviously be away though.

Safe to say, save for injury Devlin will be here.

[LiviLion]

17 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Agree with a lot of this, but i'd like to see Bruce playing with Guthrie in a front 2, instead of Guthrie going off for Bruce. Like you say, Guthrie wins most of those high balls hit up to him, but hasn't anyone running off him to get onto his flick ons, that's where Bruce would thrive, feeding off his headers.

Think this was tried in the pre-season and/or League Cup games, with Anderson effectively in the Kelly/Pittman position and trying to get onto the lay offs. 

[Guest]

St Mirren are very dangerous in transition, robbing the ball from you in midfield and instantly countering We see them doing this with their chance at 1:06 in the above video. Due to that, Martindale didn't have us pressing first half when St Mirren were still full of energy. Instead we sat in our shape and let them have possession. When one of the wide centre backs had the ball for St Mirren, either Nouble or Pittman would block the diagonal passing lane into the centre mid while the other would be ready to pounce on that centre mid if the pass did get through. At 1:21 you see this bearing fruit as Taylor has no passing option into midfield so tries to switch over to his fellow wide centre back and makes a hash of it. The defensive shift Nouble and Pittman have been putting in as the the attacking midfield duo has been hugely important for us. Against the back threes of Aberdeen and St Mirren they've done that central screening job, preventing the opposition defenders from passing into central midfield. Then against the back four of Hibs, they both did a very different defensive job, instead going wide out of possession and tracking the Hibs full backs. Also in the above video, Pittman's challenge on Boyd-Munce at 1:57 stops what would otherwise have been a goalscoring chance.

 

[LiviLion]

On 03/09/2023 at 16:40, EdinburghLivi said:

Goalkeepers
1.  Shamal George - 2026
32.  Jack Hamilton - 2024

Defenders
3.  Cristian Montano - 2024
4.  Tom Parkes - 2024
5.  Mikey Devlin - 2024 (2 year extension option)
6.  Ayo Obileye - 2024
12.  Jamie Brandon - 2025
14.  Miles Welch-Hayes - 2026
21.  Michael Nottingham - 2024
23.  Luiyi de Lucas - 2024 (1 year extension option)
29.  James Penrice - 2024

Midfielders
8.  Scott Pittman - 2026
10.  Stephen Kelly - 2025
18.  Jason Holt - 2025
20.  Mo Sangare - 2025 (1 year extension option)
22.  Andrew Shinnie - 2024
24.  Sean Kelly - 2024
38.  Scott Bitsindou - 2024 (1 year extension option)
40.  Samson Lawal - 2026

Forwards
7.  Dylan Bahamboula - 2024 (1 year extension option)
9.  Bruce Anderson - 2024
11.  Daniel Mackay - Loan - 2024
16.  Steven Bradley - 2025
17.  Aphelele Teto - 2027
19.  Joel Nouble - 2024
25.  Daniel Lloyd - Jan 2024
28.  Kurtis Guthrie - 2024 (1 year extension option)

In
Mikey Devlin - Hibernian
Samson Lawal - Pro Success
Daniel Lloyd - Rochdale
Daniel Mackay - Hibernian (Loan)
Michael Nottingham - Accrington Stanley
Mo Sangare - Accrington Stanley
Aphelele Teto - TS Galaxy
Miles Welch-Hayes - Harrogate Town

Out
Morgan Boyes - Inverness C.T. (Loan) - Contract Expiry 2024
Nicky Devlin - Aberdeen
Jack Fitzwater
Esmaël Gonçalves
Jack Hamilton - Raith Rovers
Jaze Kabia - Cork City
Jackson Longridge - Hamilton Academical
Stephane Omeonga - Bnei Sakhnin
Brian Schwake - CD Castellon

 

Hopefully can start making efforts to tie down the likes of Anderson now that the window has closed.

Happy enough with how we've ended the window, we've got enough depth to cover for some injuries anyway - the only question is what kind of quality the like of Welch-Hayes and Nottingham can actually bring, as that's probably our most 'understaffed' positions (other than up front - but Nouble becomes the obvious pick if Anderson and Guthrie are out, and can see MacKay filling in there too if it gets that bad)

[LIVIFOREVER]

On 03/09/2023 at 17:39, LiviLion said:

Think this was tried in the pre-season and/or League Cup games, with Anderson effectively in the Kelly/Pittman position and trying to get onto the lay offs. 

I can remember Pittman trying to get up more to link with Guthrie but can't remember Anderson doing it, Pitts and Guthrie were both right up the pitch together against Hibs too, but against St Mirren we kept seeing Guthrie getting the ball knocked towards him, and winning headers, and the ball was just going to an open space for a St Mirren player to pick up, because no Livi player was up there feeding off him. Seems an obv waste not having either Pittman, Anderson, or even MacKay going beyond Guthrie to get onto his flick ons.

Otherwise we need to keep the ball down (to at least chest level) so Guthrie has a chance of bringing it down/into himself, giving him the chance to hold it a few seconds till support arrives for a pass. Maybe we'll see someone linking up with him better when we're playing sides more likely to finish in the bottom 6.

[LIVIFOREVER]

In those covering positions it's basically Holt in that position, Bitsindou isn't good enough and hasn't been seen anywhere near the squad, and Sean Kelly has also disappeared. Kelly was slow getting caught on the ball all the time in a pre season or cup game, and got subbed off early (might've been injured) and i don't think we've seen him in the squad again.

Surprised Welch-Hayes wasn't loaned out, because from what i've read he's one for the future, needing a lot of work on his development, and isn't good enough for Premiership level games. Which also leaves us with no natural RB/RWB cover, and all the LB's will have to fill in for cover there. Loyd's meant to be versatile right enough. Looking forward to seeing him play, from comments of fans from his former teams, he seems very Pittman esque in his work ethic, never stops running and gives his all every game.

[The Wrong Car]

Did Sean Kelly not get injured in the League Cup games? Not sure what game, however pretty sure he got subbed off early

Shinnie, Kelly, Pittman and Sangare, plus Lawal and Penrice can all cover the 2 CM positions. Penrice at RWB is an option, however it does mean we're relying on Lloyd while Montano is injuried. Brandon has looked decent this season as well, and gives the team much better balance on that side. Surprised Bahamboula and Bitsindou are still here, given they've hardly made the squad all summer. Given the length of contract Welch - Hayes will probably train with us, then loaned in January, with a view to next season

 

[Guest]

37 minutes ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

against St Mirren we kept seeing Guthrie getting the ball knocked towards him, and winning headers, and the ball was just going to an open space for a St Mirren player to pick up, because no Livi player was up there feeding off him. Seems an obv waste not having either Pittman, Anderson, or even MacKay going beyond Guthrie to get onto his flick ons.

St Mirren start matches like a house on fire. They look to blitz you straight away and take an early lead. Last season's 3-0 defeat at St Mirren Park being a case in point. It's a feature of Stephen Robinson teams going right back to the 18/19 season when his Motherwell had demolished us 3-0 by half time.

Martindale has learned so this time kept men behind the ball first half. That allowed us to bend but not break, to absorb the St Mirren first half pressure he knew would come. If we'd had our attacking mids piling past Guthrie every time then we'd have lost that defensive shape I detailed in my last comment. 

That the centre forward might be isolated first half was why Guthrie was selected. Let him take the beating from Gogic and do the donkey work. Then Anderson comes on later when St Mirren are no longer playing with the same energy and we're the team in the ascendancy.

We'll see Anderson starting against weaker teams at home who sit in against us.