phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Where does this fact that 'the appeal was lodged at 4.50pm come from? Because I can assure you it was done before this time or I must have time travelled whilst being told the appeal had been lodged earlier at the stadium & getting home again & putting the info on Livilions. Who said 4.50pm was when the appeal was lodged? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Where does this fact that 'the appeal was lodged at 4.50pm come from? Because I can assure you it was done before this time or I must have time travelled whilst being told the appeal had been lodged earlier at the stadium & getting home again & putting the info on Livilions. Who said 4.50pm was when the appeal was lodged? Ok I'll re-word it to "when knowledge of the appeal, and decision not to fulfil the fixture at East Stirling, became public knowledge" B). That happened at 4:50pm... go back through here and look at the explosion of posts about it. Go and look on LiviLions about it. That was when the radio began carrying news about it. I don't care when some fax machine was warmed up, Livingston did everything imagineable to frustrate and confuse the fans preparing for today's SFL fixtures. I've been battling Livi's corner on this for a long time... (you shouldn't have been demoted - you shouldn't have been wagon-rolled over making appeals - you shouldn't be expelled for scratching from a scheduled game). But FFS, Livi are doing little to make anyone want to argue your case... Livi stuck up a carefully-worded statement, just before close-of-business, which alluded to (but did not actually state categorically) that you'd appealled and weren't turning up v East Stirlingshire... Edited August 8, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Ok I'll re-word it to "when knowledge of the appeal, and decision not to fulfil the fixture at East Stirling, became public knowledge" B) . That happened at 4:50pm... go back through here and look at the explosion of posts about it. Go and look on LiviLions about it. That was when the radio began carrying news about it. I don't care when some fax machine was warmed up, Livingston did everything imagineable to frustrate and confuse the fans preparing for today's SFL fixtures.I've been battling Livi's corner on this for a long time... (you shouldn't have been demoted - you shouldn't have been wagon-rolled over making appeals - you shouldn't be expelled for scratching from a scheduled game). But FFS, Livi are doing little to make anyone want to argue your case... Livi stuck up a carefully-worded statement, just before close-of-business, which alluded to (but did not actually state categorically) that you'd appealled and weren't turning up v East Stirlingshire... That's fine then, but some people are treating the fact that they think it was lodged at that late time as another reason to behead us! forgive me for being defensive but it does get up my goat when they are beating us with a fact that is just not true, & they seem to jump on any little detail right now! What is next? Livi fans to be burned at the stake due to watching the wrong channel on T.V? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 So what will we discuss? there is a lot to choose from after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) That's fine then, but some people are treating the fact that they think it was lodged at that late time as another reason to behead us! forgive me for being defensive but it does get up my goat when they are beating us with a fact that is just not true, & they seem to jump on any little detail right now! What is next? Livi fans to be burned at the stake due to watching the wrong channel on T.V? Scratching from a tie is appalling. As I said before, in the entire history of the Scottish League it has happened 4 times IIRC. Once due to WWI; once due to a player strike; once due to Brechin and Dykehead running out of dates (in a division about to collapse); once due to jiggery-pokery. In the midst of WWI, clubs played games with 9 or 10 players... or played 2 games in a day... to avoid scratching. Players walked 15 miles through snow-storms to avoid scratching. Clubs about to fall into liquidation, begged and borrowed to avoid scratching. So when Livi say they'll happily drive up to Dingwall, but not to Larbert, I find it reprehensible. It is plumbing new depths really. But the punishment should not be expulsion, it should be a huge points fine and strong censure. I've looked at LiviLions again just now, and seriously, your fans need to get a grip. You are not, surely, going to win this appeal. You are then going to get hammered for scratching a game, an offence almost unsurpassed in seriousness within football. Yet the majority of fans seem to be on a kind of upward mood swing: confident of appeal victory, proud of scratching, happy again. If you do win the appeal, then the consequences are equally terrible. Games played which are then annulled. A club which spent 14 years in financial disgrace unpunished (even temporarily). Clubs of the SFL in open rebellion against their own administration. This is damned serious stuff. Edited August 8, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phantoms-livi-lass Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Scratching from a tie is appalling. As I said before, in the entire history of the Scottish League it has happened 4 times IIRC. Once due to WWI; once due to a player strike; once due to Brechin and Dykehead running out of dates (in a division about to collapse); once due to jiggery-pokery.In the midst of WWI, clubs played games with 9 or 10 players... or played 2 games in a day... to avoid scratching. Players walked 15 miles through snow-storms to avoid scratching. Clubs about to fall into liquidation, begged and borrowed to avoid scratching. So when Livi say they'll happily drive up to Dingwall, but not to Larbert, I find it reprehensible. It is plumbing new depths really. But the punishment should not be expulsion, it should be a huge points fine and strong censure. I've looked at LiviLions again just now, and seriously, your fans need to get a grip. You are not, surely, going to win this appeal. You are then going to get hammered for scratching a game, an offence almost unsurpassed in seriousness within football. Yet the majority of fans seem to be on a kind of upward mood swing: confident of appeal victory, proud of scratching, happy again. If you do win the appeal, then the consequences are equally terrible. Games played which are then annulled. A club which spent 14 years in financial disgrace unpunished (even temporarily). Clubs of the SFL in open rebellion against their own administration. This is damned serious stuff. I do realise how serious the whole situation is, & believe me I have not enjoyed one single second of any of it. Today when the games were being played I felt completely depressed & I can only imagine how the East Stirling fans felt for if I was them I'd be raging at our club, it has ruined the start of the season & that can never be replaced. I just hope it is all sorted out as soon as possible to prevent any further problems & without the upset of anyone else. