Livingston - all the threads merged

[Dav nan Gael]

1 hour ago, Rugbypark said:

Why would anyone throw money at Livi? If they won the league, they would still attract about a thousand home fans. There is no potential whatsoever. I really hope a proper club takes your place soon. 

All that's wrong with the scottish football attitude in one sweep............

We've had 10,000 seater limits,6000 seater limits.

Now it's a ban on any synthetic surface in the PremVarship. 

We also have restricted promotions between tier 6 up into tier 5 Lowland League and Highland League due to the restrictive nature of the SFA club licensing scheme.

Plus the stupendously stupid that is Club 42 get to have a playoff, to hopefully stave off a relegation to the LL or HL !!!

The outright 19th century snobbery and entitlement that is rife thru the scottish game and particularly the PremVarship is sickening. 

[Livi]

2 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

Why would anyone throw money at Livi? If they won the league, they would still attract about a thousand home fans. There is no potential whatsoever. I really hope a proper club takes your place soon. 

Not that long ago there was 2 men and a dug watching Kilmarnock given there performances and the challenges off field.

Do us all a favour and bolt.

[Rugbypark]

8 minutes ago, Livi said:

Not that long ago there was 2 men and a dug watching Kilmarnock given there performances and the challenges off field.

Do us all a favour and bolt.

I think you’re talking 40 years ago. Anyway, we proved again what a traditional team can do today! 

[BukyOHare]

2 hours ago, Dav nan Gael said:

All that's wrong with the scottish football attitude in one sweep............

We've had 10,000 seater limits,6000 seater limits.

Now it's a ban on any synthetic surface in the PremVarship. 

We also have restricted promotions between tier 6 up into tier 5 Lowland League and Highland League due to the restrictive nature of the SFA club licensing scheme.

Plus the stupendously stupid that is Club 42 get to have a playoff, to hopefully stave off a relegation to the LL or HL !!!

The outright 19th century snobbery and entitlement that is rife thru the scottish game and particularly the PremVarship is sickening. 

While agreeing wholeheartedly with you on all of this, let's not forget how inherently unfair the Premiership playoff structure is in favour of the Premiership teams. Something that could yet save your team in just a few months. People in glass houses maybe?

Hopefully your board will be in a position to lobby for a fairer change.

Perhaps not.

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by BukyOHare

[Dav nan Gael]

1 minute ago, BukyOHare said:

While agreeing wholeheartedly with you on all of this, let's not forget how inherently unfair the Championship playoff structure is in favour of the Premiership teams. Something that could yet save your team in just a few months. People in glass houses maybe?

Hopefully your board will be in a position to lobby for a fairer change.

Perhaps not.

 

Totally in agreement with your argument in the Championship/Premiership play off,another stain on scottish football and one I forgot to mention. 

Perfectly happy to drop down to the Championship to avoid the shitfest that is VAR,more our level,better away days etc etc. 

[Livi]

1 hour ago, Dav nan Gael said:

Totally in agreement with your argument in the Championship/Premiership play off,another stain on scottish football and one I forgot to mention. 

Perfectly happy to drop down to the Championship to avoid the shitfest that is VAR,more our level,better away days etc etc. 

we'll be lucky to stay in the Championship with the on field tactics and the off field shenanigans at Livi FC right now.
 

We need a FULL change of the guard both on and off the field before its to late. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Livi

[Freedom Farter]

The club Youtube highlights (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttikbF7Wjm0&ab_channel=LivingstonFootballClub) always show a lot more of the Livi play than Sportscene do. I was reminded just now of Devlin's pass into Guthrie just prior to the Guthrie penalty claim. Devlin's distribution was very good all game yesterday. He also cut out and controlled some high through passes by Hibs rather than just header or boot them clear, gaining us possession. Martindale has spoken in the past about liking to have a left footer at left centre back but Devlin showed last night that's not needed. Penrice wasn't any worse off for having a right footer behind him. Devlin fucked up for the Hibs goal when he broke the offside line but we know he's a good player. Our defence is fixed now and looks solid. Time for Martindale to focus on midfield and attack.

 

[the philosopher]

5 hours ago, Dav nan Gael said:

All that's wrong with the scottish football attitude in one sweep............

We've had 10,000 seater limits,6000 seater limits.

Now it's a ban on any synthetic surface in the PremVarship. 

We also have restricted promotions between tier 6 up into tier 5 Lowland League and Highland League due to the restrictive nature of the SFA club licensing scheme.