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage Henry Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Where does this fact that 'the appeal was lodged at 4.50pm come from? Because I can assure you it was done before this time or I must have time travelled whilst being told the appeal had been lodged earlier at the stadium & getting home again & putting the info on Livilions. Who said 4.50pm was when the appeal was lodged? Quite correct. The timing (4.50, 3.50, 7.50) is completely besides the point. It's the principle of the thing that is so abhorrent. Withdrawal from a scheduled game is unacceptable and will result in a fifteen point penalty.* *This assumes at least a modicum of consistency from the SFL. Hamilton got the same punishment for arguably a far more just cause. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banjo player Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 So what will we discuss? there is a lot to choose from after all. What was the score at Ochilv... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Master Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Quite correct. The timing (4.50, 3.50, 7.50) is completely besides the point. It's the principle of the thing that is so abhorrent. Withdrawal from a scheduled game is unacceptable and will result in a fifteen point penalty.**This assumes at least a modicum of consistency from the SFL. Hamilton got the same punishment for arguably a far more just cause. As posted by Skyline Drifter on another thread, the only reason Hamilton were deducted 15 points was to put them at the bottom of the league. So it's not as simple as saying there's a precedent of 15 points. All manner of factors come into play. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marty_j Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Scratching from a tie is appalling. As I said before, in the entire history of the Scottish League it has happened 4 times IIRC. Once due to WWI; once due to a player strike; once due to Brechin and Dykehead running out of dates (in a division about to collapse); once due to jiggery-pokery.In the midst of WWI, clubs played games with 9 or 10 players... or played 2 games in a day... to avoid scratching. Players walked 15 miles through snow-storms to avoid scratching. Clubs about to fall into liquidation, begged and borrowed to avoid scratching. So when Livi say they'll happily drive up to Dingwall, but not to Larbert, I find it reprehensible. It is plumbing new depths really. But the punishment should not be expulsion, it should be a huge points fine and strong censure. I've looked at LiviLions again just now, and seriously, your fans need to get a grip. You are not, surely, going to win this appeal. You are then going to get hammered for scratching a game, an offence almost unsurpassed in seriousness within football. Yet the majority of fans seem to be on a kind of upward mood swing: confident of appeal victory, proud of scratching, happy again. If you do win the appeal, then the consequences are equally terrible. Games played which are then annulled. A club which spent 14 years in financial disgrace unpunished (even temporarily). Clubs of the SFL in open rebellion against their own administration. This is damned serious stuff. Excellent post. Any goodwill to this flawed club has surely vanished. Not only have they pissed off their creditors and players whose wages were renaged upon. They have cost people money who were planning this trip. They can blame the SFL all they like and try and detract responsibility but there is NO REASON why they couldn't have fulfilled this game. NO REASON. Even if they won appeal. Which they clearly won't it would have been scrubbed and at the very least it would have been a run out for their players. They have continued to treat Scottish Football with contempt and have done so since their conception at the expense of a decent run club in 95. This is the final straw in a history littered with embarrasements. F*** them. Kick them out and let us wash our hands of this. As Hibee said 14 years of financial disgrace from Hunter to Flynn to Massone. Mcdougall and co look like they are going to fit in nicely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest rockyrooster Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 What day will livi fold? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hen Broon Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 When will you find a more interesting topic. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Scratching from a tie is appalling. As I said before, in the entire history of the Scottish League it has happened 4 times IIRC. Once due to WWI; once due to a player strike; once due to Brechin and Dykehead running out of dates (in a division about to collapse); once due to jiggery-pokery.In the midst of WWI, clubs played games with 9 or 10 players... or played 2 games in a day... to avoid scratching. Players walked 15 miles through snow-storms to avoid scratching. Clubs about to fall into liquidation, begged and borrowed to avoid scratching. So when Livi say they'll happily drive up to Dingwall, but not to Larbert, I find it reprehensible. It is plumbing new depths really. But the punishment should not be expulsion, it should be a huge points fine and strong censure. I've looked at LiviLions again just now, and seriously, your fans need to get a grip. You are not, surely, going to win this appeal. You are then going to get hammered for scratching a game, an offence almost unsurpassed in seriousness within football. Yet the majority of fans seem to be on a kind of upward mood swing: confident of appeal victory, proud of scratching, happy again. If you do win the appeal, then the consequences are equally terrible. Games played which are then annulled. A club which spent 14 years in financial disgrace unpunished (even temporarily). Clubs of the SFL in open rebellion against their own administration. This is damned serious stuff. HJ, this won't be decided on normal legal reasoning, foootball decisions never are. We asked the SFA to look at something and without speaking to any of the people involved the SFA decided it "could not be proved and the case was closed" Oh really? The case was subsequently thoroughly investigated by the police and found by a sheriff to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Scottish football administration at the SFA and SFL is an absolute joke. I'm pleased that we are in the EoS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djn Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 I give it 20 minutes before this thread is merged/closed. It'll still be here by Tuesday I reckon - the Third Division Forum is like The Land The Mods Forgot... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WJR Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 As posted by Skyline Drifter on another thread, the only reason Hamilton were deducted 15 points was to put them at the bottom of the league. So it's not as simple as saying there's a precedent of 15 points. All manner of factors come into play. Gretna getting relegated was not setting any precedent either. It was to avoid the same fixture pish we are looking at now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacWatt Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Given the wide discretionary powers enjoyed by the SFL Managment Committee and the imprecise nature of the SFL Rules, I can see no possible grounds on which an appeal would succeed. They could of course be banking on the sympathy of a majority of the SFL clubs to overturn the (reasonable)decision to relegate them. I see no evidence to suggest that this is the case either. What exactly is McGruther and the Nomadic McDougall and Rankbadyin playing at? The only benefit that can accrue from this action is presumably to McGruther alone as he will be racking up his fees by the minute and he gets paid first before the creditors. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay Silverheels Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Donald McGruther after hearing the SFL had demoted Livingston to the Third Division. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibeeJibee Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) HJ, this won't be decided on normal legal reasoning, foootball decisions never are. We asked the SFA to look at something and without speaking to any of the people involved the SFA decided it "could not be proved and the case was closed"Oh really? The case was subsequently thoroughly investigated by the police and found by a sheriff to be proved beyond reasonable doubt. Scottish football administration at the SFA and SFL is an absolute joke. I'm pleased that we are in the EoS. This is true WJR . Btw I simply cannot see the appeal succeeding, regardless of the legalities - it requires 15 out of 28 voting clubs to oppose their own Management Committee, which surely will not happen - especially as it was the MC reacting to criticism from its own clubs for being too lenient...!! Yes, the rules are in a total mess more broadly... Stirling University in 2008-09 - played an ineligible player in an EOS Div 1 match, but the SFA changed their sentence... to a suspended one when every other time it's resulted in -3 points? Or in the Juniors (I can't remember the clubs), a protest about an ineligible player in a Cup Final is thrown out because the original and duplicate letters of protest were sent to the wrong 2 bodies - in another case, thrown out as they hadn't been hand signed... Not to mention a catalogue of different registrations/statuses (as Dean Hoskins knows too well!!). Perhaps Mr McLeish can make rulebook reform and reconstruction another priority of his review... Edited August 8, 2009 by HibeeJibee 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedV Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 Perhaps because you are a notorious P&B troll who spends far more time writing about every other club bar your own - the usual sign of a right wee shitstirrer. In short, a grand total of 629 posts in the space of 2 months! How many about Morton? One comment in passing in an Old Firm thread. That's it. For a supposed "Morton fan", you do spend an incredible amount of time over on the thread reserved for the Old Firm lowlifes to argybargy... http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=112402&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111774&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=112137&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=109662&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111490&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110994&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111522&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110563&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111067&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110812&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110521&st= Ironically you posted : http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...p;#entry3593831 regarding what P&B members you would not like to meet, "Any three Rangers fans and any two Celtic fans. I don't enjoy spending time with embittered bigots." Which doubtlessly explained why over half your posts in the last two months have been...erm...over at the Old Firm threads (the percentage would be even higher if we took out your multiple Livingston fan baiting here) Or taunting St Mirren like a f**king 5 year old... http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111874&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=109558&st= Or Aberdeen... http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111670&hl= Or Falkirk http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111344&hl= "I'm on Falkirk TV. What a shite home support." or just jumping into any old fight over on the Nonsense board where you can get attention to yourself (mostly about religion and sectarianism...oooo, just like those Old Firm supporters on their thread...there's a surprise!). http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111919&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111576&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...c=84645&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111574&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111532&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111311&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111311&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111124&hl= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=111022&st= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110368&st= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110888&st= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110831&st= http://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/index.ph...=110228&st= So to recap, the evidence is that you are a troll. And I'm far from the first to have said this, am I Jesus H Christ. That may well be the most tragic post on this site ever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam68+1 Posted August 8, 2009 Share Posted August 8, 2009 (edited) Livi were correct to do refuse to play in the 3rd divisoon. Airdrie were in administration for years and we went through all the crap with Steve Archibald before the SFL got to grips. A10 or 15 point deduction would have been enough. Edited August 8, 2009 by Sam68+1 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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