Plus the stupendously stupid that is Club 42 get to have a playoff, to hopefully stave off a relegation to the LL or HL !!!

The outright 19th century snobbery and entitlement that is rife thru the scottish game and particularly the PremVarship is sickening. 

Interesting to look at the Lowland league table at present : exclude the bottom team Edinburgh Uni then the next 5 are recently relegated teams from League2,  13th. ALBION Rovers ( ok 3or 4 games in hand) relegated 2022/23

                             14th. Cowdenbeath relegated 2021/22

                              15th.Berwick Rangers relegated 2018/19

                               16th.East Stirlingshire relegated 2015/16

                               17th.Gretna Born out of the ashes of old Gretna in 2008

                               18th.Edinburgh Uni.

Not forgetting Brechin relegated 20/21 to the Highland League

[RandomGuy.]

5 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

I think you’re talking 40 years ago. Anyway, we proved again what a traditional team can do today! 

Kilmarnock average attendance in 2015/16 - 3967

Livingston average attendance in 2023/24 - 4251

Kilmarnock fans memory is remarkably short the way they act any time they have a remotely decent team. Before Clarke arrived you were circling the drain and would very much Dunfermline-esque by now (perennial lower league side whos only boast is how many people watch them be shite).

[hoobahabba]

6 hours ago, Rugbypark said:

I think you’re talking 40 years ago. Anyway, we proved again what a traditional team can do today! 

You can crow all you want about us not being a "proper club" but, if we're going to play that game, do you not think your set up at Rugby Park is one of the more embarrassing ones in the Premiership? I mean who in their right mind thought an 18,000 seater stadium would be appropriate for Killie? At least we have the SPFL to blame for our oversized stadium. And, even after spending money to swap capacity for office space, your crowd today was noticeably sparse. I don't know why you insist on restricting Celtic to that one stand when you have so many empty seats. Is that what a proper club does? Or one that would rather pretend to be one of the big boys than act in their own best interests?

Congratulations on the result. I, for one, enjoy seeing teams punch above their weight. Especially when it's against one of the Old Firm. But, f**k me, have a think about your own club's inadequacies before you make such snobbish remarks.

[ATLIS]

 

On the upside this could see him out for a bit

[LiviLion]

7 hours ago, ATLIS said:

 

On the upside this could see him out for a bit

Thought Guthrie and Penrice done well giving Whittaker a torrid time down the left side, for the first half anyway. His diving was utterly embarrassing on Saturday though, some going to be the worst culprit for it when Martin Boyle's on the pitch. Absolutely wild that he's actually moaning about the referee to that extent although admittedly I haven't read the article; I thought the ref had a good enough game.

Hopefully Nouble is fine for the Killie game, especially if Guthrie is talking himself into a ban/spot on the bench.

[LIVIFOREVER]

Don't think Guthrie is the problem, leaving him out and putting Anderson in wont make the slightest difference if Anderson is getting high balls hoofed up towards him. Guthrie offers a very good target man, a Lee Miller type position, but needs runners picking up his flick ons and lay offs. He's also good at getting his body between defenders and the ball to be fouled, something Nouble would do well to learn from.

If we're dropping Guthrie we'd need to start keeping it on the deck, or at least playing percentage balls down the channels for Anderson to run at, and use the WB's getting down the line to get balls into the box. We were putting plenty balls into the box on Saturday, but needed Anderson to be on the pitch from the start to give us a chance scoring when we were on top. Pitts did his best but he's a few years past his prime Pittman days, when him, Keags and Mullin scored goals for us in the play offs with Miller leading the line.

Edited December 11, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[LiviLion]

1 hour ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Don't think Guthrie is the problem, leaving him out and putting Anderson in wont make the slightest difference if Anderson is getting high balls hoofed up towards him. Guthrie offers a very good target man, a Lee Miller type position, but needs runners picking up his flick ons and lay offs. He's also good at getting his body between defenders and the ball to be fouled, something Nouble would do well to learn from.

If we're dropping Guthrie we'd need to start keeping it on the deck, or at least playing percentage balls down the channels for Anderson to run at, and use the WB's getting down the line to get balls into the box. We were putting plenty balls into the box on Saturday, but needed Anderson to be on the pitch from the start to give us a chance scoring when we were on top. Pitts did his best but he's a few years past his prime Pittman days, when him, Keags and Mullin scored goals for us in the play offs with Miller leading the line.

Nouble or Guthrie alongside Anderson is probably our best bet atm. The alternative would be a 4-2-3-1 with Nouble wide and Anderson up front but I think Martindale is sticking with his 3-4-2-1 (and the other variations he's played), meaning we're only ever getting one of those players in a sensible position at any given time.

George

de Lucas  -  Obileye  -  Devlin

Montano  -  Holt  -  St. Kelly  -  Pittman  -  Penrice

Anderson  -  Nouble

If everyone was fit that would probably be my preferred 3-5-2. You can swap about Montano and Penrice, as well as having Shinnie/Sangare/Sean Kelly to use in midfield instead of Pittman depending on who we're playing, or Nottingham instead of de Lucas depending on Luiyi's form. Guthrie sent packing and free flowing passing football would be the dream but probably unrealistic, Martindale wants to shitfest it this season in attempt to replicate how we were when we came up. It's not going well.

[LIVIFOREVER]

The problem with having Nouble playing up front with Anderson, is Nouble steps aside to let Anderson jump for high balls, and being realistic, he just isn't going to win many against brick shithouse CB's, and even if he does, he's the player we want free to be running onto flick ons. Alternatively we just stop hoofing it high and play it down the wings instead, where Nouble can work overlaps with Penrice/Montano, allowing Anderson to get himself into the box for balls in from the wings.

Edited December 11, 2023 by LIVIFOREVER

[Freedom Farter]

You don't need an aerial target man to aim long high passes at. For me, movement matters more than physicality. A wee pest is more useful than a static lump. If you remember when Martindale first took over it was long, lofted passes for Scott Robinson to try and feed off which worked well.

[Freedom Farter]

3 hours ago, LIVIFOREVER said:

Alternatively we just stop hoofing it high and play it down the wings instead, where Nouble can work overlaps with Penrice/Montano, allowing Anderson to get himself into the box for balls in from the wings.

This is why I'd play a 3-4-1-2 rather than the 3-4-2-1. With two forwards that allows them to split wide during build up and combine with the advancing wing backs. It'd be ideal for Nouble as his natural preference is to drift into wide spaces anyway.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said:

You don't need an aerial target man to aim long high passes at. For me, movement matters more than physicality. A wee pest is more useful than a static lump. If you remember when Martindale first took over it was long, lofted passes for Scott Robinson to try and feed off which worked well.

Yep, but we'd need to get balls into the channels for Anderson to chase, and opposition defenders having to run after it too, even when Anderson is chasing behind the defender he puts pressure on them and can nick the ball. But when he's static and a defender is behind him waiting on a high ball, it's easy to defend, towering over Anderson.

Guthrie wins most of those high balls, but against St Mirren they just man marked Anderson, knowing if he was taken out the game Guthrie's flick ons would be easily mopped up.

[LIVIFOREVER]

1 hour ago, Freedom Farter said:

This is why I'd play a 3-4-1-2 rather than the 3-4-2-1. With two forwards that allows them to split wide during build up and combine with the advancing wing backs. It'd be ideal for Nouble as his natural preference is to drift into wide spaces anyway.

Yep, best game i've seen us play this season was against Hibs at Easter rd, when Nouble and Penrice worked together getting Penners down the wing and getting it across into the box. 

[flood]

On 10/12/2023 at 22:06, hoobahabba said:

You can crow all you want about us not being a "proper club" but, if we're going to play that game, do you not think your set up at Rugby Park is one of the more embarrassing ones in the Premiership? I mean who in their right mind thought an 18,000 seater stadium would be appropriate for Killie? At least we have the SPFL to blame for our oversized stadium. And, even after spending money to swap capacity for office space, your crowd today was noticeably sparse. I don't know why you insist on restricting Celtic to that one stand when you have so many empty seats. Is that what a proper club does? Or one that would rather pretend to be one of the big boys than act in their own best interests?

Congratulations on the result. I, for one, enjoy seeing teams punch above their weight. Especially when it's against one of the Old Firm. But, f**k me, have a think about your own club's inadequacies before you make such snobbish remarks.

When Rugby Park was upgraded in our first year back in the top league in the mid 90’s our average crowd was around 10000. Why would we plan to build a ground with a smaller capacity? The mistake we made was cramming in too many seats. A stadium with 30% more room would maybe have led to a capacity of 13-14000? Maybe a more reasonable number

We restrict the old firm fans to one stand to allow our home fans feel safer, as when they had two at both ends it was intimidating for our home fans. The club listened to our fans and the atmosphere at game end is certainly better. Good to see St Mirren follow suit and ew dont miss out financially as more home fans buy tickets for family stand( who maybe still do not attend OF games)